Looking back, I think you are right about SR3. I'm pretty sure SR2 was every action (but I may be wrong), and as a group, we chose to house rule it that it was every action in SR3, as a carryover from SR2.

Oh, it's been so long.

The title of "best" usually goes to the one dominating the market. The "best" OS can be said to be Windows. The "best" product is the one that is in everyone's hand. This is how competitors carve out a nice. Fix the defects of the most common product. The Predator is the "best" because it has a nice mix of reliability (this is fluff, no mechanics for it), price and features. Another company can EASILY make a gun that is "better", but the price won't be in the sweet spot, it'll be far more expensive.

Swan is incorrect. The more actions you had the thinner you had to stretch your pools. It was a check against them, but hey, extra attacks with no pool die was better than no extra attacks at all.

That's a fair enough point, but I'd bet more people than not see the Predator line as top shelf.

They might do that, but that doesn't mean it actually is top shelf.

On other front it's pretty cool that mages can now cast a spell with a simple action if their willing to take a higher drain.

The only place I remember the Predator being mentioned as the Best Gun ™, is in the flavour text of Street Samurai Catalogue under the Predator 2, but that is just a sales blurb.

I don't like how they have messed with the actions. Just adds more mess to the situation. IMNSHO.

I don't buy it there are too many differences. Ares the AAA with the most focus on guns makes mediocre guns and weapons of war at best Ares has a reputation for making the best guns, yet they are far from it. Windows does not have a reputation for being the best operating system, just the one that is so universal that it would by unwise to go with other models for most people as you will need programs, support, ability to interact with others etc that most used helps with. Basically the title of best uusally goes to the one that is best, others may dominate the market for a variety of reasons but people know that their Oyster blender is not the best blender in the world, its just a good one for under $100.

I am compelled to agree. Best means best. Not best of the most affordable. The Wii was the most affordable and had the the largest number of sales per capita, but it was far from the best gaming system. Both the XBox 360 and PS3 were far better units (IMHO), just not as affordable.

Actually, I am not. *shrug*

Before I say anything, I'd like to note I haven't yet finished the preview - not too much time at hand lately.

I am kinda puzzled by trolls now being slower - what is the reason for such a radical change from 4E?
The example on p.162 is a mess, switching between hypothetical situations on the fly.

Why did they get faster in the first place?

Trolls were depicted with short legs for their bodies it seems to me there is a good chance they would be slow.

It is not a big deal to me one way or the other, but 4e changed it so why not change back?

Admitedly as the top melee race ground speed would be a good trait for them.

Because they are larger, and larger animals tend to run faster if only because a single step moves them further.

Anyone else wondering if a Smartlink will allow a weapon to return to firing two SA/Bursts in an action, instead of just one?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

There are numerous situations where smaller creatures move faster and larger creatures move slower than just their height would indicate. Trolls being large but with stunty legs would not move firther in a single step and would likely move slower because those stunty legs have to propel a really large mass.

Can I give this a thumbs up?

How about two?

Slow acceleration, but would cover more ground when up to speed.

But too much to put into a non-grid combat system, IMO.


Wonder how it will be handled in the ganger minis games?

Elephants have a much slower land speed than many animals smaller than them.

Like say, almost all of them. Heck, I think even my cats could out-pace an elephant.

You're forgetting that in Storm Front, it is specifically described that Ares is falling off and the Excalibur turned out to be straight-up defective, perhaps as a result of industrial sabotage, causing Ares's position as a AAA megacorp to be in serious jeopardy. It's strongly hinted that the fall of Ares will be one of the first metaplot points of 5th edition. So, makes perfect sense that Ares guns are no better than the competition- maybe even a little worse.

Sprint/Marathon

For further discussion of this topic, use the other thread.

Heh, amusing thought, but I bet it just means your matrix programs now have effective accuracy and can be reduced in efficiency due to matrix combat.

If I recall right, didn't one of the more recent material allude to the original Dodger having a hand in the new forthcoming Matrix and he was big on sculpting the virtual landscape, so maybe your programs are having a more object based appearance.

apples and oranges

Really, guys, Grinder's already asked you to stop once. If you're going to have this stupid argument, can you please take it somewhere else?

I know people have been asked to stop the runner conversation, but here's my two cents.

I think the smaller metatypes make better runners. Trolls are easily spotted and when someone sees the silhouette of a troll they know what they saw, so the guard can more easily identify them. And you can't blend into a crowd as a Troll, which I find helpful when running. And the extra bodies nice, but you can get that in a dwarf or an orc pretty easily. And the roleplay appeal of playing an ugly creature that is not officially rejected, but still not fully accepted in society can also be gotten through an orc.
And everyone knows that agility is way more important for running than strength, especially if you're going to be a shadowrunner. Agility is linked with shooting and infiltration/stealth skills, which tend to be the most important to running. Strength, sort of meh. It's pretty obvious which one helps in running more if you just compare how often people take muscle toner rather than muscle replacement or muscle augmentation. I don't even see what the debate is. From my experience running, I can tell you that I've always found agility to be more useful than strength, unless I was going to a specialized melee build.

Except that they are not talking about "Running" the Shadows, but actual Running, "the movements."
The relevant value of Agility in character builds is obvious, and pretty much set in stone. The discussion was whether the act of running (Sprinting, jogging, marathon, etc) was a strength based or agility based endeavor IRL. In game, it is also a no-brainer, since it is linked to Strength (at least in SR4A).

And yes, Trolls stand out. Some trolls stand out more than others. I agree that Orcs tend to blend MUCH better in the Shadows, and still get many of the same benefits that Trolls do (impressive Body/Strength scores). I also think that if you are going for a specialized Melee Build, Trolls generally have it, but an Orc (or Metavariant) can get almost as much damage as the Troll does. They are fun builds, to be sure.

Thread closed.