Phys ads have a serious weakness that should be fixed.
There's only so good a phys ad B&E specialist can be, because there is no phys-ad power equivalent to retinal duplication, or finger print matching. Has anyone come up with a rule for this, or should I just shut my filthy little mouth?

Given how physads basically win the game everywhere else, I think I'm fine with this.

Besides, retinal duplication doesn't really work and finger print security can be bypassed in other (far more practical) ways.

Buy the cyber, geas the point. Or do a phys-mage and use the spells. Thats really about it. That or nano-tech.

IMO, phys-ads arent really at their prime in dealing with technology because it requires tools (namely cyber or spells) to overcome. Thier at their best in combat, at stealth, and at movement flexibility (namely, they can run jump climb swim better and in more areas than anyone else, sometimes being able to do things the opposition deemed 'impossible'). Theyre also great at being anti-magic combatants, ignoring spells and disrupting spirits, only they cant provide spell defense.

Im sure people will suggest making powers to fill the void etc etc but in my view thats just something they cant do without bending a little to something non-power based.

I guess if you want to be uber sneaky, you must go path of the mage. Physical Mask beats both measures.

There are decent palm print bypassing tools that are non cyber and non magical. You could also simply get micro-vision and learn some B/R electronics for bypassing those pesky maglocks altogether.

I forgot about the microvision bonuses. thanks.
But, in many secure places, to get in the door you must pass a mag-lock (card swipe, key punch, print or retinal print) which is right in front of the glassed in (on your side of the door) security station. Can't really be breaking open the box right in front of them.

That's where a maintenance uniform and a good etiquette skill comes in handy

Well to be fair, I work in a jail... we have over a thousand employees and after a month you recognize everyone anyway. Social skills are gonna be a must even if you do have a valid ID. Control os very good at spotting new people, even with the right prox badges. And yes, FYI my building does use maglocks run through a central system.

Believe me, I understand that some folks do eventually learn the face of the people.
But take Joe Average, chances are he's lucky to recognize his boss out of uniform. He wouldn't know John the Maintenance guy from some other shmoe with similair build and hair color, unless he drank of a regular basis with him.
That's the point of Acting and Etiquette, to look like you belong and don't need to be bothered.

another aspect I have learned from my job (Programmer supporting police, fire, ems, jail) is acting as a contracter there to do something, I almost never get hassled, they assume once you are past the initial entrance, that you are supposed to be there.

SR application, legwork could reveal the correct sub who fixes the maglocks, while breaking in, calim to be from that company doing an "upgrade" if you act professionally, and quickly, like you know what you are doing, than they will likely not hassle you. at least not as much. It also depends on how alert the gaurd is, i.e. are they expecting intrusion?

won't work for every situation...

-Mike R.

IIRC, these things are only available on cyber-eyes right? So why not just go the low-tech approach, 'Cyber-eye on a Stick'™! Take a normal eye, modify it a bit, add a battery and just carry it around in your pocket.

Also makes an interesting conversation piece to boot.

Yes, but you would need photographic memory and a really close look at a person's eyes to mimic them.

[edit] to clarify, anything is available subject to GM approval, and that is the basis of my 'yes'

By no stretch of the imagination is retinal duplication a 'sense'

If you want to make a new power, then cool, but Improved Sense isn't the place for it.

Dupe a retinal image? Really expensive contact lenses. If you want to be icky, buy an organic eye, have it altered and hook it up to a portable tank.

Dupe a fingerprint? Biotech to manufacture synth-skin with the target print on it and graft it to the subject's own digit. Or alter the subject's fingerprint with Biotech for a night -- it won't last, but it'll get the job done.

-Siege

I like the cybereye on a stick idea, but the scanners are probably designed to read from a few feet away so people don't get their filthy human oils on its sleek, polished perfection...ahem. What this means is that the camera is always on, looking for a face. When it sees something like a face, it uses known reference points to find an eye and zoom in for a retinal scan. If it doesn't see anything resembling a face, it probably has no reference point for locating the eye and won't even try to read your eye-on-a-stick.

As for print scans, I prefer the custom made leather gloves.

Hasaku, while that's possible in 60 years, right now, all of the iris/retinal scanners I've seen require the eye to be placed directly in front of them (6-8 inches) and scan just the eye. They don't look for a face or anything of the sort. Of course, that's now, this is then.

Unless you're going to run into retinal scanners 24/7 (highly unlikely), nanite Retinal Tailors are all you need. Finger scanners can be defeated with Fingerprint Mapper nanites just as easily. An adept should be able to develop powers that duplicate these (I'd peg tham at 0.25/level each), but you'd need something to scan the prints in with in order for the power to manipulate your prints. A ritual sample would work nicely, I'd imagine. How about something like this:

Retinal Tailoring and Fingerprint Mapping
Cost: 0.25 points per level

If the adept has obtained a ritual sample of a subject, he need only meditate for one hour and then make a Magic ( Test with target modifiers pulled from the following table. If successful, the adept manages to duplicate the target's retinal pattern (if using Retinal Tailoring) or fingerprints (if using Fingerprint Mapping) at a rating equal to the level of the power. The adept can then make an Opposed Test pitting the level of this power against an appropriate scanner in order to fool it. Once created, the altered prints last only as long as the adept keeps the power activated. The moment it's deactivated, his normal prints return and he has to repeat the procedure in order to activate it again. Only one set of prints can be duplicated at any given time.

Living Target in Presence: -2
Dead Target in Presence: -0
Eye or Finger/Hand from Living Target: -1
Eye or Finger/Hand from Dead Target: +1
Other Ritual Sample of a Living Target: +2
Other Ritual Sample of a Dead Target: +4
Adept knows the Sympathic Magic metamagic technique: -2
Adept is using Astral Perception: -1
Background Count: +count

Feel free to change those modifiers. I pretty much pulled 'em out of my ass.

Adepts should get a power that mimics retinal duplication about the same time Cyberware comes out that let's the Sammie have Traceless Walk.

Magic and Cyber overlap in some areas but aren't meant to be identical, there's some things only magic can do and some things it can't do at all.

I completely agree, but I don't think this is necessarily one of them. Radios, cellphones, skillwires, cybernetic limbs, easy attribute and armor boosts, cybernetic weaponry, vehicle control rigs, and etc. are all well within the strengths of cyberware. Something as simple (not to mention a waste of resources for most characters) like retinal duplication is neither going to be missed or game-breaking.

I mean even using the power above (3 Power Points total for both at only a Rating of 6 which is the highest he can get it without initiating) is going to put it on a 50-50 shot against Rating 6 scanners, assuming the adept even manages to get the power to work after acquiring a ritual sample of the person he needs to replicate (which is an adventure in itself).

My problem lies in the inherent specialization of physical mimicry which currently leaps outside the current (arbitrary) boundaries of the adept.

Using the "magical turned inward" argument could justify a hell of a lot -- from shapeshifters to voice duplication and so on.

Which, don't get me wrong, has a perfectly reasonable application but it exists outside the realm of canon.

And to be fair, considering how limited adepts are in their spellpoints, I have a hard time seeing one dump points into so specific a power when the retinal security/print scanners are encountered so infrequently.

-Siege

That's the point. It's a worthless power for anyone except for a specialist who's going to encounter these things on a regular basis, and those that do will be a bit uncomfortable dishing out half their Power Points for the priviledge of only a 50% chance of success against a moderate- to low-rated scanner (Rating 6). Any facility worth protecting is going to have higher rated scanners.

Which is why I don't get the objection.

Powers like Improved Physical Attribute already allow adepts to directly modify their physical forms. Powers like Improved Sense and Enhanced Perception vastly improve your sensory organs. Powers like Killing Hands can be reflected as growing (and retracting) animalistic claws or any other way you want to describe them.

There's plenty of powers that exist in canon that allow an adept to modify their bodies.

Within tightly controlled elements -- but you'll note that adepts still can't improve Charisma, alter pheremones, voices and so on that would be perfectly in line with the idea of magic warping a physical appearance to alter social interactions.

Which is why I describe the current limitations as fairly arbitrary.

And I've never believed that Improved Senses as a power actually alters the adept's body per se -- if you rip out an adept's eyes with low-light and thermo, I don't think the eyes will be any different than eyes similar to other members of his gender/species.

It may be a limitation of my GM(s), but Killing Hands has always been described as blows dealing Physical damage but not requiring special effects such as energy fields or claws.

-Siege

Exactly. If they were claws, the power would be no more effective against spirits than spurs or hand razors.

Oy.

Anyway, an adept is free to describe any of their powers however they want as long as it fits within the constraints of the power. That's part of the fun of playing an adept. Distance Strike can be a huge fireball that shoots forth from the adept's mouth, an invisible force of kinetic energy, or the adept's arms growing to ridiculous levels before retracting. Killing Hands can be a pair of vicious claws, an aura of cackling energy around his fists, hands that turn into wicked blades, or just an innate ability to land vicious blows. An eagle physical shaman might go with a pair of claws and duplicate an eagle's eyes when using Enhanced Perception or Improved Sense: Optical Magnification, for instance.

And of course none of their powers are permanent; if they were, you wouldn't be able to turn them on and off on a whim. Enhanced Perception and Improved Sense only works for as long as the adept wishes them to. As soon as they deactivate the power, any modifications revert to their natural, non-magical state. The same happens when you knock out a magician sustaining Shapechange on themselves. Poof! The magic ends and they revert to their normal forms.

Not surprisingly, the same would be true about a power of this nature.

I doubt that kind of carte blanche description is actually mentioned in the rules. I think some limits are desirable.

Me, I'd have a problem giving someone extendo-arms or bladed hands. If they had that power they could do other things with them, and I don't like saying "yeah, you have extending Dhalsim limbs, but you can only use them for attacks". When another player wants him to grab the jailers keys from across the room or something, the "no" will feel arbitrary.

I'm not knocking your game creativity -- but Zaz hit the nail on the head, at least regarding my one of my primary concerns.

That being said, the proposed power is not balance-altering nor supreme munchkin bait -- it just happens to bug me personally.

Since I don't dictate the flavor of your games, run with it.

-Siege