Hi,

So about a year ago, nearly to the day I got Fragged by a particularly nasty form of Black IC (Unique identifier r34L Lyf3).

it's been quiet in my padded cell, the troll in the corner is mostly peaceful and I save a bit of soy-paste to placate it every so often.

and then some idiot opened the door with the words "Let's get a Shadow Run 3rd game on!"

Mouth engaged before brain, to respond in the affirmative Chummer!

and I'm suddenly embroiled in char creation again... now my brain hurts.

I guess there's a point I should get to, I'm in over my head,
and last time that happened a Dwarf Rigger was born that had no right to live with mediocre skills and zero understanding of the world he lived in.

Now, I'm going to simplify things for myself, I'm going to write up a concept here and ask for your help in fleshing out some skills, powers and wares that I should take

***NOTA BENE*** this is not an exercise in munchkinry,
but I would like to be on a level playing field with the other team members who can be best described as Psycho murder hobos on acid!

So here goes :

Silas is an ork street kid with a keen interest in 20th century comic book heros,
in fact he's memorized all the ones he can get and has taken to enacting scenes from TMNT with his buds.

the last one got him in deep trouble as he interrupted a "Run" in progress leading to the team to bungle the op and barely escape, taking Silas with them as hostage.

This was officially the most awesome day in his life thus far and he now craves more of that action.

so I have so far chosen
A: Attribs
B: Magic (Adept)
C: Resources
D: Race
E: Skills

Skills as E as there is a further 60 Karma to spend on bringing him up to par. .. but I can be convinced to swap around

I have spent 4 magic points on powers and sacrified 2 points of essence in ware and Bio.
Suprathyroid and muscle replacement I think + Data jack & Smartlink2

Powers are improved reflexes
Counter strike
Flare comp
Blind fight
Thermo vision

Skills are mostly in true turtle style
some stealth,
mostly unarmed with pistols as a backup
sword

Breaking and entering skills (electronics and B/R car)

Gear is very basic due to funds and his beginnings as a street punk.

_____________

So, what would work better do you think ?

1.)
How set are you on Ork instead of Dorf?
Dorf starts with Thermo-Vision so potential to save on Magic there already.
Couple that with the edge that gives natural low light, then have one single cyber-eye with eye-light and you will never ever need to spend magic on blind fighting and microscopic vision for improved TNs in lockpicking and technical skills.

Plastic Bone-Lace would be a nice to have thing for a brawler kind of character.

Pretty set, the rigger was a dwarf and my cleric is always a dwarf... I'm going up in the trog world, at least height wise

again, not looking to min/max the powers otherwise it'd be full of killing hands etc.

more of advice on what areas to avoid .. or not forget about, whats a good armour combo (assume 7 quickness and good body scores)

tips n tricks ... or if you have an archetype that's worth looking at to crib from ?

input appreciated

**Edit** to add, good to see you still around Stahl

Formfitting Body Armour and Camo-Full-Suit < = best combination probably.
Maybe the Arsenal Armor for couriers, the Coverall.
Remember, body does not factor into how much armor you can have in SR3.
That was only introduced as of SR4.
The only limiter you have on armor is the only highest counts full,s econd highest only 50% and then problems with combat pool and dodge TN and the such.
If you go for high Quick, Whips might be a usefull skill to have.
Otherwise Thrown and definitely Club as Weapon-Skill. Everything you can pick up can be used as one or both of these.
You can usually smuggle one or two of these around, if you use it as a Belt and simply chains on leatherjacket for example.

Instead of Pistols maybe Shotguns? More reach, can be used as a club too. And more Damage if needed be as well.

As an Adept, you need to REALLY focus at the start of the game and the broaden your horizons usually, because you are very strapped for points.

The limitations on combat pool stem from the relation between total armor points (impact and ballistic) vs. Quickness. Dodge TN is not influenced by armor (as "stupid" as it might seem). However, when layering armor (with the exception of FFBA and one particular coat) you can suffer TN modifiers to all Quickness related tests (Attribute Tests and Skill Tests linked to Quickness). However, with his given value of Quick 7 there aren't to many layered armor combinations that would incur either penalties.

As far as the "best" armor layered armor combination is concerned for a starting character the full FFBA + Camo full suit is indeed pretty much "best in slot", baring some more creative additions. Although you technically can spice it up without adding more armor with Ruthenium Polymer coated black "camo" full suit + 12 scanners which allows you to either change to any given camo pattern (without movement restrictions) or going for the Predator-like invisibility (which has limitations for maximum movement rates without giving your position away pretty much instantly). However, that's nothing you'll see on a character with C priority on resources.

@Mach_Ten:

As far as the "super hero" interest and TMNT association is concerned I'd say that a sword / swords would indicate Leonardo. Stuff like B&E skills (Electronics in particular) would be more in the domain of Donatello. The "best day of life" attitude would suit Michelangelo ... and I guess the common Ork stereotype about aggressive and short-tempered nature would complete the team by adding Raphael in the mix. Is that on purpose or do you intend to have Silas an even more focused resemblance to any of the Turtles?

Before giving suggestions I'd like to hear if I correctly asserted the chosen power levels and associated costs:

Improved Reflexes Level I: 2 power points for +2 reaction +1D6 initiative
Blind Fighting: 0.5 power points
Improved Senses (Thermo): 0.25 power points
Improved Senses (Flare Comp): 0.25 power points
Counter Strike Level II: 1 power point (0.5 per level)

Since you mentioned that you could be persuaded to change priority orders does that refer to just E for skills vs. anything but Magic with B or does that include swapping things like A for attributes and C for resources as well?

Also a general question: Is priority chargen a "must"? Reason for asking: The point built system would allow to have things like 200k starting resources and attribute point totals not numbered in steps of 3.

With Ressources at Priority C, he is not going to be able to afford the ruthenium stuff, else i'd have recommended it too.
For some more Armor: Forearm Guards straight up add +1 impact Armor. And it depends on how hard you can haggle for the Hat and the shawl to add another +1/+1 . .
There is no ballistic mask as there is in SR4, if it isn't hidden very cleverly in some splat book somewhere . .

One major point i forgot:
how set are you on the priority system instead of point buy?

And if you are set on using the priority system, one of the most broken builds has always been Adept with 1 Million Nuyen.
Because then you can actually have your cake and eat it too . .

Thanks guys,

I'll try and quickly broaden this out

Flaw 1 : Impulsive (2)
Flaw 2 : oblivious (2)
Background skill Interest: 20th Century comics (6)

Silas street name is Rembrandt, he see's himself as the 5th turtle who embodies the best of the turtles ideals and is yet to choose his signature fighting style
while incidentally probably encompasses all of their individual flaws ...
he's the biggest fan (and I freely admit I personally am not, although it was my childhood fave TV series)
so there's no 'Focus' on one personality, more of a
"Man, what would LEO do in this situation?!"
or
" in #51-city-at-war-part-ii There's this totally radical part where the guys are ..... etc."

GM has just confirmed we can use Martial arts from cannon comp. so I need to look into that and skills

the power points are correct, except I have spent some of the additional 60 Karma to initiate and Improved reflexes 2 for the extra PP

Chargen is fixed at priority as we are joining an existing group who used the same rules for fairness.

cool thanks, will maybe drop BOD a few points, but I already have a possible strength of 10 (with race, edges and ware etc.) it seems excessive
so not sure what else to do with those points... but swapping it all around just wastes an A on magic ... or a stupidly high attribs and no resources.

I guess I'm just stuck on being a young impressionable orc with a burning need to be a hero turtle !
getting it to fit around the skeleton of creation is hard

I LOVE the idea of chains as a jacket ornament / weapon for those "oh crap" moments when unarmed will not work
and yeah .. I want him to focus on unarmed / non-lethal ... we already have enough psycho murderers in the team

shotguns filled with rubber bullets ... fun times.

Your last point is the hard one, in trying to be a character in his own right, I lose the focus needed to excel in a team.
but .. I haven't met the team yet, so fitting needs around them is difficult
so I end up as a "BARD"

I'm okay with this ! ... I like Bards! but I guess I need my focus area to get the attention of a Johnson in the first place.
H-2-H combat
stealth
basic technical skills for B&E
.... specialist area?? I'm stuck

Hell no! Never lower body if you can lower something else <.< This goes DOUBLE if you are intending on fighting a lot.
Body is the king stat in SR3, followed by QCK for gunbunnies/sneaks and STR for heavy gunners and brawlers.

For unarmd, always go with specialisation fists < = stun glove, hardliner glove, it's just too good a specialization to not take.
Especially seeing how if you do use a kick, you gain 1 point of reach which can either lower your own target number by 1 or increase your targets tn by 1, so even if you have a bit less in terms of dice to roll around, the probability of connecting does not change that much.

I never was a big fan of the martial arts of cannon companion . . way too complicated and too many drawbacks for my liking . .

In terms of whips . . have him wear a hat and be from indiana

Stealth . . i would not bother too much with actually . . if you can't afford sneaky gear, you will be noticed anyway and if you can afford it, you don't need too high a skill because the gear will do most of the work for you
Same with the breaking and entering stuff actually.

Oh, mucho importante!
If you actually do go for some bladed weapons, do remember this fact:
Dikote is still a thing in SR3!

meant to look up the availability last night but forgot, still restricted by starting rules ...

but am beginning to shy away from lethal weaponry .. in favour of stuns and disabling attacks with gel rounds

Impact armour in SR3 seems to be lower on most mooks

It is generally harder to get impact armor up than it is to get ballistic up.
That's why stun then kill has become a thing.

okay,

I might be able to use Point buy,

tried it last night but it turned out so much worse than priority, am I doin it wrong ?

200,000 nuyen
Ork
adept.

ended up with only 22 Attribs and 5 active skills (NSRCG) ... weird

Point buy is for more granularity and you can get some points by being creative with edges and flaws.

I kinda expected it to work out that way but it didn't

forgive my numbers (not memorised them) but I get:

A 1,000,000 nuyen
B Adept
C 22 attribs
D Ork
E 27 skills

from point buy
I'm only after 200,000 nuyen and a mild improvement on the skills or stats above, but it turns out massively worse.
22 attribs and 5 skills

I'm not trying to game the system here to my benefit, I just thought I am doing something terribly wrong and not getting the granularity

Priority gives 1 Million Nuyen, Adept, Ork, 24 Attributes and 27 Skills.
Points gives 200k Nuyen, Adept, Ork, 22 Attributes and 16 Skills.
At default campaign using 105 points.

I think i remember now why i thought points would be better.
Because many use 123 instead of 105 points, and thus get out more.
Out group used to do that too, and on 123 points, you get 22 Attributes and 34 Skills.

At 116 Points used, you get out with 22 Attribute Points and 27 Skills.
So you are at the same Attribute and Skill Numbers, but only at 20% starting money <.<

For 1 Million Nuyen, Adept, Ork, 22 Attributes and 27 Skills, you would need to use 131 Points.

Considering that a High Level Campaign only uses 140 Starting Points . . yeah . .

The main advantage of the point buy system is the more granularity in terms of how many monies you want as starting ressources and the ability to buy edges or get points for skills/attributes by taking flaws . .

okee doke, sticking with my priority build

cheers Stahl'

np, bored at work, connected to home machine remotely and am tinkering with NSRCG3

same situation here, but can only get to my SR3 dropbox as work would have a coronary if I tried a remote connection or installed NSRCG at work

going to try and squeeze a 123 pointer past the GM and see what he thinks..

already know the flaws and edges are :
Impulsive / oblivious
extra BOD/ exceptional STR

burning 2 points of magic on bone lace . enhanced articulation, suprathyroid etc.. they are just so cheap over Adept PP.

will initiate once I think for a magic point and get counterstrike ... should be a fairly rounded character after all this..

Thanks for the math ... appreciate it

The Min/Max is strong in this one ^^
Try and squeeze in alpha smartlink.
Maybe Smartlink 2, if allowed.

Those are words I have heard from the group, I mean the "Enhanced articulation" words ...

totally not my fault if I looked at them and my first thought was "YOINK!"

This coming from the person who has read some of your previous entries into the "Broken beginning Archetype of fame" honour roll

Mr. 6 skills and 18 dice ! starting char ...

I think I can imagine the looks on my friends faces if I put that piece of work on the table and tried to keep a straight face.

The GM would allow me a brief funeral I think... or maybe just incinerate me on the spot.

Allowed and yes I will,

the extra cash allows me to be much more flexible in my utility gear ... climbing stuff and B&E kit ...

excited about our first session of play on sunday, been too long away from Shadowrun.

Skillwise, it's always the wiser choice to go into width and get mods to the TN than to go into high skill numbers and rely on luck on the roll.
18 dice for a starting skill is with pure adept built, 6 skill, 6 improved ability and 6 (combat) pool.
Pretty limited, but it makes people pause for a bit, when you do it the first time.
If you want something a bit more usefull, i have a built where i have 16 skills with 8+ dice.
Without cheating and using magic.

For climbing, impact armor actually helps mitigate fall damage for a bit. Not much though, simply because the damage as usual ramps up much faster than armor.
Mystical Armor for an Adept in SR3 only gave impact armor and made such things a bit more feasible. In SR4, it gives both impact and ballistic armor <.<
Still, get gecko tape stuff and do what you can to simply not fall.

Hmm good point, raises a question I asked myself last night ... is it better to buy specialisation at char gen, or with Karma?

Honestly, no, but thankyou... I enjoy building my char a bit organically around the concept ..

"builds" don't feel to be mine, if that makes sense.

Now I know the irony is that I'm on here asking for build advice,
but I'm not taking it verbatim, adding my own flair and ignoring some bits that feel off.

It was a testbed character to see wether or not i could actually find a way to make skillwires usefull without the drawbacks . .

For a real character concept, i have an Ork Firefighter.

It's better to specialize in char gen, because it's cheaper and easier and faster to get some low ranks in skills in game than to raise a skill just a bit further.

In SR3, you go for some good Attributes for your choice of activity, then get these skills as high as you can justify to both yourself and the GM, then pad out with some all around usefull skills at mid levels and get some low level flavour skills usually.

I haven't quite had the time to think about giving some hint / suggestions. So at this point just a more general comments:

On build point vs. priorities:

The build point system has the tendency to favor mundane characters over magically active ones. However, it allows for combinations that simply can't be done in priority system.

On implants:

You obviously are allowed to use Bioware for your starting character, so I'd suggest reconsidering the use of muscle replacement cyberware due to the following reasons:

1. Their quickness bons IIRC is explicitly exempted from reaction calculation while Bioware pendants do not suffer from that restriction.
2. Their status as cybersystem has ramifications for maximum skill levels for strength based skills which are of importance for melee oriented characters to some degree. Unless you're already aiming for natural strength of 6 (including racial modifiers) that could influence the number of needed skill points for your core melee skill. Bioware does count as natural and - depending on GM's agreement - will form the basis for skill cost calculation even during character generation.
   
   Side note: Strength - despite being an important attribute for melee oriented characters - can be "min-/maxed" to a certain degree because at some point you'll just face too much of diminishing returns on even higher strength values.
3. The Bioware systems Muscle Augmentation and Muscle Toner allow independent increases to strength and quickness
4. The impact on magic is usually lower or can be tailored better to have less impact. But ofc the impact on monetary resources is somewhat higher

As far as your Smartlink is concerned you should have a closer look at the more detailed subsystems in Man & Machine because technically you could opt for a less standardized setup where you use the following cyber- and noncybersystems:

1. Image Link instead of standard smart link eye display (higher essence cost but more versatile)
2. Limited Simrig (no replacement there)
3. datajack (+plus optical wire to your gun) instead of a standard induction pad (again higher essence cost) for transmitting gun data to the smart system.
4. Smart processor of choice (no replacement possible)
5. Rangefinder / Personal safety are optional

Despite having an external component in for of an optical wire, this setup does still allow for the full smart bonus and the datajack / image link implants provide more overall "bang for the buck" (just not for combat). And the cable would give the character a more "cyberpunk" touch in my opinion.

On melee skills:

Since you my go for Martial Arts according to one of your postings, I'd suggest looking at Pentjak-Silat and Arnis de Mano (or equivalents) for Martial Arts that allow transfering learned maneuvers onto melee weapons as separate maneuvers. Arnis being my personal favorite due to allowing it for both clubs and edged weapons.
Ninjutsu would allow transferring on all melee skills but the constraints of Ninja Clan or Renegade Master are kind of too intrusive particular for the type of character background you have presented so far.

More thoughts later ...

Something very important that was forgotten:
If you go for UNARMED close combat, then get some sort of elemental effect to negate enemy Armor.
Doubling STR is expensive, halving armor is cheap. And let me tell you as the usually dedicated Tank:
hellishly annoying for people like me as well <.<
As said above, TN is more important than dice pool. And if you can somebody deprive somebody of half of thier armor to resist your punches, then you usuylla double their TN.
Let's go with the STR10M Damage and 6 points of Impact Armor Example.
TN to resist your damage on a Hit is 10-6 so 4. If you can halve the armor, it becomes 10-3=7, which is much harder already.

okay here we go


I avoided the smart link for a couple reasons 1. I can't afford the essence (magic) loss
and actually .. in keeping with my non-lethal mentality, I don't want to be really good with it.. it's my oversized holdout for laying down clouds of pepper punch
it can be someone elses job on the team to hand out the murder/death/kill

So, on the FFBA, it doesn't count towards the encumbrance limits, do can you stack something else on top ?
or is it just ther best combo?

With that name, i'd not expect something fast with little tanky bits in them ^^

I don't think you can use capsule rounds in anything else but a very specialized "gun", so i don't think it will work in the Defiance T-250.
I'd go with Gel-Ammo there. It lowers the Damage from 10S to 8M Stun, but it will knock ANYTHING over, because it adds +1 to the weapon base damage level just for the knock down test, and at deadly knock down it's an automatic knock down. I am not sure wether or not gel rounds are resisted with impact or ballistic armor right now, sorry . .

The WORN Armor in SR3 works as follows:
You get full benefit from the highest armor. The 2nd highest armor gets halved an stacked on top of the highest armor.
Nothing else counts, aside from buit in stuff like from bonelace, orthoskin, dermatech, magical armor like the mystical armor adept power and the armor spells.
There are little bits and bobs that straight up add +1 to ballistic or impact or maybe even both, but these are usually meant to be worn with other specialized armor from canon companion if i remember correctly.
So best Combo in most cases is simply the full camo suit and the full body formfitting body armor suit under that.

so, first session over ... it was pretty awesome to be honest.

not going into details too much, but a few things worked out and others, the GM has asked (allowed) me to change.

first off the Edge: Aptitude: Martial art ... not allowed no great shakes, I'll swap it for athletics..

or do we think aptitude centering would be as equally unfair ? ( I might ask)

this leads me onto another question, as an unarmed adept, without killing hands, other than REACH is there a way to lower the target numbers for an attack ?

_______________

I did have some success with the MA: manoeuvres ... Sweep against heavily armoured enemies, and then stomp on their faces with an easier called shot.

Someone else threw IR Smoke grenades and the I step in with Blindfight and more called shots to negate armour

this only worked as their penalties to fight back made it very hard for them, I was still on TN's of 10+ but they stood little chance of countering.
_______________

I have one more manoeuvre ... I have chosen Ground fighting which negates enemies benefits if they get me prone, BUT
considering I have Zero Reach ... I wonder if Close Combat would be better... but it lowers the damage of my attacks.
poor trade-off ? or worth it.
_______________

and lastly the Adept powers, Improved reflexes (2) Counterstrike (2) and Nerve strike (1)

Nerve strike, considering the power of my stun attacks is counter productive and a waste.

I thought I could use it to make men wearing big armour essentially unable to function by lowering their quickness,

but without being able to hit them due to stupid high TN's it's a waste.

I've looked at the full list and all are allowed (Apart from the homebrew Adept Handybook) I don't know what to replace it with.
_______________

Thanks again for all the advice so far guys,

the character is FUN to play and is effective in combat with tactical options.

nearly finalised now

Exactly ... nobody expects the Spanish inquisition Ninja Turtles

Got Gel rounds as well, I'll have a look at capsule rounds for shotguns, actually thought they'd be more viable than most rifled barrels though .

and it's only pepper punch, not like I'm trying to deliver narcojet

**EDIT**





snipped for emphasis.

looks good to me

Yeah, the aptitude thing says a GM should STRONGLY consider what it can be applied to.
Centerin itself is not a skill. Adept Centering is a Metamagic for Adepts only.
You need an artistic skill for it to work as well and i think to that you could apply aptitude.

And no, there is no way to lower your TN to hit aside from reach.
Which is why kicks can be a bonus feature, as kicks give +1 reach.
Unarmed Adepts work by raising enemy TN, not lowering their own.
That's for people using melee weapons, especially things like pole-arms.
Elongated Limbs would give you reach, but also make you look like a freak.

Ah, ok, i thought it was only that one silly AR that can use these capsule rounds.

Unfairness lies in the eyes of the beholder there. Centering usually generates successes at a 2:1 ratio, so it's less of a problem than aptitudes on archetype defining (combat) skills.



Metamagic 'Atunement (item)' on melee weapons that use "unarmed". Examples would be Hardliner gloves (+1 to attack power) or shock glove (-1 to attack power but secondary electrical damage) => -1 TN

Centering against penalties instead of Centering for successes will lower TNs that are above base TN of 4. Not so much required if you opt for Close Combat maneuver.

edit: Almost forgot the most obvious one that even double dips: Friends in melee will raise opponent TNs and lower your own at the same time. But this will also work against you



Usually "worth it". Mainly because you already have STR values that are high enough to make that -1 negliable.



The 2:1 success ratio in conjunction with the high TNs pretty much kills this power for anything but rather extreme cases of specialization on melee with just that power in mind. You're usually better off by simply knocking opponents out.



Additional levels of Counterstrike (defensive) or Improved Ability (Martial Art of choice) (offensive) would certainly be a good option.

Another possible combination:

1. Multitasking (2 free actions instead of one per [own? can't quite remember] combat phase => Centering for success + whatever free actions you normally want to take are possible for the same combat phase).
2. Nimble Fingers: Various actions become free actions instead of simple action.

IIRC they are 0.5 power points each.

I need help with tactics or moves to make this work, I happened accidentally upon the sweep / smoke / targeted attack.

but the GM will soon cotton onto this if I keep doing it, I need more in my arsenal

Distance Strike, it is basically (magic)m of reach, but it does not change your TN to hit that much, it just makes unarmed combat a one way ticket, because at that distance, the enemy can't retaliate.
So this is only usefull for if your skill is low enough that you won't reliably roll more hits than the enemy, because otherwise, even if he attacks you, especially with counter strike, you deal damage.

For adept powers I always thought 'traceless walk' was fun, though less about combat. Missile Mastery is cool and surely useful for all those Foot Shuriken coming your way.

For even less useful suggestions, how violently would your GM react to taking 2 stun batons, a piece of cord, and creating some "Stun-chaku"? I also noticed your gear list is missing a large riot shield (strapped to your back and painted green, ofcourse).

On the martial arts front, am I too late to suggest "Anything with Whirling"?

I now have Traceless walk and improved quickness.. for this exact reason, fun!

probably very... but now I need to ask .. right now !!

You read my mind and it was about to appear on my char sheet on sunday up until the point I read about it negating reach on both sides and being a pain to use.
I'm not going to gimp myself too badly for the look & feel

I have a 3-section staff (Whips)
Nunchuk (Whips)
and the martial art Sweep

LOTS of whirling

all good ideas and I thanks you

Wait a sec there... "Sweep" is no Martial Art, that's a maneuver you can learn with some of the Martial Arts ... and it merely applies to the named Martial Art itself unless the bonus of the Martial Art allows relearning it for an armed melee skill.

Ninjutsu does allow retraining maneuvers with Whips, I gather that is what he has done.

You'd still need the maneuver for both Ninjutsu and whips separately ... the drawback of Ninjutsu is still a bit unfitting for the character's presented background. Although a rogue Ninja as teacher would fit the Splinter angle quite well ... if the charakter was an actual turtle and not just someone who takes them as personal heros.

I have Ninjutsu at rank 6
this presents me 3 manoeuvre (currently Blind fight, close combat and sweep)
when I get to rank 8 I can take another one OR apply one I already know to whips ... probably will be sweep

it has to be one I already know.


exactly this, but there's ways to make it work in current world ...
in game terms, this could be a rival gang and a rival Shredder gang leader vs. "Master Splinter" type teacher.

I went the rogue Ninja as teacher and GM is happy to have me hunted, it's down on the sheet as "Foot Clan" ... I'm pleading the gang angle.

to be honest, our first session ended with us on a sinking ship and transferring to a submarine as captives headed for god knows where...
the "Hook" from this flaw is going to be a Long time coming!!

With the given explanation that would have been okay for me as GM as well.



Slight correction there. For every two points of skill rating you must have at least one maneuver before you can learn the next skill level. This results in the following mandatory progression:

skill 1 => skill 2 => maneuver 1 => skill 3 => skill 4 => maneuver 2 => skill 5 => skill 6 => maneuver 3 => skill 7 => skill 8 => maneuver 4

You don't get the maneuvers for free and you could learn the mandatory maneuver at odd skill ratings if you wanted. You could even learn 2 maneuvers per two full skill points if you really wanted and thus have enough already when hitting the next limit where it would normally become mandatory ... you could even have up to 6 maneuvers with your Ninjutsu skill 6. This would have been possible during character generation but the costs for those additional maneuvers is just too prohibitive to make it viable

Oh I see,

need 2 skill points to begin, and must learn a manoeuvre to advance to the next 2 skill points, repeat...

makes sense now ( the CC. does not unless you read it in it's entirety.... and who .. nvm)

good thing I bought my Ninjutsu outside of creation with 60 karma for experience...

I honestly can't say if NSRCG charged me for the manoeuvres at 2 karma per ... but what's 6 karma between friends eh?

just add up my math for me ..

quickness now 8

Camo jacket 5/3
vest 2/1
FFBA full 4/1
rapid transit helmet 0/2
forearm guard 0/1

is that 8/8 and legal ?

7/7 at max, the vest won't count one way or another.
Fully apply the Camo-Jacket, because it's the biggest sole contributor at 5/3.
Apply HALF of the FFBA Suit for either 2/1 or if your GM is hard up on you for 2/0
Now you are at 7/4 or 7/3 depending on your GM.
From forearm guards straight up ADD +0/1 for 7/5 or 7/4 depending on the GM.
MAYBE add +0/2 from the Helmet, but probably not, because that is one of these special armor things that is meant to be worn with the rest of the rapid transit series.
So either you are stuck at 7/7 at maximum if you are allowed to do all that, or 7/6 if your GM decides that if armor goes below 1 due to halving it becomes 0 or 7/5
if the Gm decides to not allow the helmet to simply stack into the rest of the things because they are not parts of the rapid transit series.
Anyway, the 2/1 or maybe even only 2/0 from the formfitting full body suit won't count towards encumbrance, so you are, in terms of encumbrance, only at 5/4 at maximum.
Also, you mean a full camo suit, not the camo jacket. the camo jacket only has 3/1 ballistic/impact armor.

IF you can convince your GM to allow you to use the piecemeal designer armor things, you might want to take a look at the victory industrious winter with 4/4 armor.
And the Armanté Ancien Shawl for another +1/0 Ballistic/Impact.

At that point, even though you are not quite moving like one, you will start resembling a turtle in figure at least. And you street nickname will become bibendum / michelin man!

spot on mate thanks... makes sense. and I'm quite happy on 7/7

I've looked all over for an image to depict the look and this is as close as I can get:
Future samurai armour

and the Rapid transit helmet in a distinctive style

Well, there IS Corp-Sec and Milspec Armor if you can get your grubby mitts on that . .
And for the Rigger, JIM-Suits

Since the layering rules explicitly mention "round down" there's not much of being "hard" there.



7/4 in melee and 7/3 against ranged attacks without the helmet



No such problem with the helmet of the trans rapid jumpsuit. If worn you get the +0/+2 (in melee and in ranged). And even the actual "sets" do not prohibit an independant use. It's just that half points of armor aren't worth anything.


However, for a melee oriented character I'd go a slightly different route that puts more emphasis on impact armor rather than ballistic armor.

Like

1. Rapid Transit Heavy Jumpsuit 2/4
2. FFBA fullsuit 4/1
3. Rapid Transit Helmet +0/+2
4. Forearm guard +0/+1

.. for a final armor value of 5/6 in ranged and 5/7 in melee

Unfortunately with (cybered) QUI 7 any additional point of impact armor that isn't exempted from penalty calculations would already induce a TN penalty on Quickness Tests and Quickness related Skill test as well as movement rates ... so that's the current maximum on that end.
Combat Pool penalties are no problem for that setup, because just 2 points of ballistic armor are considered for that.

Going for the 4/4 winterized coverall instead of the Jumpsuit doesn't work yet (combined ballistic values would not be high enough to cause CP dice loss, but would cause Quickness related penalties until effective Quickness is raised to . But wearing a winterized coverall plus additional armor could lead to a GM who makes the character suffer from body overheat.

At Quickness 9 you could add a stylish Crimson Sky Leather Jacket at 2/2 to the above mentioned setup (with the Jumpsuit) for total armor values of 6/7 in ranged and 6/8 in melee

I got to ask is your GM playing with weight allowance? Either way how much does your combat load out weight? You know like gear on a run weigh out to.

we don't go into that much depth unless it's massively important to the story (on the run for our lives without transportation etc.)

But, if we did, STR 10 should cover pretty much all my problems

encumbrance rules and stacking of armour is as deep as we want our crunch to go.