Alright, the adept power, traceless walk, now what exactly is the score with this power?

You can walk on snow without sinking into it? Right, okay, so they can also walk on 2 inches of crispy brown autumn leaves without crushing them down or making a noise?

What is this? Some kind of funky levitate? Don't get me wrong, I have no problems at all with the power. Also, before anyone mentions it, the +4 to perception TN is because the adepts equipment makes noise (naked adepts are good to go!).

So, okay, you can't walk across liquids, but deep snow is okay, we'll assume that is because it's kinda solid, so.. thick marsh and mud is okay too, right? This means you can't actually TOUCH the ground, because otherwise it's a weight thing.. mass and force and something else I was probably supposed to learn at some point.

Anyway, this brings me to another point. Where does this power actually stop?

If you can walk across snow without sinking into it, therefore not actually touching it, then what other kinds of things can you walk on?

1) Caltrops - Why not, you don't touch things you walk on right?
2) Burning coals - Yeah, there'd still be heat, but you wouldn't touch the coals.
3) Broken glass - I always wanted to run on broken glass bare-foot.
4) Mono-wire - Assuming I can balance good, why can't I stand on this?
5) Dog turds - Hey, no more cleaning my new sneakers!

So, okay, what do you think the score is? What if you had a set of snowy poles, just mounds of snow, could the adept walk up them? Ooh.. and I wanna go see that crazy dwarven tight-rope walker do his mono-wire thing.

I mean, in theory, if you don't TOUCH the surface (with feet only), then you can walk across mono-wire, right?

What do you all think?



- Baatorian

Edit - Not much

Pressure sensors?
Land mines?
Sleeping dragons?

Consider the traceless walk to be a single sense (tactile) physical illusion (I suddenly have a new spell I want to learn...). Just as the silence spell prevents the subject's actions from directly making noise, traceless walk prevents the adept's actions from exerting energy to the surroundings. This would be a crippling power if not for the high level of (usually subconscious) control that the adept has over the effect, reality will respond to the adept according to the adept's preference for the action. He wants to pull the trigger, so the power lets kinetic energy transfer to the trigger, he doesn't want to leave a track in the snow, so the power prevents that transfer of energy. The effect only works from the adept out, so he cannot "will" a bullet into harmlessness.

How's that for an explination?

so can he will himself to balance barefoot on a caltrop point without hurting himself?

The effect works one way. The adept is still fully subject to gravity, it's just that the world around the adept "ignores" the effects of the adept. The caltrop would not shift under the weight, but the adept's foot would be just as pierced by the caltrop as without the power. The adept will still take falling damage, but won't leave much of a crater (only the energy transferred after the moment of death would be used to calculate the impact crater).

If you're stupid enough to step on a hot coal, or a caltrop, or a strand of wire, you deserve to suffer injury, Traceless Walk or not.

Let us go over BASICS children: Traceless Walk gives the recipient a degree of stealth. That is it's purpose. It muffles noise, prevents footprints, and negates pressure on nightingale floors or pressure pads. This doesn't mean you can step on a caltrop and be hunky-frickin' dory, but it might let you hobble away without leaving bloody footprints.

When in doubt, assume the least stupid, munchkinny interpretation of the power is correct.

My reading is pretty similar to HoV's. The problem with taking it all the way to a tactile illusion, however, is that it opens a whole new can of illusion-worms. IE: Can you make an illusionary flight of stares and run up them? What about an illusionary bike to drive away on?

I'd say when his foot reaches a reasonable amount of surface to support his weight (say half the surface of his foot) then the power works as normal but if you try to step on a caltrop shaped piece of snow while the rest is flat or bumpy then the piece sticking out gets pushed down until it's of a reasonable level with the rest of the snow. same with glass, if a piece is sticking up and the rest is flat then the pointed piece will pierce the skin until it's pushed down to level with the rest of the glass. i'd say you'd then leave a blood-drop trail but not bloody footprints.

off topic, AH how many forums do you post your essays on man?! i counted at least 3 (this one, earthdawn classic, and one other forum that i forgot the name to)!

Raptor1033: Several. People tell me I should get out more.

Frankly, Baatorian, it's a silly arguement. Being able to walk without footprints on snow does not automatically equal being able to tip-toe over sharp-sharp pointy things.

Like most things dealing with magic, it's about suspension of disbelief. Traceless Walk does exactly what it says it does, and that's about the extent of it. There isn't any rationalize way to explain it; it simply is because it's magic. If it made perfect sense, it likely wouldn't be.

A nice pair of mono-weave socks will keep your feet safe from almost any sharp terrain (caltrops, monowire tightrope, etc.). Anyone know the actual volume of the fabric for a typical sock so we can get an approximate price?

Alright, alright, look.

I think the main point here is that the adept doesn't sink into snow. When I walk on snow I sink into it, an adept with traceless walk doesn't. I think that's the main point really.

Now, this isn't just "leave a trace in snow" this is and I quote..

I'll admit that I haven't been playing SR for very long, but--if you'll pardon me for using a movie analogy-- I always pictured the "Traceless Walk" Adept power as similar to the scenes in the film REMO WILLIAMS: THE ADVENTURE BEGINS (1985), in which Remo (Fred Ward) was running along the beach (presumably oceanfront property near New York City) and not leaving any footprints in the wet sand at the water's edge.

Whether the "Traceless Walk" ability might allow an Adept PC to duplicate other feats shown in the film (walking across the surface of freshly-poured wet cement, such as Remo did when he was eluding a would-be killer at the Statue of Liberty, or walking across the surface of still water, as Chiun did at the end of the film), I would imagine is a question left to the discretion of individual GMs.

Although Baatorian's post makes me think that walking across water would be impossible without using some variation of a "Levitate" spell....

--Foreigner

I agree about the application, such as hoofing it across wet cement to escape enemt, etc. except Chun ran across the lake at the end.
("You must run very fast.")

or how about with each step the adept takes a magical field forms around his feet effectively extending the surface area his weight is supported on. this makes it so he doesn't depress pressure plates, leave footprints, sink into snow, and combined with a limited range of silence it keeps leaves from crackling, crushed glass from crunching, etc. the extended surface area is useless vs caltrops because the caltrop itself has virtually no surtface area to spread over so the adept gets hurt like everyone else. sounds like best explanation i've heard so far, of course i made it up so i have to think that way

I agree with Lime here wholeheartedly. how about it's magic and doesn't need an explanation.

I agree completely Herald. Especially since I don't see anything internally inconsistent with this power.

Like Lime said, it's Magic. Consider it a constantly running check on everything the adept walks over. If it has the potential to leave a trace where he walks, he doesn't leave a trace there.

For instance, my take on the caltrop thing is that he stabs his foot (ice caltrop or not), it hurts him, but the blood doesn't come out of his foot. He's still got the injury, he's just not gonna die of blood loss because dripping blood from his feet would be a traceable walk.

Pressure sensors going off also leave a trace of his walk, so he's in the clear there too. Land mines? Don't land mines use pressure sensors anyway, so isn't that the crux of the issue?

Here's the guideline. Look at whatever the adept's walking on. Take away the trace. Leave everything else.

Edit: I don't write so gud.

You're nicer than I am. I'd have traceless walk negate footprints, but leave the blood-spoor.

It's traceless walk, not traceless bleed.

Suppose an adept with TW has a hole in his pack, and there is flour/sawdust/marbles/chalkdust/small mice/water/ammo/dustbunnies leaking out? Does he leave a trail?

I'd say yes. But no footprints.

I have to agree; Time is more lenient than I'd be. Traceless Walk shouldn't staunch bleeding.

And, yeah, given that traceless walk makes pressure sensors incapable of detecting you, I'd apply the same to land mines.

No argument there. Landmines _are_ pressure sensors, of a crude sort.

I rule that although the adept's weight does not affect the world, the world still affects the adept; i.e. the ability only blocks interactions in one direction. It acts like a buffer between the adept and the world. Adept wants to jump out of a three story window? Fine. The ability takes the place of the ground as far as the adept is concerned. His feet hit something that feels like the ground, and hits back just as hard, but the ground feels nothing. Adept walking on leaves: feet touch ability, ability touches back, but neither interacts with the ground at all.

edit: Had a more detailed explanation of how it works. Rewrote it completely, still wasn't satisfied, and deleted it. If you saw it already, ignore it. It was inaccurate. In trying to write out my explanation for traceless walk I realized I'm inconsistent in my own handling of it. I just use GM fiat to dictate its effects depending on what my own ideas on how it works (which I find impossible to articulate, apparently). Caltrops? You're gonna be hurting. Floor covered in nails about 1/4 in apart? No problem, do some jumping jacks.

Re-edit: As a rule of thumb, I'd say a single surface of 1 in*in is enough to support the adept, or at least one point for every 1 in*in of foot surface. Just trying to find a rule that would encompass standing on a stack of quarters and a bed of nails, but not a caltrop. Of course, I'd still slice his foot off if he tried to walk across monowire, so that rule still doesn't cut it.

Problem is, controlling your feet doesnt negate ground pressure. There has to be some manipulation of basic physical forces at work.

so... would an adept with traceless walk and gecko crawl (quickened onto him) be able to scramble over a sleeping dragon?

Sure. Traceless Walk and Gecko Crawl not necessary. Anyone can do that. Might not be the wisest thing, but anyone could do it.

You know, the mention of land mines reminds me of a book I read several (I think at least 20) years ago.

It was a non-fiction account of combat in the European Theater during World War II.

A member of the commander's new platoon (the new C.O. was assigned to replace someone who'd been killed or sent home due to injuries, I believe) had, at some time prior to the new commander being assigned, successfully "blazed a trail" through an enemy minefield by running through it so quickly that all the mines exploded AFTER he was past them.

I believe that the soldier in question had a pre-war background in Track & Field, but I can't remember. I believe, although I am not entirely certain (I don't know if the book was that specific), that he also shed ALL of his gear except his uniform, helmet, and boots to cut down on encumbrance.

Just thought you'd be interested. As the saying goes, fact is often stranger than fiction.

--Foreigner

I really hope someone tries that in one of my games. What's the damage code for running into monowire again?

Moon-Hawk:

I believe the mine in question is the German "S"-mine. "Bouncing Betty" was the derisive nickname bestowed upon it by American soldiers. However, I'm reasonably certain that there have been similar mines used in warfare over the years.

IIRC, the device in question usually had trigger mechanisms (pressure sensors) arrayed in a semi-circular or circular pattern around it, roughly a meter away from the mine itself--one meter being the approximate stride length of a man of average height, i.e., 5' 6" to 5' 8" (1.68 to 1.73 Meters).

The intended victim would step on the trigger, firing a small explosive charge placed directly beneath the mine itself. After a delay of a fraction of a second--long enough for the mine itself to be propelled up to roughly waist-high--the main charge would detonate, discharging the mine's cargo--hundreds of one-half-centimeter ball bearings--for a distance of approximately twenty-five yards (22.86 Meters) in any direction.

In one story I remember reading about the D-Day landings (Normandy, France, June 6, 1944), one fellow walked by another soldier who had apparently fallen victim to an S-mine. The man in question, still very much alive at that point, was in a seated position, propped up with his back against a tree, with his midsection heavily bandaged--and calmly spitting up ball bearings.

--Foreigner

_I_ wouldn't be all that calm about having my midsection turned to hamburger. And I'd sure as hell not be able to calmly spit up the ball bearings that _turned_ my midsection to hamburger. Something about the way that the muscles and organs I need to _do_ that feat have been turned into hamburger.

If he was suffering from shock(which I'm sure he was) it would be possible that he was feeling no pain whatsoever and could be quite detached about his injuries.

[EDIT] Also if he was bandaged someone must have treated him, most likely doping him up something fierce in the process [/EDIT]