Falconer
Sep 4 2013, 12:02 AM
Pretty much it TJ....
That's why I don't get Bulls bit at all... someone takes a 5karma sinner quality... (even less points than the old version at 5BP == 10 karma). And it's a huge problem so he's out to dock them 10% of their pay in missions?!
Yet if I take the full -25 corp sin... I pay the same 10% and don't really suffer any other penalties in game for the most part. Really in missions... can you see people outright killing characters because they have a corp SIN? I've never seen it.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 4 2013, 12:22 AM
QUOTE (Falconer @ Sep 3 2013, 05:02 PM)

Pretty much it TJ....
That's why I don't get Bulls bit at all... someone takes a 5karma sinner quality... (even less points than the old version at 5BP == 10 karma). And it's a huge problem so he's out to dock them 10% of their pay in missions?!
Yet if I take the full -25 corp sin... I pay the same 10% and don't really suffer any other penalties in game for the most part. Really in missions... can you see people outright killing characters because they have a corp SIN? I've never seen it.
Indeed, I have never seen it. Even with my Corporate Undercover Investigator, creating Dossiers on the Shadowrunners of Hong Kong (and the Surrounding Asian States), The Character was still not in danger of losing his life (though he had made a few enemies, and was on a few lists). Might be because he was very good at covering his tracks (and no one was positive I was the culprit - Was pretty good at diverting suspicion too), or because it was not that big of a deal. Not sure which. Though he was not completely trusted (by his own team) after the reveal that he had been an undercover Knight Errant Investigator. Though in SR4A, SINner was only worth 5 points, and I never actually had the Judas or Deep Cover Qualities (they were not really necessary).
The Taxes thing is just odd... and I agree... I just do not understand
Bull's stance.
Jack VII
Sep 4 2013, 12:42 AM
I still think the Limited Corp SIN is even more weird. +15 karma, the text makes it sound like you still work for the Corp in question (with one line implying that you might not work for them anymore), and you pay 20% as opposed to 10% in taxes. Yeah...
Quick Fix: Roll 1D6 each time the team takes a job. On a 1, it's actually a setup meant to kill/capture the Corporate SINner and his associates. LOL
SpellBinder
Sep 4 2013, 01:27 AM
QUOTE (Sengir @ Sep 3 2013, 04:31 AM)

1.) It's not and never has been in SR
2.) Shadowrunning is a cash-in-hand job yet the corps are still trace anything you earn and tax it. How exactly are you going to launder money under such an omniscient monitoring?
1: Yes it is.
2: Credsticks.
DMiller
Sep 4 2013, 02:52 AM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 2 2013, 01:14 AM)

Yes... For the characters that I play with multiple SIN's, if one gets burned, all things associated with it go away. This includes the money (not much) that I keep associated with that SIN. And yes, it is indeed more paperwork, but it is imminently satisfying, at least to me.

Ditto for our group.
Falconer
Sep 4 2013, 02:57 AM
It's actually kind of funny... my last missions character took knowledge finance and organized crime and the like specifically for money laundering operations.
Also, for turning corpscrip or registered nuyen into certified cred... there was often a 'fee' just like a money changer would charge. Or some kind of barter needed... turn your money into some kind of commodity... then trade that commodity for something else off the books.
RHat
Sep 4 2013, 05:55 AM
QUOTE (Sengir @ Sep 3 2013, 03:31 AM)

1.) It's not and never has been in SR
2.) Shadowrunning is a cash-in-hand job yet the corps are still trace anything you earn and tax it. How exactly are you going to launder money under such an omniscient monitoring?
1) How in the hell would money laundering EVER go away? If anything, it would be bigger and more important.
2) Legitimate-looking infusion of cash to laundering operation followed by perfectly legitimate income to runner's account.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 4 2013, 01:30 PM
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 3 2013, 07:27 PM)

1: Yes it is.
2: Credsticks.
Certified Credtsicks... Which are Cash...
SpellBinder
Sep 4 2013, 04:12 PM
Thought certified was the only kind of credstick you could get in the civilized world, as of 2070, with everything that a regular credstick used to hold being dumped onto SR's equivalent of a cell phone.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 4 2013, 04:27 PM
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 4 2013, 10:12 AM)

Thought certified was the only kind of credstick you could get in the civilized world, as of 2070, with everything that a regular credstick used to hold being dumped onto SR's equivalent of a cell phone.

Nope... Certified Credsticks are for anonymous transactions.
SpellBinder
Sep 4 2013, 04:33 PM
I know that, but what I'm trying to say is why would non-certified credsticks still be available when everything that a regular credstick used to do is now done with a commlink?
Daedelus
Sep 4 2013, 04:42 PM
Id like to defend Bull's ruling by stating he made it specifically for the Missions campaign. His statement is not meant as a blanket SR5 ruling. the Organized Play model is ill equipped to handle things that require GM knowledge and upkeep when it comes to Drawbacks. His ruling keeps these qualities in play for the missions campaign without turning them into free points without any in game negative effects. Some missions judges will take these into account, but since you cannot control ALL judges there needs to be blanket effects for some things that are imposed by the campaign. This is one of those, and is one of the negative aspects of Organized Play campaigns.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 4 2013, 05:05 PM
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 4 2013, 10:33 AM)

I know that, but what I'm trying to say is why would non-certified credsticks still be available when everything that a regular credstick used to do is now done with a commlink?
Because not all banking is doen with a Comlink.
Even today, there are people who still go to the Bank and deposit/withdraw funds, and refuse to bank online.
So, standard Credsticks are still available for those people who do not want to take the risk of keeping all their financial information on their comlink.
SpellBinder
Sep 4 2013, 05:12 PM
Maybe if you're in a feral city like Chicago. Previous material I've read suggests that regular credsticks have gone (or are going) the way of the dinosaur.
The only people I could see trying to use regular old credsticks are those of us that are alive now and might be lucky enough to survive the VITAS plagues to live into the 2070's. Not carrying a commlink runs the risk of you being accused of being a technomancer (They can use the matrix with their brains, so why would they carry one?

).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 4 2013, 05:14 PM
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 4 2013, 11:12 AM)

Maybe if you're in a feral city like Chicago. Previous material I've read suggests that regular credsticks have gone (or are going) the way of the dinosaur.
The only people I could see trying to use regular old credsticks are those of us that are alive now and might be lucky enough to survive the VITAS plagues to live into the 2070's. Not carrying a commlink runs the risk of you being accused of being a technomancer (They can use the matrix with their brains, so why would they carry one?

).
I agree that regular Credsticks are phasing out of circulation. They are just not gone quite yet.

Just because you carry a comlink, that does not mean you bank wirelessly.
Slacker
Sep 4 2013, 08:05 PM
I just thought of an alternate explanation of the income "tax" for corporate SINs...
If you still work for/with the company, it's a straight up tax. Seems reasonable that the megacorps would tax the wageslave with limited SINs more than their elite executives that were born into the upper ranks of the company, just one more perk of being a born 1 percenter.
However, if you have broken away from the company in some way, instead of an income tax that is being paid to the corp, the money is considered to be what you have to pay to continually have references to you wiped from databases, bribes to get people who recognize you to look the other way, etc. Like it's the minimum required to keep you off the megacorp's radar.
Given the surveillance of the 2070s, the megacorps are likely able to find you if they really want to. So trying to live a life outside of their control is definitely going to come at a cost.
With this explanation, the difference between Limited SIN's tax and full Corporate SIN's tax is that you still have family/colleagues that have enough good will/power to keep the corp from harassing you too much (though that is the limit of what they will do for you unless you also buy them as a contact). Limited Corp SINners don't have that level of ties to the higher ups, so they have to rely solely on what they can afford themselves.
Voran
Sep 4 2013, 08:15 PM
Presumably its gotten to the point that if you're still using accounts associated with say the Corp SINner, they'll just autodeduct the 'appropriate amounts' at 'appropriate times'. Yknow, for your convenience. And by 'your convenience' I mean, FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY WAGESLAVE, KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!
And I imagine its much harder to 'opt out' of stuff. Don't you remember the licensing agreement that you signed before you knew how to read which is totally valid under corp law under which this falls?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 4 2013, 08:53 PM
QUOTE (Slacker @ Sep 4 2013, 02:05 PM)

I just thought of an alternate explanation of the income "tax" for corporate SINs...
If you still work for/with the company, it's a straight up tax. Seems reasonable that the megacorps would tax the wageslave with limited SINs more than their elite executives that were born into the upper ranks of the company, just one more perk of being a born 1 percenter.
However, if you have broken away from the company in some way, instead of an income tax that is being paid to the corp, the money is considered to be what you have to pay to continually have references to you wiped from databases, bribes to get people who recognize you to look the other way, etc. Like it's the minimum required to keep you off the megacorp's radar.
Given the surveillance of the 2070s, the megacorps are likely able to find you if they really want to. So trying to live a life outside of their control is definitely going to come at a cost.
With this explanation, the difference between Limited SIN's tax and full Corporate SIN's tax is that you still have family/colleagues that have enough good will/power to keep the corp from harassing you too much (though that is the limit of what they will do for you unless you also buy them as a contact). Limited Corp SINners don't have that level of ties to the higher ups, so they have to rely solely on what they can afford themselves.
Corps are not going to spend the money to keep track of you if you are no longer their slave... waste of resources.
Sengir
Sep 4 2013, 08:56 PM
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 4 2013, 01:27 AM)

1: Yes it is.
2: Credsticks.
1: [citation needed]
2: If credsticks and other kinds of cash-in-hand were untraceable, shadowrunners with a corporate SIN would not have to worry about taxation. Since any income you have is taxed...
SpellBinder
Sep 4 2013, 09:48 PM
1: Unwired, pages 20 & 93; Spy Games, page 169; Vice, page 18 starts a section titled "Money Laundering", as well as pretty much in every entry on an organized crime syndicate and/or family.
2: Tax evasion is the least of any shadowrunner's worries.
RHat
Sep 4 2013, 10:02 PM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 4 2013, 10:05 AM)

Even today, there are people who sdtill go to the aBank and deposit/withdraw funds, and refuse to bank online.
Today, yes. By 2070? Highly unlikely.
FuelDrop
Sep 4 2013, 10:04 PM
I have actually houseruled that ALL taxes are included in your lifestyle costs. I've also assumed that even fake SINs need to pay taxes or get investigated.
Basically, unless otherwise specified all runners launder their lifestyle money through their fixer and have jobs at Frontcompany Inc. which pays them a living wage, from which their taxes are payed. All nice and legal. Runners are trying to stay under the radar in their home lives, so paying taxes and having a regular job (at least on paper) is part of the whole deal.
Naturally, this means that of the money they're spending on lifestyle a bit goes to the tax man and a bit goes to the money launderer (generally via their fixer) but it doesn't really break the game and it makes some sense.
Angelone
Sep 4 2013, 11:53 PM
QUOTE (Voran @ Sep 4 2013, 03:15 PM)

Presumably its gotten to the point that if you're still using accounts associated with say the Corp SINner, they'll just autodeduct the 'appropriate amounts' at 'appropriate times'. Yknow, for your convenience. And by 'your convenience' I mean, FUCK YOU THAT'S WHY WAGESLAVE, KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!
And I imagine its much harder to 'opt out' of stuff. Don't you remember the licensing agreement that you signed before you knew how to read which is totally valid under corp law under which this falls?
I think someone has caught the correct.
Critias
Sep 5 2013, 12:05 AM
Guys, it's not "Bull's" stance. Bull's the one that posted it (to clarify things for Missions), but it's not like he made the call.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 5 2013, 12:33 AM
QUOTE (RHat @ Sep 4 2013, 03:02 PM)

Today, yes. By 2070? Highly unlikely.
And yet, even today, those of us who are not wireless are viewed as odd, yet it does not stop us... I really do not think that this will change in 60 years; as long as there is a market, it will exist, because someone will cater to it.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 5 2013, 12:34 AM
QUOTE (Critias @ Sep 4 2013, 05:05 PM)

Guys, it's not "Bull's" stance. Bull's the one that posted it (to clarify things for Missions), but it's not like he made the call.
Good Point... Apologies to
Bull.
RHat
Sep 5 2013, 12:35 AM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 4 2013, 05:33 PM)

And yet, even today, those of us who are not wireless are viewed as odd, yet it does not stop us... I really do not think that this will change in 60 years; as long as there is a market, it will exist, because someone will cater to it.
If we're being realistic, people who take that sort of attitude towards this stuff are going to become rarer and rarer until the point comes where it simply isn't practical any more due to the implementations of these systems simply not supporting that kind of thing.
Sendaz
Sep 5 2013, 12:39 AM
You will probably still see some banks offering a live person behind the counter, but you will pay for that service and it won't be common.
Banks have been cutting back on staff more and more, as well as charging for services in-bank to try and encourage more online/ ATM's out front of the bank transactions.
SpellBinder
Sep 5 2013, 01:33 AM
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 4 2013, 06:39 PM)

You will probably still see some banks offering a live person behind the counter, but you will pay for that service and it won't be common.
Banks have been cutting back on staff more and more, as well as charging for services in-bank to try and encourage more online/ ATM's out front of the bank transactions.
I used to work for Bank Of America on their credit card accounts. There was (as of four years ago) an additional USD$5 surcharge for me to take a payment over the phone, while the automated system and online was free. Never had anyone happy about that surcharge.
Shemhazai
Sep 5 2013, 01:46 AM
How about money transferred to a credstick gets taxed at the owner's income tax rate, and so does assigning a new SIN as the owner of a credstick? However, just passing a credstick that anybody can use doesn't get taxed.
Rubic
Sep 5 2013, 03:50 AM
My first complete 5e build (likely to get a bit modded before any actual game play) is a full Corp SINner. Her corp KNOWS she runs; it's part of her job for them. She happily pays her taxes, as she generally believes in the common welfare promoted to those within her corp. Would she do a run "against" her corp? Probably, but she'd give her handler a heads up first (no offense to her team). She'd also try to steer them AWAY from her corp if at all possible. These situations are part of what can contribute to a 25 point Corp SINner's cost.
Just because you run the shadows doesn't mean you've actually left your corp (whether you realize it or not).
Falconer
Sep 5 2013, 03:58 AM
Shem... you just don't get it.
The credstick is nothing but a Money-Access-Card... or a pre-paid VISA/MC. It's a card/stick linked to an escrow account in some off-shore datahaven with no name associated to it. There is no SIN associated with the credstick, there is no ownership except for who physically possesses it!
Whoever physically possesses the stick... possesses the cash in the account. That is why all of us are so flustered by this idiocy on the writers/devs part. (okay it's not Bull's fault... then it's all of their faults... thanks Critias).
If you're dumb enough to shift the money out of the certified cred account... and into your own taxed bank account then you deserve to get taxed to hell and thrown in the klink for evasion for sheer stupidity.
The last thing a runner should be doing is using money from his own accounts to directly pay some illegal fence. When the fuzz pulls the bank records for whatever reason... a payment to a known felon is going to go over like a lead balloon. So with the exception of some above board lifestyle expenditures to make the SIN look 'legit'. Almost no activity should go on it.
Rubic:
Sorry but that's one of the worst 'stories' I've heard to date.
The entire point of a shadowrunner is that they're 'nobodies'. That they're deniable assets not tied to a corp.
A deep cover agent is one thing... but someone who simply runs above board and puts their corp at risk doing so is something completely different.
Rubic
Sep 5 2013, 04:41 AM
QUOTE (Falconer @ Sep 4 2013, 11:58 PM)

Shem... you just don't get it.
The credstick is nothing but a Money-Access-Card... or a pre-paid VISA/MC. It's a card/stick linked to an escrow account in some off-shore datahaven with no name associated to it. There is no SIN associated with the credstick, there is no ownership except for who physically possesses it!
Whoever physically possesses the stick... possesses the cash in the account. That is why all of us are so flustered by this idiocy on the writers/devs part. (okay it's not Bull's fault... then it's all of their faults... thanks Critias).
If you're dumb enough to shift the money out of the certified cred account... and into your own taxed bank account then you deserve to get taxed to hell and thrown in the klink for evasion for sheer stupidity.
The last thing a runner should be doing is using money from his own accounts to directly pay some illegal fence. When the fuzz pulls the bank records for whatever reason... a payment to a known felon is going to go over like a lead balloon. So with the exception of some above board lifestyle expenditures to make the SIN look 'legit'. Almost no activity should go on it.
Rubic:
Sorry but that's one of the worst 'stories' I've heard to date.
The entire point of a shadowrunner is that they're 'nobodies'. That they're deniable assets not tied to a corp.
A deep cover agent is one thing... but someone who simply runs above board and puts their corp at risk doing so is something completely different.
This isn't somebody who runs above board. Think of it as a corporate-trained deniable asset. If the runner gets burned, the corp could easily deny everything and shift all the blame onto the runner. "We try so hard to provide for our dedicated and loyal employees, and then we find that our effort and good will is taken advantage of by selfish individuals who can only bite the hand that raised and fed them! Boo, hoo! Take them away, officer, before my tears flood the basement and drown the undocumented corp-slaves I have hidden there making cheap knockoffs of competitor products." Spin, my friend, is a killer. Stay useful and don't blow dreck all over the corp, and they'll look the other way while you harvest talent and revenge for them in the darker places and the hallways of other corps. And for the love of ghost, DON'T go blasting your corp sin while you do it, or you'll be lucky if it's your FRIENDS that blow your brains out for it (mercy killing).
Edit: another way of looking at it is the corp saying, "All of your success is shared with us, all of your failures will be yours alone."
Dolanar
Sep 5 2013, 05:35 AM
I think Rubic is talking about deniable assets the way the CIA has deniable assets in many shows, you're given some help, but should you get caught, we deny ever having helped you. It may not be an uncommon tactic for those runners who do work for the corps to have a corp runner forced to come along as an on the job asset, proprietary knowledge that may be needed on the run, but don't want it in the hands of a runner crew.
Rubic
Sep 5 2013, 05:45 AM
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Sep 5 2013, 01:35 AM)

I think Rubic is talking about deniable assets the way the CIA has deniable assets in many shows, you're given some help, but should you get caught, we deny ever having helped you. It may not be an uncommon tactic for those runners who do work for the corps to have a corp runner forced to come along as an on the job asset, proprietary knowledge that may be needed on the run, but don't want it in the hands of a runner crew.
That's exactly what I was going for, along the CIA section of your comment. Most Runners are closer to "Michael Weston" from Burn Notice, "contractors," rather than agents from Mission Impossible where failure means "disavowed." This character was just closer to "Mission Impossible," so as to switch things up. Failure will hit really hard, and successes will be at least slightly muted.
Shemhazai
Sep 5 2013, 11:22 AM
QUOTE (Falconer @ Sep 4 2013, 11:58 PM)

The credstick is nothing but a Money-Access-Card... or a pre-paid VISA/MC. It's a card/stick linked to an escrow account in some off-shore datahaven with no name associated to it. There is no SIN associated with the credstick, there is no ownership except for who physically possesses it!
Whoever physically possesses the stick... possesses the cash in the account. That is why all of us are so flustered by this idiocy on the writers/devs part. (okay it's not Bull's fault... then it's all of their faults... thanks Critias).
If you're dumb enough to shift the money out of the certified cred account... and into your own taxed bank account then you deserve to get taxed to hell and thrown in the klink for evasion for sheer stupidity.
The last thing a runner should be doing is using money from his own accounts to directly pay some illegal fence. When the fuzz pulls the bank records for whatever reason... a payment to a known felon is going to go over like a lead balloon. So with the exception of some above board lifestyle expenditures to make the SIN look 'legit'. Almost no activity should go on it.
Even if all that credsticks are are glorified 20th century debit cards, those prepaid cards we use even today have fees that get directly subtracted from the money in them.
I can imagine certified credsticks would work without a SIN,Ootherwise what would the SINless use for money? For taxation purposes, hat raises the problem as to what rate to tax and possibly as to who receives the money (SIN issuing authority, nation, corp). In that case, those kinds of credsticks probably work much like you describe. Trying to tax them at variable rates (or at all) is probably a bad idea.
My thought was to not tax them at all when they change hands, but to possibly charge income tax when nuyen goes to some account attached to a SINner. There could even be a default rate for transferring money between "SINless" devices (who would be entitled to this money?), but the more I think about it, the act of actually certifying a credstick is probably much more involved than simply an encrypted money transfer, thus the device receiving the money wouldn't be certified, and thus not as much like cash, annnd... possibly subject to taxation. (Here we go again.)
Maybe this level of detail is too much for the majority of players.
Shemhazai
Sep 5 2013, 11:23 AM
QUOTE (Rubic @ Sep 5 2013, 01:45 AM)

That's exactly what I was going for, along the CIA section of your comment. Most Runners are closer to "Michael Weston" from Burn Notice, "contractors," rather than agents from Mission Impossible where failure means "disavowed." This character was just closer to "Mission Impossible," so as to switch things up. Failure will hit really hard, and successes will be at least slightly muted.
I don't think your spin is worth 25 karma.
Sendaz
Sep 5 2013, 11:41 AM
QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Sep 5 2013, 06:23 AM)

I don't think your spin is worth 25 karma.
Does it come with Psychotic gun-toting ex GF and boozer best buddy as part of the cost?

Having to stay with Mom alone should be worth 5-10.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 5 2013, 02:17 PM
QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Sep 4 2013, 06:46 PM)

How about money transferred to a credstick gets taxed at the owner's income tax rate, and so does assigning a new SIN as the owner of a credstick? However, just passing a credstick that anybody can use doesn't get taxed.
Why would you tax that. In theory, anything in your accounts have already been taxed, if they are legitimate accounts. Of course, there may be a fee with transferring Funds to a Certified Credstick, but it would not be a Tax.
Dolanar
Sep 5 2013, 04:16 PM
SINless taxation would come from heavy sales taxes & the like, tax them by what they actually buy since you can't prove their income.
Sengir
Sep 5 2013, 04:26 PM
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Sep 4 2013, 10:48 PM)

1: Unwired, pages 20 & 93; Spy Games, page 169; Vice, page 18 starts a section titled "Money Laundering", as well as pretty much in every entry on an organized crime syndicate and/or family.
2: Tax evasion is the least of any shadowrunner's worries.
2: The whole point of this thread is that thanks to the 5th Edition rules, it has become a worry.
All your income is taxed if you used to have a company SIN, despite runners usually being paid cash without invoice.
"That was the intention of the flaw, so we'll stick with it.". Which is also why money laundering for big organizations is beside the point, it would need to be done for individuals.
Shemhazai
Sep 5 2013, 05:52 PM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 5 2013, 10:17 AM)

Why would you tax that. In theory, anything in your accounts have already been taxed, if they are legitimate accounts. Of course, there may be a fee with transferring Funds to a Certified Credstick, but it would not be a Tax.

My thought was that the taxation would automatically happen as soon as the money is transferred. When corporations start to claim that they can tax people, it could take various forms.
RHat
Sep 5 2013, 07:17 PM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Sep 5 2013, 08:17 AM)

Why would you tax that.
Because money?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Sep 5 2013, 07:47 PM
QUOTE (RHat @ Sep 5 2013, 12:17 PM)

Because money?
Baah... Money is overrated.
Sendaz
Sep 5 2013, 08:02 PM
Money:
Wireless Bonus: May be spent (and taxed) as a Free Action
FuelDrop
Sep 5 2013, 10:26 PM
So... If I'm getting this right, having a real SIN gets you taxed, but having a fake SIN does not and this doesn't generate suspicion.
Or you get taxed for each and every fake SIN you have, at which point most runners are completely screwed.
also, a 5 point negative quality that costs 15% of your income hurts bad, particularly with the newly increased Cyberware prices. Particularly when the 25 point variant only costs 10%. What if you're dual SINned (EG national (Aztlan) plus limited corporate (Aztechnology))? do you have to pay 35% of your income in tax? Again, why do fake SINs not incur tax?
It just raises too many questions...
SpellBinder
Sep 5 2013, 10:29 PM
Maybe they do, and shadowrunners don't use one for more than a single fiscal year.
Sendaz
Sep 5 2013, 10:31 PM
I suspect because the Real SIN has an actual place in the system and does get tallied by the government's/corp's tax office it is assigned to.
The fake SIN on the other hand is something that has been inserted into certain levels of the system to look legit and may or may not stand up to close inspection, because you might not be in the right datalist, one of these being the tax office perhaps.
Maybe the SIN was burned or of a dead person originally, so it's been listed as inactive. The tax office isn't going to try and collect taxes on a dead guy.... yet.
Rumours that the IRS is pushing for Shedim rights so they can change the old saying from 'Death & Taxes' to 'Just Taxes' is not as funny as you may first think.
But depending on where you are, the Dead guy SIN still gets to vote... welcome to Chicago. And that was tradition long before Shedim ever popped up.
Now someone lifts that discarded SIN and carefully reinserts it into the system with a few end runs around some parts of the system so it says you are who the Fake SIN says you are. But if you go for an in depth check, the fact that Fake SIN is invalid will pop up pretty fast.
Rubic
Sep 5 2013, 11:10 PM
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Sep 5 2013, 07:41 AM)

Does it come with Psychotic gun-toting ex GF and boozer best buddy as part of the cost?

Having to stay with Mom alone should be worth 5-10.

No, those are separate, in the contacts section. And technically, my character would be the gun-toting ex xD
Angelone
Sep 5 2013, 11:21 PM
OMG, I've been playing an elven Fiona, named Felicia, all this time and nobody told me.
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