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Drain Brain
Here's the impetus...

The BBB says:

QUOTE

When using unarmed combat and Killing hands you may do normal stun damage, or physical damage as purchased.


Gramatically, in terms of how it is written, that implies the following:

Choice = (STR)M Stun OR (STR)<Killing Hands Level> Physical.

I would prefer to go this route however:

Choice = (STR)<Killing Hands Level> Stun OR (STR)<Killing Hands Level> Stun

I realise that may not suit some, however. So how about a third option?

Given that the users of Bone Lacing can choose to have their attacks do physical instead (sacrificing some of the power) then why cannot the inverse be true for PhysAds? For example:

Choice = (STR/2)<Killing Hands Level> Stun OR (STR)<Killing Hands Level> Physical




What is the general concensus, here? Does anyone have any further suggestions?
A Clockwork Lime
The quote is pretty specific. You can do your normal Stun unarmed damage [(STR)M Stun augmented by things like Bone Lacing or whatever], or the purchased level of Physical damage.
TinkerGnome
It's in the FAQ. Actually, it's not, I'm misremembering this:

QUOTE (FAQ)
Can an adept tone down his Killing Hands power? Can an adept with Killing Hands S choose to strike with a base Physical Damage of Light?
Yes, but this should be treated in a way similar to pulling punches. The player must declare what base Damage Level the adept is striking at before rolling dice. For each level the Damage Level is reduced, apply a +1 target number modifier to the test.


Shadow
Can someone translate this for me? It seems like a interesting question.
A Clockwork Lime
Translation: He's asking how you handle Killing Hands when a character only wants to do Stun damage. If you have Killing Hands D, can you do a Deadly Stun attack with it instead of Deadly Physical?
Drain Brain
Quite right, Lime, that's exactly what I'm asking. It just seemed a little... I dunno, unfair (?) that purchasing such an uber unarmed bonus would do great things for those that wanted to kill with a single blow, but suck rear if one wanted to be able to "almost always render the opponent unconscious with a single blow" - think of a STR: 8 or so character with KH:D - almost an instant knockout if the dice go their way.

I'm looking at in terms of the non-killing theorem (like why runners use gel rounds) and also for sparring - you want to practice your magical art in the form of killing hands, but you don't want to accidentally kill the guy you're sparring with.
ElastiZombie
I'm thinking something like this: (inspired by the FAQ quote)
Increase the target number when doing stun damage, given that you have to focus on not killing your opponent like you were trained to with Killing Hands. This only applies to anything greater than normal hand to hand damage. (i.e. Moderate) Target numbers increase as wound level increases.

For example:
Killing Hands at Deadly level -> Stun Damage at Deadly = TN+2
Killing Hands at Serious level -> Stun Damage at Serious = TN+1

Or something like that..
Thoughts?
Lilt
It's OT, but what would people think of a reduced cost version of killing hands that only does stun damage? IE: Something to up the damage level of your HTH attacks, or enchantify your basic melee attacks cheaply.

As for the question posed: I'm fine with the system the way it is (you don't get the killing hands damage level on melee attacks). If You don't KO them with one punch then you probably will do with your next (Str)M Stun attack as they have +2 to TNs.
Nikoli
For that, just wear Shock gloves
A Clockwork Lime
I already have that power.

Haymaker
Cost: 1 (Serious) or 3 (Deadly)

This power works exactly like Killing Hands save that it augments the adept's natural Stun damage from Moderate to the purchased level. Like Killing Hands, it's equally effective on the astral plane or for purposes of defeating Immunity to Natural Weapons.

Note that since the adept starts with Moderate Stun naturally, the costs are effectively identical to Killing Hands at the same level.
Senchae
QUOTE (Lilt)
It's OT, but what would people think of a reduced cost version of killing hands that only does stun damage? IE: Something to up the damage level of your HTH attacks, or enchantify your basic melee attacks cheaply.

Yeah, we did that in our game as well, though we just called it "Stun Hands". It's a little cheaper than Killing Hands of the same level.
Lilt
@ACL, Not quite, There's still the possibility of magicifying the adept's natural (Str)M Stun... That should definately not be free. 0.25 PPs sound OK?
A Clockwork Lime
All the other perks are pretty much free as part of other powers (you need Astral Perception at the very least to attack astral entities, and any magical augmentation such as Distance Strike and potentially even Improved Ability: Unarmed Combat will allow you to defeat Immunity to Natural Weapons). But sure, if you wanna go that route 0.25 sounds fine to me.
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