Just a question that is purely academic at this point.

The maximum initiative dice you can roll is 5. There aren't (currently) any augmentations that allow you to roll that in meat space, correct? Only using edge, or hot-sim VR gets you there?

I think if you add some drugs or spells into the mix you can hit 5d6.

~Jason

With the right combo of augmentations, drugs and spells anything is possible.

You can hit the 5d6 limit with just (heh, just, yeah right) a force 8 Increase Reflexes spell, assuming you get the required 8 hits. You can also try the same thing with a lower force spell and add edge to the mix.

Wired Reflexes 3 will allow you to hit 4d6, and then an Increase Reflexes spell will get you to the max (assuming that you have 2 hits on the spellcasting test). But as for just augmentations, there is nothing that I can find that will get you to the 5d6.

Keep in mind that ordinary Hot Sim VR only gets you +4d6 (total). Right now the only way to get +5d6 in the Matrix is to be a Technomancer and get the Overclocking Submersion Echo.

The rules specifically state that you can only have a maximum of 5d6 for initiative, not +5d6 (see pg 179 - Initiative score).

on the other hand, there is no limit to the size of the flat number other than what you can manage to pull off.

so, if you can actually manage to get everything maxed out, you could have a better initiative than everyone else and still only be rolling a single die

Indeed...

That's what I was trying to say. With Hot Sim VR all you get is Intuition + Data Processing + 4d6 for Initiative. Only a Technomancer that's taken Overclocking can get Intuition + Data Processing + 5d6.

Are Wired Reflexes + Reaction Enhancers (each wireless) combatible to Drugs like Jazz?

If they are, you easily can get +6 Reaction +4d what could make a pervert Iniative score of 15+5d6 or somethink like that. But actually i dont know if it would work, since there are some restrictions.







So the question is, are drugs enhancements? If they do not count as regular enhancements, +5d is achieveable very easy. But honestly i dont know. I can remember having a discussion like that with sr4 some time ago.

What do you think?

AFAIK, you can combo drugs and cyber enhancers.

Which is the Lure...

'wireless wired reflexes'

Mind. Blown.

Well, if you disable the DNI, you can at least preserve your Mind.

no, that's how it works in 4th edition.

in SR5, that's only enabled in wireless mode for no apparent reason whatsoever

Wired Reflexes work just fine in SR5 without wireless stupidity.

Any runner who activates Wireless functionality on their neural ware is just waiting to be screwed.
Disable all wireless. You will be happier for it.
And use a Micro-transceiver (rather than a Comlink with Matrix access) for your communications - if any - and you can ignore the matrix completely. So, you only have a finite range for communications (1km). So what, that is still a pretty large operational zone.

Yeah, waiting to be screwed by the GM that decides bricked Wired Reflexes and/or Reaction Enhancers makes you a quadriplegic.

Bricking... Another horrible idea brought to (forced upon) you by the Line Developer who could not take a hint when it was tried in SR4.

Just had a thought in trying to make sense of the wireless demand in SR5, when in SR4 data storage was never a problem.

In SR5 your devices & such have next to no data storage at all now. It's all in 'The Cloud' instead. Makes more sense that your SmartGun's OS is running from some nexus somewhere than actually in your gun now, to make some sense that it must be wirelessly enabled just to work.

Trivially fixed, however, with minimal memory capabilities, and a simple download of software.
Wireless bonuses - You will never truly be able to make sense of the nonsense that we currently have. *shrug*

Wait, so is there a way to start with or boost the crap out of your base initiative without gaining that many initiative dice?
What's the max base initiative anybody can feasibly get?

My Shark Adept has a 11+1d6 before adding any Adept boosts.
You could feasibly(?) start with a Reaction 8 and Intuition 5 for 13+1d6, but there may be other ways to get there.

I think the most you can feasibly permanently get at chargen is 15 + 1D6 (Intuition or Reaction at 7, the other at 5, plus Used R3 Reaction Enhancers). That's without picking up the extra dice from Reaction Enhacers.

ETA: Hmmm... an adept could probably go higher. Make Intuition 8, Reaction 5, then take 5 ranks of Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction) and you would have 18 + 1d6. Granted, that seems like a total waste, but...

You can't go above +4 on any attribute, so that'd be four ranks of Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction) for 17+1d6.

The increase Reflexes spell gives +1 Initiative per hit and technically has no limit.

Besides the augmented max issue, how the hell is the Adept getting Intuition 8?

Sorry, was supposed to be Intuition 7 per the original cyberguy. Augmented max for a human is 10, right? (6+4) Or did we decide it was your current attribute + 4.

OK, just checked, so that would be capped at 5+4 (whee! a free PP to spend somewhere else). So sorry, 16+1D6

Yeah, 16 would be the max without magic or druges afaik.

I actually built as an exercise a very powerful human adept who has 15 +4D6 init, 22 dice in his defense pool (assuming you can initiate during chargen), which goes up to 27 for the full turn when on full defense, 32 and rules of 6 with edge thrown in. He can nearly never be surprised, being always allowed a perception roll, for which he rolls 13 dice (15 if specialization applies). And he's still useful enough with 16 dice to pilot wheeled ground craft, 13 dice plus modifiers for shooting an assault rifle and for slashing with swords. A very min maxed dodger that can still do some other stuff decently enough. I call him Stuntman Mike as an homage to Tarantino.

Couldn't you just max out your PPs in increased attribute (Reaction) and Increased attribute (Intuition)? Or is there something I am missing here?

Improved Physical Attribute (the permanent adept power) only works on physical attributes.

You can't raise intuition at chargen without drugs or magic in any way that I know of.

In the above example, I could switch a few points around to get an extra reaction and reaching the 16 + 4D6 without too much trouble. For instance, by sacrificing one net die in the defense pool by decreasing combat sense by 2, and taking improved physical attribute: Reaction at 1 instead. I think overall it's actually better, and more min-maxed

For reference, with an init of 4d6+16, you have 99.9% odds of getting 3+ passes, and 44.4% to get 4 passes,

There is no Adept power for raising a Mental attribute.

Well, in SR5 that's true (currently). In SR4 you have Creative Eye available to adepts of The Artist's Way and Keen Wits available to adepts of The Artisan's Way that improve Intuition and Logic (respectively), but the ways would have to be houseruled into SR5 since a lot of quality costs changed. Otherwise those powers would work just the same as Improve Physical Attribute.

Until the Magic Book comes out, then there will likely be a Metamagic, like in SR4A.
Or the Adept Ways, as was mentioned above.

Ahh k thanks all. Felt like I was missing something obvious, and I was

a dedicated Mage can reach a base Ini of 30 easily and a dedicated mystic Adept can even top a base Ini of 40
so if they roll a max with their 5d6 Ini they can get 60 or even 70

with a superfast Dance
Medicineman

I believe this is correct with some spells, reagents, perfect casting rolls, and perhaps even drugs on top, assuming they stack. Stretching it to the maximum, you might be able to reach the unbelievable 71 init with a starting character, in theory.

Is there a limit to the number of initiative passes a character (or NPC/other) can have? 8 sounds like a whole lot.

Nope !
in 4A there is the Cap of 4 IPs in Meatspace and 5 in the Matrix but I couldn't find any in SR5


Not for a starting Char .
You'd need at least 2 Sustaining Foci of force 5 (and you need to roll 5 6' s with your Iniroll)
but 50+ Ini (or even 60+ with an above average Diceroll) can be reached after about 40-50 Karma.


Uoopps, I forgot Drugs !
...I didn't calculate any Drugs only Magic and Adept Powers. If Drugs stack than max Ini might even be 80+ ?



with an incredible fast Dance
Medicineman

In skimming this thread more than once I've pondered exploding dice for initiative, but I think you can only spend Edge to get 5d6 on Initiative and nothing more.

Too focused on an SR4a based story, so really not inclined to research that.