I've been asked to help design a character, whose player wants to use a wire to strangle people. The problem is that I don't remember where rules for that are. Cannon Companion?

Thanks!

There are rules for holding your breath/oxygen deprivation in the Companion. But I'm not sure that they'd be any use to you. AFAIK, when you use a garotte or strangle someone- if you're doing it right- then it's more a case of constricting the blood vessels in the neck and depriving the brain of nutrients.

If you're using something really thin and strong then you also have the possibility of causing physical damage as it cuts through the neck but I'll ignore that since it causes a mess and then you might as well have used a knife.

You'll probably have to come up with your own rules on it. Unfortunately I have no real knowledge about it so can't really be much help I'm afarid.

More oxygen than nutrients, but yeah, it's more blood-related than breathing-related (though that's an added bonus).

~J

Well I kinda classed oxygen as a nutrient but thanks for making it clear.

Assuming that you're referring to a garrote, which is effectively using a wire for strangulation, there are no canon rules. I'd suggest a couple strength tests followed by a body test. Ultimately, keep in mind that while garrotes are effective, if you have full access to your target (say, sneaking up behind a standing guard), an arm over his mouth, a quick twist of his neck, and a deep and long stab to his kidney in the opposite direction will put him down much more quickly with much less noise and much more reliability. Or, you know, so I hear.

Also, keep in mind that even though garrotes ultimately kill by strangulation, they definitely cut quite deeply and broadly across the neck and make a pretty big mess of things.

Also regarding garrotes and physical damage: They tend to crush the windpipe whether they cut through the neck or not.

When you stab him with the knife, like Arethusa said, do it to his lung, not his kidney. Once the knife enters the lung he won't be making any noise louder than a *gasp*.

Remember when you were a kid and your older sibling punched you in the stomach when you weren't ready? You dropped to the ground like a sack of potatoes. That is because your lungs collapsed. Same thing, except when they have a hole in them they don't re-inflate.

If you use a garrot of some kind make sure it's thin, strong, and has a not tied in the middle. Ideally the not should be placed on, or just above the adams apple.

Of course if someone has a dermal sheaf or dermal plating I am not sure how useful a garrot would be.

How about (STR+3)L. Physical. Per Phase. And then resolve it as melee combat with bonuses for "Oppent held" or something. Only maybe instead of causing damage if the defender gets more successes he gets out or something?

Just tossin' out ideas...

Just to be be clear.....

We're talking about using normal wire to strangle someone not mono-wire... Right? Very early in Shadowrun ( 1rst Edition ) I had a character with 2 cyber arms who tried to strangle someone with mono-wire. Got a little messy.

Sentry Elimination 101

Yeah, 'cause it's not possible. You cannot apply enough pressure to strangle someone, even slightly, with monowire without slicing their head off.

~J

Fair enough

~J

The Thugs (AKA Thugees), a religious extremist group following Kali in India, used to use a piece of cloth with a coin tied into one end for weight. The technique used was to sneak up behind a victim (often with other people nearby to distract the victim and hold them still) and swing the cloth so that the weight carried it around the victim's neck. The weighted end of the cloth was then caught, twisted with the un-weighted end, and the knuckles of the strangler were pushed into the neck vertibrae to tighten it even more.

As for damage code, IIRC you can't stay concious for that long after your blood supply is cut-off. 3, maybe 4 heart-beats?

You can actually hold out in somewhat diminishing capacity for a remarkable amount of time. (Body / 2 + 6) seconds, maybe more. Of course, without extensive training and personal awareness, these seconds are spent in abject fear and confusion, but that's something else.

Hmm. What would be the TN to melee-attack someone behind you? IE: to break the hold. I'd imagine it would be hard to pull the garotte off your neck, it digging in and all, so I'm thinking stamping on toes and elbows to guts. I'd imagine there would be a small penalty for impared visibility, maybe a penalty for not being able to strike as effectively behind you (at-least on unarmed attacks) and your strangler would probably be at a penalty as he has to keep his hands in a set position (well, he could move them but then he'd no longer be strangling the target)

It is, but keep in mind that garrotes don't work very well unless they're contacting bare flesh; even a tall collar is enough to basically make them worthless, which is why they're such specific weapon and why a knife is generally a far better choice. I'd factor such things into the initial attack test. Maybe a Quickness test followed by some opposed Strength tests? Kind of a hard one to call.

The Manriki-Gusari handles it through Stun damage while you have an opponent ensnared. That's pretty much exactly what strangling should entail, especially since once unconscious killing them doesn't take much effort.

Just use the rules for grappling and have the target resist your Damage Code of your weapon, such as (STR)M Stun if using your barehands.

With that out of the way, you just need to come up with a stat block for a garotte.

Garotte: (STR+1)S Stun damage, but only inflicts damage if a grappling attempt first succeeds (making Stealth and Surprise Tests your friend). Weight is neglible, and price is pretty cheap (20 nuyen, most of which accounts for the handles). Monowire Garrotes increase their damage as if dikoted and shifts it to physical damage, thus boosting it to (STR+2)D. Weight remains the same but price increases to 2,000 nuyen plus the cost of whatever you're going to use for handles that can retract the line (500 nuyen?). Improvised Garottes (chain, optical cable, etc.) does only (STR+1)M Stun but costs absolutely nothing. Concealability is pretty much on the 12-15 level. Availability should be around 8/1 week, 14/2 weeks, and Always respectively.

How's that for a base to work off of?

I'd add a physical damage component of (Str+1)L to that (Str+1)S Stun. Slicing through your neck is decidedly messy and unpleasant.

Other than that, though, pretty solid, I think, though I'd make normal garrotes far easier to get ahold of than 8/1 week, and definitely 16 concealability; they are quite tiny.

and can be made by a usefull length of wire and some handles (to lengths of pipe, wood or similar).

the nasty thing about a garotte is that when your trapped in one its allmost imposible to get out unless you get into contact with the user, and as the garotte allows him to keep you at allmost an arms length compared to face or body grip where your in direct contact with him and may well send a elbow into his side or similar if you dont panic.

still my idea of a clean takedown would be cloroform soked cloth or similar over someones face and when they pass out your free to do whatever you feel like.

just make sure that your target cant kick anything noisy over or similar...

Uh, I don't know what you think a garrote is, but you have to be in direct contact with your victim to you use it. You are absolutely not at arm's length. This thing's not a lasso.

Yeah, I know. I'm pointing out that there a positions in which the target can't attack effectively. I was thinking that was the spirit of hob's post.

I know I'd have trouble finding a premade garrote just sitting on someone's shelf. I mean, the demand is just unbelievable, so surely every pawn shop and drug lord has fifty of 'em sitting on their shelves...

You can find them in art stores. They're used for cutting clay.

~J

But are they perfect length for strangling, with a virtual guarantee that they won't snap or break while struggling with that ork in a hallway? That's what I meant by a "professional" grade one. Anything less than that, including a clay cutting tool, would fall under Improvised Garrote; it could be anything from a clay cutting tool to just grabbing a length of piano wire and wrapping it around your fists several times to a passionate lashing out with phone cord.

Piano wire? Only if you want things to get a bit bloody. If I were doing it, but quite frankly a couple silenced pistol shots to the back of the head are more my style, I'd want something that was thin enough to be usable whilst thick enough that it doesn't cut through the skin. But then I've probably been playing too much Hitman again.

I need to get some sleep or read more carefully. I thought this was "Rules for strangling a player?" at first...

A clay cutter would basically be on the level of a garrote made specifically for the purpose of strangling. There's really not going to be a discernable difference at the level of abstraction SR operates at. It sure as hell isn't on the level of a piece of phone cord; that much is for certain.

Now that I think about it, a garrot is pretty much the same thing (quality/grade wise) as a club. There are no rules for "Improvised Club."

Its blunt. I hit someone with it. He is hurt. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Its small. When applied to the throat with sufficient pressure its cuts and deprives one of air and blood. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Now the biggy- what skill would you use?

Since I have an... evil... plan for my next character.

Garotte skill (STR linked) that can default to Unarmed Combat or Cyber-Implant Combat.

Something like this is what's probably meant by a professional garotte as opposed to an improvised one like a piece of cord or piano wire.

The main objective of a garrot is to cut the blood supply to the brain. Thats why tightening it really hard is very important, otherwise you just strangulates the "subject".

Cutting the blood supply to the brain is an extremely efficient way to cause stun damage (and overflow).

Before sciences discovered different forms of chemicals to use as amnesie(?) during surgery, a common practise was to lay pressure on the arteries (on the neck) that supplies the brain with blood.
The "patient" would go unconsious in few seconds, by cutting the blood supply to the brain is much more efficient than strangulation. In case of strangulation or drowning, the "subject" still got air in his lungs, and oxygen in his blood, that might be circulated a couple of time before the "subject" loose consiounes. This is not the case with a garrot, the blood circulation to the brain stops!

Therefor I would say that the victim goes unconsinous after a full combat turn e.i. 3 seconds.

Unless they succeed in an opposed strenght test, where the attacker got a bonus of +4 to strenght. The victim is in panic, and the attacker got a clear advantage.

Or in case of the victim succeeds to deal out a wound to the attacker (at least a +2 target number). The attacker has to succeed a willpower 4 + wound modifier test to keep the pressure on the garrot.

But unless its a victime who is very experienced, they will try to do the opposed strength test first, sheer instinct. And in general "people" don't know how efficient such a thing is ...... and 3 seconds isn't really much time to react in (better hope you got some reflexes)

Personally, I would say that it is a bad idea. Narcoject, taser, etc. can incapacitate and then you can calmly place your knife right where it needs to go.

That said, I would make it exempt from normal combat rules. It is a kind of 'works or not' weapon. I would say that it you a) surprise your opponent and b) get it around their neck fast enough, they are dead. So... Stealth test, surprise test and remember not to let go too soon.

Or perhaps it is a 3M (s) weapon which scales up/down for each single success, which you use unopposed as long as you strike from a position of surprise. That way, bad luck could foil your plan but an experienced killer suffers less from the effects of chance. BUT... any partial neck armour (high collar - suit, coat, cloak / any helmet ) and it's impact rating gets added to your TN. (to simpulate the skill needed to get the wire into a space) Full neck armour (anything better than a long-coat or a ballistic jacket) makes it totally inneffective.

I.e. you roll your Garotte skill against static TN (perhaps 3) and you get two successes; it scales to deadly. The opponent gets no body roll either. Guard is down...

If you had failed your surprise roll, you both roll as normal melee and you are using a totally unsuitable weapon.

Have you ever watched a movie where someone used a garotte?

Even if you fail to kill your opponent, you leave them winded and gasping for air (ie, Stun damage). You don't need surprise to grapple and strangle your opponent, though it helps a great deal. Grappling, or as its called in CC "Subduing Combat," allows you to do normal Stun damage if successful to begin with; the garotte only increases that, allowing you to strangle your opponent more efficiently.

And as a Reach -1 weapon, it is "totally unsuitable" for combat situations, especially since it only does damage if you've successfully grappled your opponent in the first place. A static TN is already in place (4 with a +2 modifier for subdual combat if/when the opponent is aware of your presence -- something he potentially doesn't get if you Surprised him). Your skill at using a garotte increases your chances of successfully disabling your opponent quickly and efficiently.

Really, beyond the stats for the weapon, no house rules need to apply. The rules already cover it, even if its not called "strangulation." If anything, you may just want to change the Subduing Combat rules so that it uses Strength as the opposed Attribute instead of Quickness.