So I just started GMing for a small group of newbies and one of them has reached a dilemma. He themed his character around martial arts, shark totem adept and unarmed combat. In a recent run he went up against guys who had decent armor, thus turning most of his hits into Stun. As he doesn't like the idea of Weapon Foci because of addiction rules, and he is wondering about having various weapons that use unarmed attack to both help him deal with Armor a little, and to flavor up his combat, like blades on his feet or something. Help please.

Is there some reason he absolutely has to kill his opponents? Stun damage is still damage, and most characters have a shorter Stun track than Physical.

Any reason he'd be against hardline gloves as a weapon focus?

Gotta say, Stun is better than physical 7 times out of ten, with the other three being drones (Who don't really have that much armour to overcome), Vehicles (Who shouldn't be the martial arts adept's problem), and structures (Who again shouldn't be the adept's job), with occasional exceptions such as guys with pain editors breaking the mold. Even if you intend to kill your targets eventually, stun damage will generally down them faster and once they're down they can be disposed of in any manner you feel appropriate. Stun heals faster in the event of friendly fire, makes taking prisoners easier, ect.

In effect, if you're not sacrificing much to deal it then stun is the way to go.

i heard there's going to be a re-write for some martial arts specializations that are in 4th edition Arsenal page 156. most don't really translate well into 5th edition

A human adept can spend 5 PP on Improved Physical Attribute (Strength), Killing Hands, and Critical Strike, and be doing 12P base damage with Knucks, which is pretty good for a punch. It's not quite Troll with a Combat Axe, but then again, what is?

You can do this cheaper if you don't mind taking Drain.

With killing hands you don't need the Knucks.

Need, no. But Knucks work from Unarmed and give Str+1 DV instead of just Str.

Correct, so dump the killing hands for something else.

Edit: I would suggest Critical Strike (Unarmed Combat) for an additional +1DV.
Edit (2) Oops, only 1 time allowed for crit strike.

Killing Hands is more of a backup -- can't always use the Knucks, and part of the point of the unarmed adept is not to have to rely on weapons. The knucks are just a nice bonus.

If you want to get into gear that helps do (lots of) additional damage but still lets you get by on Unarmed Combat alone, you're sort of trying to get a free lunch. Weapons like boot blades, or claw gloves, or the mythical Punch Gun are the very definition of Exotic Melee Weapon.

That said, considering the abstraction of the melee rules there's nothing really stopping you from saying that "A Shit-ton of Knifey-Bladey Objects All Over My Hands, Feet, and Mad-Max-Style Shoulder Pads" is an Exotic Melee Weapon that does (Str+2)P -1AP damage (also called "combat knife damage"). Of course, then your adept has to experience the horror of being good at two combat skills.

Why would that be Horror, exactly? My Shark Shaman Melee Specialist is good with 3 Combat Skills (Two 6's and a 5). Don't know why that is a problem. *shrug*

Im not entirely sure why he wants to do more physical beyond it some how be in "keeping" with his shark Adepts theme, and perhaps because in the last run he wasnt able to do physical damage most of the time (he had to AttributeBoost to have a chance). I told him about weapon foci but he said that not only where they not worth it/nor fit his character, but also he didnt want to deal with addiction which is crazy since he is using a force 4 Ki foci to give him better reflexes. He just seems to be intent on being able to kill people with his fists , and has even preposed a fist weapon with blades on it to give him -3AP (though it is more expensive than any fist weapons.) He is also the most bland of the characters playing, as he seriosuly takes no interest in anything outside of combat, though that could be either his metagaming desire(which he tried to pull at durring creation) and that he has piginholed himself.

what did he go up against before this, that this comes as such a shock to him?
if he does not want to be silent and all sneaky like, elemental strike sound negates armor completely.
other elemental effects halve armor usually. aside from specialized armor at least. sound for example gets canceled out completely by ear plugs.

Elemental Attacks for Adepts exist in SR5? I thought we were waiting upon expanded powers until the Magic book comes out, as normal.

Ah, SR5?
OK, no clue.
Thought it was SR4.

Indeed... No worries, though.

On the other hand, cyber-implant weaponry, which is actually in the rules, uses Unarmed Combat. So I don't see why one couldn't have a spiked glove/gauntlet that did about the same DV as cyber-implant weaponry, and used the Unarmed Combat skill. Not exactly concealable, mind you, but on the other hand you could also turn it into a weapon focus for added punch.

Um tell him he should branch out into blades (for combat axes) or an exotic weapon like a monofilimant whip. He could also go for hand razors or cyberspurs or snap blades (not sur if they are in 5th, the non-cyber equivalent of spurs). He could also get a punch dagger.

As to the second part, I'd be a bit aggravated with the player, but that comes from the fact that to me a run done right has a low or no body count.....

If you're going to be doing less than 8P in unarmed melee you may as well just use Shock Gloves anyway.

Horrible Premise... And Flawed...

'ow so?

It lacks punch.

*gets booed off stage*

Sarcasm, sir.

Yet another SR5 nerf, it seems, but one I reluctantly agree with. In SR4, you could get ludicrous unarmed damage levels by combining levels of critical strike with martial arts damage bonuses, bone density augmentation or bone lacing, and Strength boosts. I like the concept of an unarmed martial artist type, but it was a bit jarring having unarmed attacks outperforming claymores and battle axes.

So hard to decipher in text.
My apologies.

Jarring indeed...
Easy to keep in line in SR4A, but the ability was definitely there. Of course, now you don't even need to try to hit those levels in SR5, since Strength is no longer halved. Thankfully, Critical Strike was reduced in power.. Not quite as useful as it used to be, though still nice.

I wouldn't say "thankfully" as Critical Strike was absolutely essential to any build that wanted to focus on melee other than MurderTroll. Options are very limited now for doing any significant melee damage that can outpace firearms, especially when factoring in defender penalties like Full Auto from a machine pistol.

Rarely did I ever take Critical Strike above 2 Levels (though I was a Fan of all 3 levels of Penetrating Strike), so I have no application on that one to fall back upon. My One "Brutal" Physad was an Oni Ninja Throwing Adept who hit with the power of PAC's with Shuriken, though. Which was fairly ludicrous when you really think about it.

Routinely assassinated targets with simple items like toothpicks. But he was an interesting and fun character with a lot of depth.
Would like to replicate him in SR5, but there is currently no ability to do so, due to lack of proper rules on race and adept abilities.

Think I will try out my Shark Adept Instead.

With all these Shark Adept running around, might be time to see about getting a Roy Scheider Mentor spirit.

I feel like a Shark Adept hipster now, I made mine in SR4.

I think that it is time to found the SPC.
AKA, the Shark Punching Center. Researching new ways to punch sharks since 5 minutes ago.

Shark Boxing

I think this topic has jumped the shark.

I think the shark has jumped this topic

Quickly, someone punch it!

Had the idea for mine in SR4, but never got around to playing it. I was enjoying my Ninja too much.

Why not be BOTH?

There's a thought.

Given this, I'm not sure how much you really want to be warping the game around what this guy wants - after all, the more you do, the more he's liable to push. You could houserule in some of the missing powers if you wanted.

Frankly, the only real question you wanna ask then is this: Is he being blatantly outperformed by the other players? If yes, this is a balance issue and needs to be addressed, but I doubt that's the case. If not it's really just an issue of a player wanting special rules to do more damage. In other words, entitlement. This does not need a GM fixing it, this needs a GM explaining to the player that every play style has drawbacks and tradeoffs and he has to face those.

As previously mentioned, if all he wants is physical damage, have him take killing hands. It does exactly what he wants and its extremely cheap.

Playing a melee combatant can be viable but it's harder than playing a "normal" character simply because you are handicapping yourself. You have to close in, deal with counterattacks etc. That's the nature of melee. But it is still a viable route. It just works differently. Instead of having a high damage code and armor penetration off the bat, it relies on having many hits to increase the damage code beyond the armor level of the opponent.

P.S. As a sidenote. Attribute Boost does not work that way. It's worded a bit weirdly, but it specifically says that it only affects dice pools. Hence, it does not increase the damage of melee attacks.

Please note that as an Adept Follower of Shark, he gets Killing Hands for Free...

Oooops..... uhm... free is cheap?

Extremely, LOL

Heh... can't get Cheaper than Free...

well they could pay you to have it...

Then they tend to generate Suspicion (or at least it should). Why are they paying me to have it? What is wrong with it? Will I be betrayed by this in the future? Etc...

Fear the devious plots of the killing hands.

So making that a run. Adept powers that have a negative cost, provided you worship the right totem...

Naah... was more commenting upon the "Free" things you get with apparently no strings attached. Every campaign tends to have them...
It amazes me that so many people never look askance at them.

Shark has a pretty hefty penalty attached for those Free Killing Hands and Extra Unarmed combat dice.

if you consider going berserk a penalty, yes . .