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DeathStrobe
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 16 2015, 03:14 PM) *
That was what happened to a grenade which hit the target with zero net hits on an attack test (if I remember), which wasn't covered in the RAW just the way Foundation dumpshock isn't.



I'm pretty sure it's safe to extrapolate that Foundation dumpshock should be treated as UV Host dumpshock, which both rules are in Data Trails.
binarywraith
Reasonable, yes, if they hadn't printed rules that state it is explicitly impossible to jack out of a Foundation run.

I'm just going to chalk it up to another moment of someone not really knowing the system well enough to grasp the implications of their rules and go with the above.
Sengir
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jun 15 2015, 11:51 PM) *
As far as roleplaying conventions go, "figure out this puzzle or I'll set the whole world upon your character and kill him" is about as far from good practice as it gets, imo.

Obviously, just like the scenario of players hitting F5 until the GM gives up. The point is that if being a jerk is a question of rules and not rule users, the GM would have even more leeway than players.


As to what happens when you jack out of the Foundation? You broke the Consensus and generated Paradox, now reality itself gives you a paddling.

Or more seriously, use some common sense and the rules for UV hosts, what else should it be?
Sendaz
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 17 2015, 05:52 AM) *
Or more seriously, use some common sense and the rules for UV hosts, what else should it be?
EEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-ghostssssssss biggrin.gif

But seriously, it should just be a hard dumpshock on the poor bastard, but then maybe he also leaves a copy behind when he does this. wink.gif
Fatum
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 17 2015, 01:52 PM) *
Obviously, just like the scenario of players hitting F5 until the GM gives up. The point is that if being a jerk is a question of rules and not rule users, the GM would have even more leeway than players.
Rules are a system for conflict resolution. A rulesystem shouldn't specifically hand players tools to be obnoxious, much less provide them with mechanical benefits for doing so.
Wakshaani
Shadowrun's always had a spin of "If it makes for a good story, just kinda wing it." Have you *seen* the equipment lists in 1st edition? biggrin.gif

That said, whenever possible, rules need to be codified and line up, with the GM riding herd over odd situations. Teh default is the Purple Monkey Rule, of course.
Voran
I was hoping for some sort of build rules/guidelines for cyberdecks.

Some other thoughts:


Edit Paradigm: Basically lets you add, edit or subtract a sentence of descriptor: Could you then basically go "...and is also reflective of <insert topic that playerchar has a really good knowledge in> What happens when you have Pride and Prejudice Paradigm, and then you add say....Star Trek?
Could you be like Sheldon cosplaying as a Vulcan at a renfaire?

Lifestyle costs for AI. So if an AI makes a home base in a rating 7 fairlight commlink, with retail price 8000 one time, their new monthly lifestyle cost...is
100,000 nuyen a month?.......what?
nylanfs
QUOTE (Voran @ Jun 19 2015, 09:49 AM) *
I was hoping for some sort of build rules/guidelines for cyberdecks.


You mean like this?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
That is awesome... smile.gif
Sendaz
Put a vibro-bayonet mount on one end and sign me up for one. nyahnyah.gif
Deckbeard
QUOTE (nylanfs @ Jun 19 2015, 10:01 AM) *


God I love that, I just wish he provided more detailed instructions as to how he did it. I've been trying to build my own using a tutorial for a Raspberry Pi tablet as the base and adding in a keyboard in a 3D printed case. As an aside, does anyone here know if/where I could find the 3d models for the Cyberdecks in SR Returns?
Prime Mover
Any theories on purpose of Null Node?
Fatum
Must be something metaplot-related, for sure.
Prime Mover
Some interesting Foundation theories here.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=20945.0
Sendaz
The fact that the Null Node doesn't seem to have anything detectable by us, could mean it could operating at a different level than what we can normally perceive/understand.
Perhaps even serving as a link to some level of consciousness/control by Foundation itself since some individuals mentioned a sensation of being watched while there.

Of course how to make use of this remains a question, maybe one that a TM might be able to explore or even attempt communicating with....
Fatum
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Jul 9 2015, 09:23 AM) *
Some interesting Foundation theories here.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=20945.0
It seems that this is entirely intended, and all will be revealed in time.
TaiChara
Wow. I mean, well, damn.

I pop in to specifically check out this thread because Data Trails finally turned up at the FLGS and there's a freelance writer being this arrogant, condescending and dismissive over and over again, complete with "I guess you must be too unenlightened to ~understand my style choices"-type antics?

Nah, frag this. I don't care what the contents are any more, I'm not touching Data Trails. Not feeling compelled to pursue 5e further in general really, if this is the kind of freelancers that can get added to the team. Pft.
GodForsaken
My first post on the forums! nyahnyah.gif

I guess that negative feedback is a good thing. Though, I am not sure that the SR5 team should spoon feed us with everything about how the SR world works.

I think that there should be a place for a GM interpretation. So if a rule is "missing" or is a bit vague, it might seem unprofessional, but I see it as an opportunity for me as a GM to add my input to the game world. I take a source books like Data Trails as more of suggestions and ideas to how I, as a GM, can expand the universe I am running my game in. I might not like all of it, and some of these rules won't be in my version of Shadowrun.

I do hope that it will provide me with more tools and ideas, because the Matrix is one of the coolest aspects of Shadowun IMO.
Deckbeard
QUOTE (GodForsaken @ Sep 21 2015, 04:23 AM) *
My first post on the forums! nyahnyah.gif

I do hope that it will provide me with more tools and ideas, because the Matrix is one of the coolest aspects of Shadowun IMO.

First off, welcome to the forums.

Secondly,
Tools: your going to be disappointed
Idea: There is a ton of fluff content in this book that may or may not inspire you.
Sendaz
QUOTE (GodForsaken @ Sep 21 2015, 06:23 AM) *
My first post on the forums! smile.gif
Well met, the soy scotch is behind the counter so pull up a chair and sit a spell.

QUOTE
I think that there should be a place for a GM interpretation. So if a rule is "missing" or is a bit vague, it might seem unprofessional, but I see it as an opportunity for me as a GM to add my input to the game world. I take a source books like Data Trails as more of suggestions and ideas to how I, as a GM, can expand the universe I am running my game in. I might not like all of it, and some of these rules won't be in my version of Shadowrun.

If you feel comfortable adapting or filling in for missing rules, then it can be a great creative process.
Many new GMs are not so confident so having a baseline to fall back on does help until they gain that feel for it.

QUOTE
I do hope that it will provide me with more tools and ideas, because the Matrix is one of the coolest aspects of Shadowun IMO.
It is certainly full of tantalizing ideas, though you may be spending some time hashing out house rules to fit your campaign, but you have already expressed an interest in doing this so it may be a good fit.

So have fun and don't be afraid to bounce ideas and see what sticks, it's always fun to see other parties concepts and creations.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (nylanfs @ Jun 19 2015, 12:01 PM) *


OK, color me impressed. That is pretty damn awesome right there.
nylanfs
It could also be built with a rasberry-pi and a touch screen.
DeathStrobe
I've given it enough time.

I hate Data Trails. I think it's the straight up worst SR5 core supplement book. Its short on content in general, the smallest supplement making it feel not worth the money, and on top of that it's also the lightest on crunch of a new system that REALLY needs it. The fluff doesn't follow the crunch. There are no cost for things like host, wireless negating paint, and other NPCs bag of tricks. Which would be helpful as a general guideline on determining "power level" of Matrix countermeasures. The Matrix is already insanely abstract that it's hard for people to follow, and on top of that Foundations just make an already weird and abstract system even more weird and abstract making it even harder for people to follow. Though to be fair, I still think the concept of the Foundation is a really cool idea and am not entirely against their inclusion to the setting, I'm just disappointed that it doesn't help make the Matrix feel more real.

It sucks. I look at Chrome Flesh and I see all these new toys and new options. In fact, it's the way for every other supplement. I look at Data Trails and it doesn't feel like I need any of this stuff.

Dongles are a cool idea in that they can make a hacking commlink, but their costs make it feel prohibitive to use them. It's cheaper and easier to just buy a deck, which is the way it should be. But it makes dongles feels like a non-option.

Deck mods are cool, but being unrepairable if the deck is bricked makes them a nuyen sink.

Device modifications seem like a non-option as it makes the deck (or any device really) more vulnerable to bricking because it reduces Matrix condition monitor to work. So why take it if it just means my deck mod is going to have an easier time being bricked and becoming slag? So it makes it seem like a non-option again.

The only cool thing out of Data Trails is the AI rules. But AIs seem really limited, which isn't a huge surprise because they kind of sucked in SR4 too. But the AI rules are REALLY complex, on top of the fact Matrix rules already being really weird and complex. So it makes it hard to justify letting anyone play an AI, though I do really like that there are rules for them. So I'm not saying I don't want AI rules, I just want them to be easier to understand. I think making them Technomancers with no bodies would have been the easier solution rather then using complex emulation rules.

What I liked about SR5's Matrix is that it made the Matrix rules more consistent with the rest of the game. Attribute + Skill [Limit Set by Gear] Its perfect and easy to understand because it follows the same convention everyone else needs to follow. But then if you really start looking at it, why are there 6 skills for hacking? And why are they not evenly distributed amongst Matrix Actions? Software seems like a total dump skill, until you notice that you need it for disarming Data Bombs which do rating x d6 in damage, which means it will one shot people pretty much all the time without being disarmed. So now you need software for only 1 single action ever. DT does help offset this by adding Garbage In/Out to offer something else for Software. But what about Electronic Warfare? Seems like a rigger thing, but you need it to hide, which can't be done if your marked, so you'll probably never be able to hide once found anyway. And this can get into action economy with decking, as since almost everything is a complex action everything just takes forever to resolve. And there is just too much rolling. You need to roll to do everything in the Matrix. It just slows the game down.

I known there are some that were here on Dumpshock complaining about the Matrix being able to hack things too quickly, but if the choice is between hacking a smart gun and ejecting a clip vs pulling out a gun and start shooting. The hacking option should be viable as oppose to a death sentence. Data Trails doesn't help address that at all.

I hate Data Trails. I feel it doesn't address any of the problems with the Matrix. It doesn't add any fun options, or even any options that seem worth taking. It just feels bad. The Matrix needs more depth and to feel like a more important (and I'd argue more invasive) part of the setting.
binarywraith
To be fair, AI should never be player characters.

Having a character who is able to interact with the physical world while being effectively immune to it is bad game design.
KCKitsune
The thing I hate the most about SR5 is that the price of entry to be a decker is way, Way, WAY too damn high. I loved that about SR4. ANYBODY could be a hacker.

If you had enough Karma and you wanted a well rounded character (and if you limited the unlimited growth of Mages/Technomancers), then you could conceivably have a 'Run where EVERYBODY is involved in a Matrix run.

Heck, you don't even need that much Karma if you just want to get Cybercombat (getting from 0 to 3 only cost 14 karma, 16 if you want to specialize against Spiders or IC) so you can fight on the 'Trix. Hacking is the equivalent of (please for give the D&D reference) Picking Locks. Electronic Warfare can be run by an Agent.
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