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BGMFH
I keep seeing all these threads about how strong your munch-fu is.

So I ask you, can your munch-fu handle restrictions?

I shall return tomorrow and post several munchkins, designed solely from the rules in SR3.

Defeat me if you can.
FlakJacket
Uh, wouldn't it of just made more sense to skip your post then if you're not actually doing anything until tomorrow? question.gif
BGMFH
I want people to start preparing, most of them haven't read SR3 in ages.
nyahnyah.gif~
RedmondLarry
Hmmm. Since munchkins are players, not characters, I'm hard pressed to find the rules for creating munchkins in SR3.

But, OK, I'll post a munchkin. He's a white male, 14 years old (birthday next week), with red hair. He's thin because his height jumped several inches last year. He uses blue dice, and the color pages in his SR3 book have fallen out. As far as restrictions go, he's grounded for two weeks. No TV, no recreational computer use, and his phone use is limited to 5 minutes a day during this period. wink.gif
RedmondLarry
QUOTE (BGMFH)
I want people to start preparing, most of them haven't read SR3 in ages.
OK, I'll read SR3 again tonight to get ready. I'm looking forward to this.
The White Dwarf
Dont expect to be surprised, the whole idea youre trying to address is looking for the best in a given set of circumstances. Changing the circumstances doesnt alter the goal...
Arethusa
But it does test the adaptability of those who look for the numerical best. After all, most people munching are used to free reign across all canon material, or such is my understanding of the, ahm, art.
kevyn668
QUOTE (Arethusa)
But it does test the adaptability of those who look for the numerical best. After all, most people munching are used to free reign across all canon material, or such is my understanding of the, ahm, art.

I didn't know you could put a disclaimer in your sig. Or use it as a "zing."

Hmmmm....
Eyeless Blond
Heh, I consider it a badge of pride. smile.gif

I await your munchkins, sir. biggrin.gif
Zazen
QUOTE (Arethusa)
But it does test the adaptability of those who look for the numerical best. After all, most people munching are used to free reign across all canon material, or such is my understanding of the, ahm, art.

I think this restriction just makes it easier. There are far fewer options to consider.

Plus there's the old face-who-takes-all-of-the-ultra-munched-characters-as-level-3-contacts. He's always been the most powerful, and limiting things to SR3 doesn't force any fundamental changes from him smile.gif
A Clockwork Lime
Weren't you one of the people bitching when I created him? smile.gif
Zazen
I don't remember anyone creating him, I thought it was just one of those things people say on create-a-munchkin threads. "Oh yeah? I take that guy as my level 3 contact!" It's kind of a cop-out, so I'm not surprised if I bitched about you actually building one even if I don't remember. nyahnyah.gif

It is the most powerful character though, to be sure smile.gif
Glyph
And don't forget the old "I take the million, buy a permanent High Lifestyle, and retire. Ha!" Boring. I can buy a permanent squatter lifestyle for only 10,000 nuyen.gif , then buy a lot of cyberware and stuff. What's cooler, some boring Joe Average living a permanent High Lifestyle, or some twitchy, hyper, paranoid, wretched ex-sammie living in a cardboard box, eating out of a dumpster, and shooting devil rats with his Ares Alpha? cyber.gif
Zazen
You've got to admit that the improvement to that one is clever, though. Digestive expansion, a permanent high lifestyle, and a nuyen.gif 120,000 porche wink.gif
Eyeless Blond
rotfl.gif
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Zazen)
You've got to admit that the improvement to that one is clever, though. Digestive expansion, a permanent high lifestyle, and a nuyen.gif 120,000 porche

119,500 Porsche and some clothes.

~J
Eyeless Blond
Bah, when you have a High lifestyle you don't *need* clothes. biggrin.gif
RedmondLarry
I bought three permanent street lifestyles from the vendor at the local soycaf outlet. At least, that's what he said they were. wink.gif
Centurion
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ May 18 2004, 12:44 AM)
Bah, when you have a High lifestyle you don't *need* clothes. biggrin.gif

I can only imagine a troll's cost of constantly having to shell out for other people's replacement eyes after constant accidents involving eye level and excitement.

...say, there isn't a story behind your screenname, is there?
toturi
I'm always prepared for Canon. Can you Canon munch better than me?
Glyph
The trouble with this thread is, "munch a character" can mean different things. I tend to min-max, meaning I make a character who is great at his specialty, but don't sacrifice a character's other abilities to get one piddly extra die for it. A true munchkin, though, will do things like spend his 5 last skill points on one more weapon skill, when Etiquette: 2 and Stealth: 3 would be far more useful to the character, or take so much Body-boosting 'ware for his tank that he can't afford any reflex-enhancing 'ware, or give that troll adept with improved polearms: 6 no ranged attacks whatsoever.

So "munch" can mean either a tough, useful character, or a cheesy one-trick pony who is unlikely to be approved by the GM, or to make it past one gaming session alive if he is.
Smiley
My character didn't have any ranged attacks at character creation. Unarmed at 6 and edged weapons at 6. Both improved with adept powers. That doesn't automotically make him a munchkin because it fits with his personality and the kind of character i wanted him to be.
Glyph
I didn't mean to overgeneralize. Not every character who has a glaring weakness is a munchkin. The difference is, you made a character that you knew had a limitation, motivated by your character's history/personality. A munchkin creates a limited character out of short-sighted number-crunching.
booklord
A troll street samurai with....

Obvious cyberskull
The best reaction enhancement cyberware he can get his hands on
Adrenaline Pump
Hyper-thyroid Gland
Vindictive Flaw
Aptitude Edge ( Heavy weapons )
charisma of 1
Not a single social skill at all

who insists on....

Taking his heavy weapons everywhere he goes
Wearing Heavy armor on all occassions
Always bringing with him his dikoted polearm

who wonders....

why the group won't take him to any johnson meets?
why he can't go in any public area outside of the barrens without Lone Star calling up a tactical strike team with magic support?
why do people always run screaming from him?

Whose life quest is....

To find a corporate sponsor to make him into a cyber-zombie
paul_HArkonen
the scary thing is i know someone who plays a character like that, minus the skull, but yeah, he wanders around going i like guns, it scares me greatly, oh yeah, did i metion that he has shot the pupet that our mage was using (control actions).
Joker9125
Ill see what i can munch up
A Rodent of Unusual Size
Here's a really quick one done on the spur of the moment, totally from memory, and not really munched out beyond his primary focus (to snag the other munchkins as his loyal minions). Added solely for completeness.

Dwarven Face & Raven Shamanist
Priorities: Resources A, Magic B, Attributes C, Race D, Skills E

Attributes: Body 3, Quickness 4, Strength 3, Charisma 6, Intelligence 6, Willpower 6. Magic 6, Reaction 5, Initiative 1D6(4D6), Combat Pool 8, Spell Pool 6.

Active Skills: Conjuring 4 (Summoning 6), Etiquette 6, Negotiations 6, Pistols 1 (Ares Viper Slivergun 3), Sorcery 4 (Spellcasting 6), Stealth 3.

Knowledge Skills: Acting 5 (Improvisation 7), Psychology 5 (Social Engineering 7). 18 more points to taste.

Spells: Armor 6 (Fetish for Drain), Control Thoughts 6 (Fetish for Drain), Heal 6 (Fetish for Drain), Improved Invisibility 6 (Fetish for Drain), Improved Reflexes 3D6 1 (Fetish for Cost), Influence 6 (Fetish for Drain), Mind Probe 6 (Exclusive for Cost and Fetish for Drain). All other spells at Force 2 (Exclusive for cost).

Contacts: Level 3 x4 (the four best munchkins presented here as bodyguards; one cyber, one adept, two magicians), Level 2 x10 (assorted), Level 1 x2.

Resources: High Lifestyle (1 month prepaid), Low Lifestyle Safehouses (1 month prepaid, x5), Tres Chic Clothing, Secure Long Coat, Pocket Secretary, Basic DocWagon Contract (1 year prepaid), Fake ID (Rating 6), Ares Viper Slivergun in Concealed Holster, Force 1 Sustaining Focus (bound), Fetishes. Miscellaneous items to taste.
Glyph
Yep, right on schedule - Zazen called it. At least you actually gave stats and gear for your Face, and put a bit of effort into it.

But still... the "four best munchkins presented here" would be a bad choice for bodyguards. I would want a nice, stable, professional working for me as a bodyguard. Trying to get four munchkins to do anything would be like herding cats. Not to mention all of the trouble you would get into when they started back-talking to the Yakuza boss, shooting up the Dunkin' Donuts because they were out of the blueberry frosted ones, etc. They wouldn't even be that loyal, level 3 contacts or not, since munchkins tend to shoot their "best buddies" for things like being too slow to pass the salt, or being unwise enough to mention that they have a high-powered spell focus (ka-ching!).
Joker9125
Ok here is my munchy mage

If we are going solely by the SR3 rulebook then focus addiction dosent apply

Using the priority system

Resources A (1,000,000 nuyen.gif )
Magic B (aspected magician)
Attributes C (24)
Race D (Dwarf)
Skills E (27)

Body 4 (10 with sustained spell)
Quickness 4 (10 with sustained spell)
Stregnth 3
Charisma 4
Intilligence 6
Willpower 7
Reaction 5 (8 with sustained spell)
INI Dice 1(4 with sustained spell)

Secure Clothing Ball. - 3 Imp. - 0
Secure Jacket Ball. - 5 Imp - 3
Total Armor Ball. - 6(12 with sustained spell) Imp. - 3(9 with sustained spell)

Stunball [06] (If everyones knocked out killing them wolnt be a problem)
Increased Attribute (B) [06]
Increased Attribute (Q) [06]
Armor [06]
Incr. Reflexes +3INI DIE [01]
Increased Reaction [03]

Sustaining Focus 6->Increase Body
Sustaining Focus 6->Increase Quickness
Sustaining Focus 6->Armor
Sustaining Focus 1->+3 INI
Sustaining Focus 3->Increase reaction

And that still leaves you with 296,000 nuyen.gif to blow on whatever you want

EDIT: Math might be a little off. Yea i bought spell points
Glyph
Okay, here's one from me. He's "balanced" - he can roll a 20-dice melee attack, or a 20-dice manabolt. biggrin.gif

Here is the breakdown:
A: Resources
B: Magic (Sorcerer)
C: Attributes
D: Race (Ork)
E: Skills

Glaive (Tom Byron), Ork Sorcerer (Shamanic/Gator Totem)
Attributes -
Body: 4
Quickness: 5
Strength: 8
Charisma: 1
Intelligence: 3
Willpower: 6
Essence: 6
Magic: 6
Reaction: 4

Initiative: 4 + 1d6 (4d6)
Combat Pool: 7
Spell Pool: 5
Karma Pool: 1

Active Skills -
Etiquette: 2
Intimidation: 1
Sorcery/Spellcasting: 5/7
Staff-Polearm/Polearm: 5/7
Stealth: 5
Unarmed Combat: 6

Knowledge Skills -
(Languages)
English/Cityspeak: 3/5 Read/Write: 1/-
(Other Skills)
Corporate Politics: 1
Low-class Dives: 3
Magical Background: 4
Paranormal Critters/Urban: 1/3
Thrash Bands: 1
Underworld Politics: 2

Spells -
Manabolt: 6
Heal (E): 4(6)
Increase Reflexes +3: 1

Bonded Magical Foci -
Weapon Focus (Polearm): 6
Sustaining Focus: 1 (Increase Reflexes +3)

Contacts -
Fixer (Level 1)
Talismonger (Level 1)

Lifestyles: 1 Low (1 Month) and 1 Squatter (Bolthole/1 Month).
Credstick Balance: 3d6 x 100 Nuyen.

Gear -
Magic: Shamanic Lodge (Rating: 6), 4 Force: 6 Expendable Combat Foci.
Weapons: Shock Glove.
Armor/Clothing: Secure Jacket, Ordinary Clothing (x 5), Real Leather Clothing (x 2).
Other Gear: 2 Large Duffel Bags (of 100 Nuyen cost each), Medkit with 2 Refills, Earplug Phone, Pager, 1 Antidote: 6 Slap Patch, Survival Kit, Ration Bars (10 Days), Pocket Flashlight, Telecom (10 Mp) with Disposable Printer.




So, what would I consider the min-maxed, non-munchkin version? I would lower Strength to 6 and raise Charisma to 3, raising Etiquette to 3 for the same skill point cost, and take Negotiation: 1 instead of Intimidation: 1. I would also take a sword instead of a polearm - something that can be hidden under a long coat in an emergency, rather than a cumbersome weapon that will present a lot of problems whenever he tries to take it certain places. This would also lower the cost in both Nuyen and spell points, letting me get a slightly less bare-bones spell allocation, and maybe still have enough money left for things like a basic DocWagon Contract, a Rating: 3 Fake ID, or an extra Contact or two.

Of course, it depends on the campaign. If the GM ran a campaign where the PCs toted around heavy weapons without raising any eyebrows and the opposition was ultra-tough, I would probably want to play the "munchkin" version, just to survive. On the other hand, if the GM was trying to do a campaign of street-level runners just starting out, even the min-maxed version would be too much.

**Edited to change skills - had Intimidation/Physical: 1/3, forgetting that it would be 3 points for him, not 2. So I gave it to him at 1 and raised Stealth by 1, instead.**
BGMFH
Sorry. I work for a private security firm and have been slightly too busy to finish number crunching the Rigger Munch.

Basically though, Resource A VCR standard, datajack, and lots of drones with shotguns or LMGs, and a 5/7 remote skill for the paired drone... a high reaction, 4 init dice, and all drones fire on the same phase.
Moonstone Spider
Bah, you people are completely missing the point of munching your characters. You have to squeeeeeeze the rules into submission. Let's see somebody tweaking the weapons and vehicle creation rules here to create Godlike War Machines, and where's our magician with Create Orichalcum?

A Rodent of Unusual Size
Talk about missing the point. smile.gif The point of the thread is to use only the core rulebook, not any of the optional supplements.
Glyph
Here's another sad creation from me, once again illustrating the munchkin tendency to take things a bit too far. See, you can actually make a decent speed sammie with the basic book (nowhere near the boosted: 3/reaction enhancer: 6/synaptic accelerator: 2/muscle toner: 4/enhanced articulation monster you can make with Man & Machine, but still nice). Take Wired Reflexes: 2 with a reflex trigger, alphaware, and add Reaction Enhancer: 6. You have (assuming 6 Quickness and Intelligence) 16 + 3d6 inititative.

This lets you go before anyone but the most freakishly enhanced or end-of-level-boss-type NPCs, and you will do awesomely on surprise tests. You will do very well in your role of getting the drop on the opposition. And the best part of that cyber setup is that, even after adding alphaware cybereyes, smartlink, and datajack, you still have nearly a point of Essense left to customize the character with. Do you want a cybercam? Low-end skillwires? You have all kinds of options.

But that's not enough for a munchkin. So how fast can we really go? Take Wired Reflexes: 3, then add Reaction Enhancer: 4, alphaware. This brings your Essense down to 0.04, and costs 980,000. You have no cybereyes, and not even a smartlink. Heaven help anyone who taps you on the shoulder when you aren't expecting it. However, your Initiative is now 16 + 4d6. Here he is, in all of his broken glory. The name Twitch has already been used in the book, so we'll call him... Glitch.


Breakdown
A: Resources
B: Attributes
C: Race (Elf)
D: Skills
E: Magic

Glitch, Male Elven Speed Sammie
Attributes -
Body: 6
Quickness: 7
Strength: 3
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 5
Willpower: 6
Essence: 0.04
Magic: 0
Reaction: 6(16)

Initiative: 16 + 4d6
Combat Pool: 9

Total Karma: 0
Good Karma: 0
Karma Pool: 1

Active Skills -
Assault Rifles/AK-97: 5/7
Bike: 3
Etiquette: 2
Pistols/Remington Roomsweeper: 5/7
Stealth: 4
Throwing Weapons: 6

Knowledge Skills -
(Languages)
English/Cityspeak: 5/7 R/W: 2/-
(Other Skills)
Corporate Politics: 2
Corporate Security: 5
Elven Thrash Bands: 2
Gang Identification/Go-Gangs: 3/5
Seattle Black Market: 4
Seattle Night Life: 4
Underworld Politics: 4

Cyberware -
Reaction Enhancer: 4 (Alphaware)
Wired Reflexes: 3

Contacts -
Fixer (Level 1)
Street Doc (Level 1)

Lifestyle: 1 Low (1 Month prepaid).
Credstick Balance: 3d6 x 100 Nuyen.

Gear -
DocWagon Contract: Basic (1 Year).
Weapons:
>> AK97 with Laser Sight, Gas-Vent III, Shock Pad, 260 EX Explosive and 120 Tracer Rounds of Ammo, and 4 spare Clips.
>> Remington Roomsweeper with 80 Shot and 80 Gel Rounds, Concealable Holster.
>> 20 HE Offensive and 10 Gas (Neurostun VII) Grenades.
Armor/Clothing: Secure Jacket, Secure Vest, Real Leathers (x 2), Small Riot Shield, Ordinary Clothing (x 10), Fine Clothing (x 1).
Other Gear: Duffel Bag (of 100 Nuyen cost each), Wrist Phone with Flip-up Screen, Pager, Medkit with 1 Refill, Survival Kit, Ration Bars (10 Days), Wire Clippers, Metal Restraints (x 2), Pocket Flashlight, Musical Playback Unit with Quad Speakers and 12 Disks, Telecom (5 Mp).
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