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Draco18s
QUOTE (Kyrel @ Aug 13 2013, 10:20 AM) *
If one group enjoys to play a bunch of superheroes^2, IMO it's not the role of the game to tell that group that they can't do that.


Go play a different game. There are systems built specifically to cater to those kinds of games.
Psion (play a god-child). It even has three different core books for three different levels of play: Hero (i.e. Xena*), Demigod (i.e. Hercules), and God (i.e. Zeus).
GURPS (supports fuckall and then some)
Marvel Heros
Heroclix

*Debatable example. Hercules is clearly demigod, as per the definition ("half-god"), so its hard to find a good "hero" example.

QUOTE
As for what you specifically mention:

You can only have 35 BP worth of positive qualities. - Pointless limit IMO. If you want to spend 100BP on positive qualities, that's 100BP you aren't spending on something else.
You can only have 35 BP worth of negative qualities. - Fair enough that you can only get a bonus of up to 35BP, but feel free to take more if you want them for character reasons.


Both of these limits exist in almost all game systems. There are only so many flaws you can take before the character becomes unplayable, unrealistic, or a bane to the group as a whole ("so wait, you are Hunted, have an Archenemy, and your a clone, AND your a blind quadriplegic? Not only do you have three separate 'big bad' level entities after you, you have no ability to defend yourself.")

QUOTE
You can only raise one skill to 6, or two to 5, the rest must be 4. - Pointless limit IMO.
Skill groups cannot be raised above 4 (see above). - Pointless limit IMO.


Enjoy having no room to grow. You're already to the best there ever was. Thought about retirement yet?

QUOTE
You cannot have more than 6 essence worth of implants. - Pure game balance issue. Fiddly to deal with on top of that. Drop it IMO. If someone wants to play a cyborg, let 'em. And no, I have no problem with the cybered up mage either.
A skill can not be augmented more than 1.5 times its natural rating. - I'd probably modify it a bit, but I can find a good in-game explanation for such a limit. After all, you can only press the human(oid) body so far, regardless of the augmentation, and there is only so much you can get a piece of machinery to do.


You can only press the human body so far, but doing so doesn't harm your ability to be a magic-slinging demigod? Weren't we already playing Magicrun?

QUOTE
I'll ignore the rest of your list, as it's related to a different sort of game, from what I can immediately determine.


Several other systems, actually. GURPS and D&D being notable.
apple
QUOTE (tjn @ Aug 12 2013, 03:53 AM) *
I need a system that allows me, with a single book to share with three or four players, to guide everyone to create characters, together, in roughly an hour.


Its called "use the archetypes" or "use BP with predefined equipment lists" - because spending 250 000 or 450 000 or 1 000 000 ¥ takes time, not spending 1 Point of 40 or 10 of 400 or 2 of 120.

SYL
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Aug 12 2013, 06:44 PM) *
The real issue here is that you're trying to recreate an advanced character, one who has a lot of equivalent experience in a similar profession to shadowrunning, with the rules for basic player characters. Of course you're going to see a very hard time making an appropriately skilled character when you're building a Prime Runner equivalent with the base character creation system.


You really are not (trying to create an advanced character), though... I have made very skilled characters with Karmagen (with total skills approaching 50 skills total), and they cover all the bases. The trick is to not go crazy with what you think the numbers SHOULD mean. Go with the descriptors, and you will generally be fine. In my case, in SR4A, I aimed for a 3-4 Skill Rank (generally 3's suffice) in my Primary Skills, assuming I had some time in on those skills (Professional to Veteran). Everything else was a 2 or less. Most players want there Primary Skills to be 5's and 6's (if not 7+), in my experience, and then forget to make allowances for the necessary support skills to backup the concept. Once those skills are 6's, then there are not enough points to spread around to the support skills, and then you get unlikely combinations of attributes and skills not working right, because they maxed some, dumpstatted others, and generally overvalued the skills. Keep the numbers where they should be, descriptively, and then you have far fewer problems.
Kyrel
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 13 2013, 05:59 PM) *
Go play a different game. There are systems built specifically to cater to those kinds of games.
Psion (play a god-child). It even has three different core books for three different levels of play: Hero (i.e. Xena*), Demigod (i.e. Hercules), and God (i.e. Zeus).
GURPS (supports fuckall and then some)
Marvel Heros
Heroclix


Yes there are, and I'd recommend those games to those who like to play that kind of game too. They are not my preference though. I prefer my characters to have weaknesses and not be "gods". I don't need artificially imposed limits in the game to limit myself, and if players at another table prefer to play as a bunch of "superhumans", and have fun playing that way, who am I or the game designers to say that they shouldn't be allowed to do so, short of the GM at their table telling them to ignore all the character creation rules in the game.

QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 13 2013, 05:59 PM) *
Both of these limits exist in almost all game systems. There are only so many flaws you can take before the character becomes unplayable, unrealistic, or a bane to the group as a whole ("so wait, you are Hunted, have an Archenemy, and your a clone, AND your a blind quadriplegic? Not only do you have three separate 'big bad' level entities after you, you have no ability to defend yourself.")


Yes they do. But let's agree to ignore blatantly idiocy like that, and concentrate on players who make playable characters. But would you think that the unaugmented non-magic using character with Toughness, Guts, Made Man, School of Hard Knocks, Black Market Pipeline and a couple of levels of Tough as Nails, as well as Vendetta, Dependents, Prejudiced, and Poor Selfcontrol would be overpowered or unplayable?

QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 13 2013, 05:59 PM) *
Enjoy having no room to grow. You're already to the best there ever was. Thought about retirement yet?


That's my problem, not the game designers. Besides, am I really likely to have maxed out every single skill and attribute available? Not likely, unless I'm playing a game with about 100.000 karma (or similar idiocy) for character generation.

QUOTE (Draco18s @ Aug 13 2013, 05:59 PM) *
You can only press the human body so far, but doing so doesn't harm your ability to be a magic-slinging demigod? Weren't we already playing Magicrun?


I can't speak for you, but no. Neither I nor the friends I play with play "Magicrun". This is an issue with the magic system though, not the character design rules.


Let's agree Draco18s that you and I are unlikely to agree on this issue of game design. You obviously care more about game balance than I do, and you obviously don't have any problems with the limits the game imposes on your character creation process, whereas I dislike them. Not because I like to create grotesk, overpowered and hyper-optimized characters, but simply because I dislike them on general principle. Regardless, the OP asked what people had against the Priority System. I simply intended to answer that question.

/Kyrel
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Kyrel @ Aug 13 2013, 01:10 PM) *
Would you think that the unaugmented non-magic using character with Toughness, Guts, Made Man, School of Hard Knocks, Black Market Pipeline and a couple of levels of Tough as Nails, as well as Vendetta, Dependents, Prejudiced, and Poor Selfcontrol would be overpowered or unplayable?
/Kyrel


Sounds like an interesting character... As long as his attributes and skills were not all whacked out, and actually made some semblance of sense...
Sadly, not something you can create out of Character Generation without permission (and the acquisition of a few negative qualities for no cost benefit). frown.gif
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