Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Projectile Lynchpins
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
Umidori
So with the new Alchemy system in SR5, a character concept I've long wanted to try out becomes much easier, thanks to Alchemical Preparations operating very similarly to the old Anchoring Metamagics, but without being unavailable at chargen, and without being impeded by Object Resistance. Consequently, I'm currently working on building an Aspected Magician who uses pistol rounds as the lynchpins for his preparations, and I've got a few questions.

First, is this legal?

I can't find anything in the rules restricting what things can become lynchpins, other than the fact that they cannot have living auras. So if I want to, can I use a Heavy Pistol round as a Lynchpin for, say, a Contact Trigger "Shatter" Preparation? Would this work how I imagine it must, namely that upon successfully striking an opponent with the round (specifically a living opponent because of how a contact trigger works), it deals damage as normal, and then activates the preparation it contains to deal further damage?

Second, what happens if I prepare an Indirect Combat Spell but give it a Contact Trigger?

Say, a "Flamethrower" preparation? Does the bullet hit, deal damage, and then immediately after shoot a blast of fire at the struck foe? According to RAW, they would be able to attempt to dodge the flame jet emanating from the bullet lodged in their shoulder, which sounds hilarious. On the topic of a more practical concern, does this second "attack" impose or increment the standard "Defender has defended against previous attack" negative modifier?

Third, how would you handle Manipulation Spells that require a caster's input?

Do you, as the preparation creator, default to the spell "controller"? Do the effects of these preparations entirely rely upon the creator's input at the time of their activation, or can you maybe preprogram "commands" into the preparation? For example, if you tag someone with a "Levitation" preparation that they fail to resist, can it just automatically lift them straight upwards for as long as the effect is sustained, regardless of your own personal commands, or even line of sight? After all, it's the preparation creating the spell effect, not you. The rules already make it clear that the preparation is the thing sustaining an effect like this (becoming dual-natured while doing so), so why shouldn't it also be the thing controlling the effect, and the thing with which line of sight needs to be maintained?

It'd be hilarious to shoot someone with a holdout pistol and have them just start soaring upward into the sky for a few combat turns while you turn your attention to other matters, and then when the preparation's effect wears off they fall the same distance and go splat. The downside would be that, being preprogrammed, the effect can't be changed to suit a situation. So levitating someone straight up indoors would be only mildly troublesome for them, compared to maybe levitating them out a window first which a mage can normally do with the actual spell. Additionally, if line of sight between the target of the effect and the initial point of "casting" was broken, the effect would end. So if the guy your preparation is levitating flies upward into a clothes line and gets wrapped in a blanket because you weren't able to levitate him around it manually, the line of sight between him and the "casting point" would be broken and the effect would end prematurely.

How about a "Control Actions" preparation that the target fails to resist? Can it simply automatically force them to drop whatever they're holding, squat down, flap their arms, and cluck like a chicken? You could even require the preparation to "spend a Complex Action" to effectively "command" the victim to perform this action, forcing it to wait until the next Action Phase to actually activate the power, as a Mage would have to do. Sure, it saves you from having to take an Action commanding it yourself, but at the cost of not being able to adapt the command being made to the situation at hand, and at the cost of the considerable difficulty of creating such a preparation compared to casting an equivalent spell.

~Umi
Vicar
Love this idea, and I might have to try it out on a character.

The only two concerns I have are:

1) how effective it would actually be in-combat. There really isn't any way to see this short of just playing.

2) The abysmally short amount of time preparations are effective. Potency x2 hours should be enough for a run, I guess, but it also puts a hard limit (other than the drain you've potentially inflicted on yourself before ever going on the run) on how many bullets you can prepare. I guess you'd just have to not miss. Ever.
Lobo0705
Umidori,

I read somewhere (so take it for what it is worth) that they were going to have an errata that made bullets (and anything else that would be destroyed upon use) unable to be used as lynchpins.

Of course, I cannot find it anywhere now frown.gif We will see if that actually happens.

This of course doesn't help with your other questions, which are still applicable if you use a throwing knife as your lynchpin.
Vicar
QUOTE (Lobo0705 @ Aug 13 2013, 07:48 AM) *
I read somewhere (so take it for what it is worth) that they were going to have an errata that made bullets (and anything else that would be destroyed upon use) unable to be used as lynchpins.


First, that f'ing sucks if true. Second, that also goes against the example in the book on p.305, where the example character makes a preparation out of a glass sphere (presumably to be thrown, like a grenade).
Repulse
If that is true, at least arrows, crossbow bolts, and gas grenades could still be used. How about a tear gas grenade with fireball effect triggered a second or two after the initial gas discharge, igniting the previously discharged gas...
Vicar
In thinking more about the possibility of this, I am increasingly bothered by it. If the idea is only "destroyed" items, then could I not prepare, specifically, the lead part of the bullet? I know that with caseless ammo it's difficult to separate the two (bullet and propellant) because the propellant is wrapped around the bullet, but that isn't true with cased ammo. Or, could I prepare the bullet, and then handload it into a cartridge? But then you'd be taking even more of the potencyx2 hours time limit.

Grr.
Repulse
Vicar,

Hand loading a bullet into a cartridge (assuming the cartridge is already setup with powder, charge, etc) only takes 5-10 seconds per bullet. You could use a full metal Jacket (AP) that would most likely not be destroyed upon impact. So, I don't see any time related problems with this wink.gif
Skynet
Depends on how much damage the lynchpin can sustain before it ceases functioning (think rifle-threading).
Also I found the contact trigger somewhat...unstable: the next living being to touch the lynchpin activates it. What counts as touching and when is it considered to be 'armed'. Does clothing protect from triggering it or ist touching the aura enough (as with touch-range spells)? Loading your gun with a pair of tongs is going to slow things down a bit wink.gif
HugeC
QUOTE (Vicar @ Aug 13 2013, 08:52 AM) *
First, that f'ing sucks if true. Second, that also goes against the example in the book on p.305, where the example character makes a preparation out of a glass sphere (presumably to be thrown, like a grenade).

What I don't get is, how is he going to throw that sphere without touching it? Edit: Oh, maybe that's a command trigger?

For magic bullets, putting touch range combat spells on them seems to be the intent. Use a revolver and enchant the bullets in-chamber so you don't have to touch them afterwards.

As for the bullet being destroyed, that doesn't happen until after it makes contact, so the preparation will go off first, then then bullet would deal its damage and get all squished up. At least, that's what would make sense to me. I can see why they might not want that from a game balance perspective, though.

As for who controls a contact trigger effect in cases where it isn't obvious, the rules don't say. I'd say it's the toucher. Imagine drinking a potion of Levitate or Physical Mask; you'd expect to be the one controlling the effect. So a magic bullet of Levitate probably wouldn't work the way you want it to. You'd need to invent a Reverse Gravity spell and have it be Touch range.
Vicar
QUOTE (HugeC @ Aug 13 2013, 09:20 AM) *
I can see why they might not want that from a game balance perspective, though.

You might be right about this, but I'd think the possibility of going into a firefight with a bunch of stun damage already applied from drain would be enough to balance it. But then, I haven't actually played the concept, so I don't know if it actually balances or not.

I've definitely gotta play around with this though. I love the idea of a Combat Alchemist wielding a Ruger Super Warhawk, and his first load of 6 shots being magic bullets.
HugeC
QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 13 2013, 05:16 AM) *
Second, what happens if I prepare an Indirect Combat Spell but give it a Contact Trigger?

I think I'd just use the same Reaction + Intuition roll used to defend against the attack as the resistance roll for the spell's effect. Less fiddly than rolling twice. Same thing for indirect combat spells with Touch range. I think RAW you're supposed to make another roll, though.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Vicar @ Aug 13 2013, 07:52 AM) *
First, that f'ing sucks if true.


Why? The Problem is that a Contact trigger will set off when you load the round into its magazine, when the round is chambered, and when it is immediately fired and it contacts the barrel (all those have actual contact in them, and, if aura contact is mandatory, loading the round either into the gun or the magazine counts as aura contact). So, no, I do not see this as viable. wobble.gif
Skynet
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 13 2013, 08:28 PM) *
Why? The Problem is that a Contact trigger will set off when you load the round into its magazine, when the round is chambered, and when it is immediately fired and it contacts the barrel (all those have actual contact in them, and, if aura contact is mandatory, loading the round either into the gun or the magazine counts as aura contact). So, no, I do not see this as viable. wobble.gif


QUOTE (CHOOSE PREPARATION TRIGGER, p. 305)
Contact: The next living being to touch the preparation activates the spell.


I wouldn't consider gun-parts as living beings (unless you have a really strange weapon).
(And objects don't have auras alltogether.)
Umidori
The thing about asuming that what matters is the aura (which is not actually stated in the rules) is that if it is, then you should be able to designate triggering auras in the way you used to be able to with Anchoring.

Personally, it would make the most sense if the preparation creator was immune to setting off a Contact Trigger, because it is specifically stated that to prepare a lynchpin you have to be able to pick it up and handle it. If a Contact tTrigger goes off from your own aura, the preparation would go off in your hand the minute you completed the preparation.

~Umi
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Skynet @ Aug 13 2013, 11:45 AM) *
I wouldn't consider gun-parts as living beings (unless you have a really strange weapon).
(And objects don't have auras alltogether.)


Ummm...Loading the weapon or clip requires a living being... smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 13 2013, 12:29 PM) *
The thing about asuming that what matters is the aura (which is not actually stated in the rules) is that if it is, then you should be able to designate triggering auras in the way you used to be able to with Anchoring.

Personally, it would make the most sense if the preparation creator was immune to setting off a Contact Trigger, because it is specifically stated that to prepare a lynchpin you have to be able to pick it up and handle it. If a Contact tTrigger goes off from your own aura, the preparation would go off in your hand the minute you completed the preparation.

~Umi


Yes, indeed it would, but that is RAW, is it not?
Sendaz
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 13 2013, 04:21 PM) *
Ummm...Loading the weapon or clip requires a living being... smile.gif

That's what the robo-butler is for. nyahnyah.gif
shinryu
despite some asinine protests otherwise in other corners of the internet, i maintain bullets ain't rounds and arrowheads ain't arrows, so if you prepare the one part of the item you can touch the rest of the object just fine if you're careful. or, hey, contact preparations in old lightbulbs. if it turns out to be some bullshit "aura contact" official rule i'm officially going to be pissed off.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Aug 13 2013, 01:22 PM) *
That's what the robo-butler is for. nyahnyah.gif


Assuming you have one... But then again, what self respecting Mage wouldn't... They have nothing else to spend their money on, right? wobble.gif
Lobo0705
I have some issues with this - mostly because of the multitude of questions that come up because of how many different ways this can be used.

Here is a concrete example of how this works:

I cast Punch at Force 7 with a Contact Trigger on a bullet. I have an Alchemy 6, which a specialization in Contact Triggers, and a Magic of 6, so I roll 14 dice opposed by 7. On average I am rolling 3 or so net hits. If I fail, no worries, because I am taking 2DV worth of drain (Force-6 +1 for trigger), and so unless I roll TERRIBLY I will take no damage. I spend 2 hours or so prepping, and now I have about 20 rounds of ammunition that will be good for about 6 hours.

When I shoot someone (Let's say I use gel rounds as the lynchpin) I roll to hit as normal, and then on top of whatever stun damage they take, I now roll Potency (3) + Force (7) vs their Willpower - which for most people is around a 3-4. That means I'm getting a couple extra successes, and therefore a couple extra points of damage on that hit.

Seems pretty straightforward - here come the questions:

What happens when I fire a burst? Does that mean that they get hit with 3 spells? How about Full Auto - would it be 10 spells?
Can I use narcojet rounds as a lynchpin? Does that mean they then take the stun from the toxin and then the spell?
How about a throwing knife coated in toxin, with a physical spell on it?
Can I load the bullets into someone else's gun, and they can use it?

That is just with basic touch combat spell. That doesn't count all the other ways this can be used.

Umidori
I can only answer one of those questions definitively!

No, you cannot load the bullets into someone else's gun. For some reason, only the person who creates a preparation can use it. (At least I think that's the case, I have to rush out the door and can't check my book!)

~Umi
Sendaz
QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 13 2013, 05:02 PM) *
I can only answer one of those questions definitively!

No, you cannot load the bullets into someone else's gun. For some reason, only the person who creates a preparation can use it. (At least I think that's the case, I have to rush out the door and can't check my book!)

~Umi

Heh, makes for fun security. Someone else grabs your gun and the preps go off. nyahnyah.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Aug 13 2013, 03:09 PM) *
Heh, makes for fun security. Someone else grabs your gun and the preps go off. nyahnyah.gif


Which would definitely suck... wobble.gif
Voran
Gene Starwind approves.
CanRay
I want a gun that shoots swords, which explode. Into three more swords. That also explode. biggrin.gif
Flaser
QUOTE (Voran @ Aug 14 2013, 01:17 AM) *
Gene Starwind approves.

Magus Killer, Emiya Kiritsugu seconds. Nothing sweeter than killing an uppity, holier than though mage with a weapon they thought can't touch them.

All in all I don't think magical bullets should be banned, you just need some specific drawbacks to them that make 'em your "extra silver special" for those "hard nights" instead SOP.
Slide
Umi there is nothing about what you wrote that I don't like. I'm going to be running around with throwing knives of levitate biggrin.gif
HugeC
QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 13 2013, 04:02 PM) *
I can only answer one of those questions definitively!

No, you cannot load the bullets into someone else's gun. For some reason, only the person who creates a preparation can use it. (At least I think that's the case, I have to rush out the door and can't check my book!)

~Umi

Contact triggers go off when they contact a living being. The circumstances of this contact are irrelevant, so if someone else picks up your revolver loaded with magic bullets, they work the same for them as they would for you. If you are using Command triggers, then yeah, only the creator can set them off.
shinryu
if by some dipshit ruling magic arrowheads go away (kinda on the fence with magic bullets, honestly), may i suggest the obvious alternative for contact preparations?

ping-pong ball guns.

ping-pong ball small, workable with hands? check. you can probably get 'em in some minimally processed magic friendly composition. write your angry curse on them and pop pop your death touches away. can't argue these get destroyed on impact, can you?

too much object resistance in ping pong balls? only one solution then. potato gun.

please don't make me trade my crossbow or my revolver for a potato gun, catalyst. seriously, please don't.
RHat
QUOTE (Vicar @ Aug 13 2013, 06:52 AM) *
First, that f'ing sucks if true. Second, that also goes against the example in the book on p.305, where the example character makes a preparation out of a glass sphere (presumably to be thrown, like a grenade).


I believe the idea is that your preparation is damaged, and thus rendered useless, before it reaches the target. A line of reasoning that should still leave arrowheads open for this use...
Flaser
QUOTE (RHat @ Aug 14 2013, 02:15 AM) *
I believe the idea is that your preparation is damaged, and thus rendered useless, before it reaches the target. A line of reasoning that should still leave arrowheads open for this use...


Just use rounds with a penetrator core... this makes creating magic bullets even more complicated, but that might not be such a bad thing in this case.
shinryu
subsonic bullets might be another option; i'm not sure how much they deform on impact if the material is hard enough, but there's a reasonable chance that they could remain sufficiently intact. this would limit you to pistols for the most part, of course.

the problem i'm worried about with arrowheads is people claiming that just combining an arrowhead and an arrow makes a new, composite object such that the entire arrow is now the preparation. this is dumb, but until catalyst officially rules i can't help but worry that these people are technically correct in catalyst's eyes. that would be bad.

oh, and then there's the problem of what constitutes "contact", and supposedly not being able to set command preparations off the same initiative pass on which you throw or shoot them at someone since that's two "attack actions." of course, you could have someone else or a drone do it or do it with any other kind of preparation and that's fine, but it's also stupid and screws up some otherwise interesting concepts. i want to be a ninja master alchemist, goddammit.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (shinryu @ Aug 13 2013, 05:55 PM) *
subsonic bullets might be another option; i'm not sure how much they deform on impact if the material is hard enough, but there's a reasonable chance that they could remain sufficiently intact. this would limit you to pistols for the most part, of course.

the problem i'm worried about with arrowheads is people claiming that just combining an arrowhead and an arrow makes a new, composite object such that the entire arrow is now the preparation. this is dumb, but until catalyst officially rules i can't help but worry that these people are technically correct in catalyst's eyes. that would be bad.

oh, and then there's the problem of what constitutes "contact", and supposedly not being able to set command preparations off the same initiative pass on which you throw or shoot them at someone since that's two "attack actions." of course, you could have someone else or a drone do it or do it with any other kind of preparation and that's fine, but it's also stupid and screws up some otherwise interesting concepts. i want to be a ninja master alchemist, goddammit.


I play a Oni Ninja Alchemist... He uses Magical Compounds. cool.gif
Umidori
QUOTE (Voran @ Aug 13 2013, 04:17 PM) *
Gene Starwind approves.

Praise of the highest order.

Now we just need to have an Adventure that takes place on a hot springs planet.

~Umi
Vicar
QUOTE (Lobo0705 @ Aug 13 2013, 02:56 PM) *
What happens when I fire a burst? Does that mean that they get hit with 3 spells? How about Full Auto - would it be 10 spells?

I'd have to say no to both of these, and the only reason I do is because of the way Shadowrun handles bursts, which isn't that the opponent gets hit with three bullets, but rather that there's a greater chance to be hit with one bullet (by decreasing his defense): "With more shots going downrange they increase the chance that a bullet will hit." p.179

I'm not sure I agree with those rules, but they do make the game a lot faster to play.
Umidori
Yeah, I kinda agree with Vicar, at least concerning SR5. Anchored Spells in SR4 would be trickier to figure out, but I never actually managed to pull that character concept off.

~Umi
Mäx
Well the tricky question comes in if those 10 bullets have fireball with command trigger, are you or are you not allowed to trigger them all on your next turn cool.gif
Vicar
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 14 2013, 06:12 AM) *
Well the tricky question comes in if those 10 bullets have fireball with command trigger, are you or are you not allowed to trigger them all on your next turn cool.gif

Can't do it. First, it takes a simple action to trigger, so at the most 2 per turn. Second, you need line of sight to the preparation, which by the time of "next turn" the bullets themselves are away to hell and gone. "But I shoot them into the ceiling above his head." Fine. But you still can't see them.

Plus it probably constitutes an attack, in which case you can only trigger 1 per turn. And not on the same turn that you shoot.
The Overlord
While I would be hesitant to allow the use of alchemy on bullets given their size, bolts and arrows would be just fine. I already have built a mystic adept archer who uses magic arrows.
Repulse
How about using a command trigger on the gel from gel packs used in an Ares S-III Super Squirt, when they hit the target, the gel isnt "destroyed" and it is still in LoS, not to mention already delivering its payload, etc.
shinryu
i had thought along these lines too, but there are two potential "official" problems with this:

1) the ridiculous "you can't activate a preparation the same round you shoot it" crap, if that becomes official.

2) defining what a lynchpin is and what destroyed means. if the lynchpin is the gel pack, i can see how someone might argue it is "destroyed" on impact, plus object resistance of god knows what to enchant the fucker in the first place. on the other hand, if you can make a quasi-liquid preparation (i'm thinking a thick gooey paste here) out of leaves and twigs or whatever, enchant that and load it in a gel pack, now we're in business. i don't see anything in the rules preventing making preparations out of doughy substances, as it says you can "work materials into the lynchpin" as part of the ritual. sounds a lot like a mortar and pestle to me.

as far as burst fire, i think the limiting factor for that is that you'd have to enchant all the bullets, which is a lot of time and potentially risk with powerful spells. otherwise, i think the gm would be well within his rights to roll randomly and see if it was actually the lynchpin that hit the target or not. i think you could also argue that command spells wouldn't work in a gun, as i doubt even mages have the reflexes to trigger the spell right as the bullet hits. contact spells? well, i mean, if the lynchpin is the bullet then it's technically intact on "contact", so i think that might fly. also, come on, magic revolver gunslinger alchemist? that's so perfect...

tymeaus:
i'm curious how you're rolling with the ninja alchemist. my schtick was going to be punch on shuriken, since you can dial up a force 7 or 8 punch spell for cheap and have a good chance of going through armor/spirits and similar. if that "can't activate on same phase" thing is true, the whole idea is a lot less attractive to me.
Skynet
QUOTE (shinryu @ Aug 14 2013, 06:24 PM) *
i had thought along these lines too, but there are two potential "official" problems with this:

1) the ridiculous "you can't activate a preparation the same round you shoot it" crap, if that becomes official.

2) defining what a lynchpin is and what destroyed means. if the lynchpin is the gel pack, i can see how someone might argue it is "destroyed" on impact, plus object resistance of god knows what to enchant the fucker in the first place. on the other hand, if you can make a quasi-liquid preparation (i'm thinking a thick gooey paste here) out of leaves and twigs or whatever, enchant that and load it in a gel pack, now we're in business. i don't see anything in the rules preventing making preparations out of doughy substances, as it says you can "work materials into the lynchpin" as part of the ritual. sounds a lot like a mortar and pestle to me.

as far as burst fire, i think the limiting factor for that is that you'd have to enchant all the bullets, which is a lot of time and potentially risk with powerful spells. otherwise, i think the gm would be well within his rights to roll randomly and see if it was actually the lynchpin that hit the target or not. i think you could also argue that command spells wouldn't work in a gun, as i doubt even mages have the reflexes to trigger the spell right as the bullet hits. contact spells? well, i mean, if the lynchpin is the bullet then it's technically intact on "contact", so i think that might fly. also, come on, magic revolver gunslinger alchemist? that's so perfect...

tymeaus:
i'm curious how you're rolling with the ninja alchemist. my schtick was going to be punch on shuriken, since you can dial up a force 7 or 8 punch spell for cheap and have a good chance of going through armor/spirits and similar. if that "can't activate on same phase" thing is true, the whole idea is a lot less attractive to me.


Since that is already the second time it has come up: Object resistance is irrelevant for alchemical preparations (explicitly stated so even). (The lynchpin isn't enchanted, it just acts as the anchor, similar to setting up a ward.)
shinryu
oh, hot happy damn, this is what i get for taking the word of "demo team members" and not reading the actual passage. screw you, official forums! carbon steel arrowheads with punch spells all day for you bitches!

and hey, you know what? if i can't activate spells on the same IP, don't care now! stick and shock! electrocution first pass, spell damage on the second pass. can't say the "lynchpin was destroyed" when it's deployed and stuck to the target in an intact fashion. i hate stick and shock with a passion. but this would be worth it if i had to do it that way.
Sendaz
So S&S&S (Stick & Shock & Spell) ? biggrin.gif
shinryu
yeah, and a nasty trick with the right spell.

figure you pop these into a super warhawk and land 7S AP -5 on hit. then light off the force 7 punch spell for another 8-10S damage (assuming a couple of hits on the enchanting test giving you a pool of around 9-10 for the spell test). that's enough to knock a lot of things on their asses, including magical nasties.

you could also give these to the team sniper or a drone and make a coordinated attack: he hits with say a desert strike for 11S -5, then the stun damage hits almost simultaneously as you set off the spell. zzzt. good night, sweet spirit. i'm sure that area effect spells could be a good time with these, it's just a bit nasty in terms of drain after a while. a stunball though... yeah, could work. crap, these make good dual-purpose AP/AV rounds too with a lightning bolt added in. depending on the rulings with contact triggers, this could work with them too...

SSS, i like it. makes me feel all devil may cry.

also, dart rifle rounds. how someone could argue those are "destroyed" on impact would possibly be a useful cognitive battery test for head injury or mental retardation. i'd rather roll SSS, but i'm preparing my anus for the errata being a clusterfuck.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (The Overlord @ Aug 14 2013, 11:25 AM) *
While I would be hesitant to allow the use of alchemy on bullets given their size, bolts and arrows would be just fine. I already have built a mystic adept archer who uses magic arrows.



Given how deadly bows and throwing weapons are its not really a balance change to stop guns from working just a GM doesn't like it change. Which is fine whether it comes from your or catalyst but if I allow prepared arrows I'll allow prepared bullets of pure love.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 13 2013, 02:28 PM) *
Why? The Problem is that a Contact trigger will set off when you load the round into its magazine, when the round is chambered, and when it is immediately fired and it contacts the barrel (all those have actual contact in them, and, if aura contact is mandatory, loading the round either into the gun or the magazine counts as aura contact). So, no, I do not see this as viable. wobble.gif



It depend son how you read next living person. Next living person after the preparation is complete, or next person who is not the mage since the mage is the same person not the next one. Given that I suspect you are supposed to make it then throw or place it somewhere I suspect next means next person after the mage as the mage is still the same person touching it not the next one.
shinryu
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 14 2013, 06:24 PM) *
It depend son how you read next living person. Next living person after the preparation is complete, or next person who is not the mage since the mage is the same person not the next one. Given that I suspect you are supposed to make it then throw or place it somewhere I suspect next means next person after the mage as the mage is still the same person touching it not the next one.


yeah, this also needs clarification. if your interpretation is correct then there's no problem with setting off your own preparations, and it's not really a problem to have command spells inaccessible on the same pass as you throw the item since you don't have to worry about the thing going off in your hand. i assume you could make it go off if you wanted to and were touching it, of course.

in other news: excellent sig.

also, the think tank at the official forums is claiming the loss of atoms from a preparation would be sufficient to disrupt the lynchpin for a bullet. more specifically, they said "scratches from the barrel", which implies that basically you would need to never, ever touch a preparation or it would be disrupted. splinter came off your magic wand? fuck you, gandalf, preparation is ruined. pretty sure if your rounds are being scratched that badly you have a safety problem. also, teflon.

so yeah. fuck that place, seriously.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (shinryu @ Aug 14 2013, 10:24 AM) *
@ Tymeaus: I'm curious how you're rolling with the ninja alchemist. My schtick was going to be punch on shuriken, since you can dial up a force 7 or 8 punch spell for cheap and have a good chance of going through armor/spirits and similar. If that "can't activate on same phase" thing is true, the whole idea is a lot less attractive to me.


Well, it is SR4A, so the only real option is Magical Compounds, which are NOT spells in physical form. They are Magical Abilities in Physical form, which require preparation and only retain a few weeks useability. For "Punch," he used Throwing Mastery, custom Shurikens, and ther innate badassness of being an Oni who could change his look (all the Adept "Change Appearance" Abilities, including Man of 1000 Faces), so no one really suspected him. Really was not much he could not hurt, given a bit of time and planning.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 14 2013, 12:24 PM) *
It depend son how you read next living person. Next living person after the preparation is complete, or next person who is not the mage since the mage is the same person not the next one. Given that I suspect you are supposed to make it then throw or place it somewhere I suspect next means next person after the mage as the mage is still the same person touching it not the next one.


Indeed, it does matter. It desperately needs clarification.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012