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hermit
QUOTE
But that does not mean an effort originating in another country has no barriers to assisting in such a collaboration.
But barriers have significantly been reduced over the years, and there has been more and more individual interest.

I know for a fact that the German publisher would be open to such a cooperation, but they say CGL seems not interested.
Nstol_wisper
And then take into consideration that the game Shadowrun is actually owned by Topps Inc. which complicates the environment for foreign contributers.
Many nations do not have a legal environment to handle such a situation and require special agreements. Many governments outside the US assume that developer and owner are on first observation the same entity, to give an exampe.
hermit
QUOTE
And then take into consideration that the game Shadowrun is actually owned by Topps Inc. which complicates the environment for foreign contributers.
Many nations do not have a legal environment to handle such a situation and require special agreements. Many governments outside the US assume that developer and owner are on first observation the same entity, to give an exampe.

Can't speak for Japan, but since every other non-US publisher is an EU country (where EU IP rights guidelines apply), there are extensive provisions for all cases that concern sublicenses and IP licensing in general, usually clarified in one direction or another by local governments and/or courts (for instance, the German Federal Economic Court recently ruled that sub-licenses don't automatically invalidate if the main license holder enters bankrupcy, and are not necessarily up for renegotiation by the liquidator in charge of the mine license holder).
lokii
There is now also a Brazilian Shadowrun publisher: Editora New Order.
Nstol_wisper
QUOTE (lokii @ Jun 30 2019, 01:59 PM) *
There is now also a Brazilian Shadowrun publisher: Editora New Order.


I can believe it.
What brought me to Shadowrun to actually try it out was happening across a lot of Internet discussions about the new Catalyst agreement and the potential for "Sub-Publishers" to get involved.
It was my interest in how much attention that situation got that made me give in and check out the rules.
That was during the 4e and talk of 5e comming out soon time.
It actually ended up being about 2 years before 5e was released.
hermit
QUOTE
There is now also a Brazilian Shadowrun publisher: Editora New Order.

Will they publish their own stuff too? Is there anything known about that?
Nstol_wisper
Likely they are an element in the translation process, which in turn allows them to comment on content all potential source material.
Quite a few sourcebooks were released with focus on many regions yet had a simular look and feel. I think they were handled well and
it also makes me think there are several companies outside the US in the work process.
I expect more of the same.
lokii
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 30 2019, 09:59 PM) *
Will they publish their own stuff too? Is there anything known about that?

Not to my knowledge. But maybe you can find something out from their website. As a starting point the Shadowrun product catalog is here: https://newordereditora.com.br/categoria-pr.../shadowrun-rpg/
Nstol_wisper
Any independent sourcebook will have to be fan fiction. Very hard to get work like that out under the distribution cycle of the approved material.
I'm thinking the German only books were possible as the company also reprints older edition books and has some rights to the resources.
Were there any sourcebooks that were released for Germany alone in 5e?
lokii
I think you have the wrong impression. Here is a list: https://shadowhelix.de/Meta:%C3%9Cbersicht_...genproduktionen There were already roughly a dozen publications for 4th Edition and more than double that for 5th. And it's possible that Pegasus never obtained the license for the material from before they took over from Fanpro, because they never republished books from earlier editions in digital form.
Nstol_wisper
QUOTE (lokii @ Jul 1 2019, 01:07 PM) *
I think you have the wrong impression. Here is a list: https://shadowhelix.de/Meta:%C3%9Cbersicht_...genproduktionen There were already roughly a dozen publications for 4th Edition and more than double that for 5th. And it's possible that Pegasus never obtained the license for the material from before they took over from Fanpro, because they never republished books from earlier editions in digital form.


They do nice work too! wavey.gif

I remember discussions about Pegasus around the same time Catalyst was taking up Shadowrun.
They were acquiring some rights to the Trademark as well, someting which I found curious. I never thought a seperate language development cycle was the goal or would be doable. question.gif
Does anyone know of any other companies outside the US doing the same?
hermit
QUOTE
Does anyone know of any other companies outside the US doing the same?

Black Book Editions, the French publisher, just kickstartered (and published) a new France booklet, whose content actually made its way into the France paragraph in the Encyclopedia.

Most non-English publishers coordinate what they write with the American side so everything stays smooth (enough). Has been done that way since the early days of German publishing (the original Germany Sourcebook is the only book the American side ever actually translated). There have been other native-language publications, notably a Hungary sourcebook (in Hungarian), the first France book, and a Japan book (in Japanese), complete with introductionary Manga (a fanslation of which can be read here).

Sub-license contracts usually detail where such coordination is required; the German publisher, Pegasus Games, for instance, has the right to publish and coordinate about all entire German-speaking countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland).
Nstol_wisper
Just glancing at the German Sourcebook formats......
I have to say I love the Datapuls News narration. I don't speak German but again it's about format on first glance.
hermit
They're pretty awesome. Basically they're what the Cities in Shadow PDF series always wanted to be.

German SR has a monthly freebie - currently it's Schattenload, which has locations, gear or game aid, but as long as the timeline was running more or less coherently, it was Novapuls, a newssheet with in-game news items, as well as a job offer sidebar and occasional special features (like Christmas Specials). The News is shaped like these, just somewhat smaller, more narrowly focused on the Datapuls' topic, and with less images (Andreas AAS Schroth does most of the Novapuls art and is the driving force behind the whole thing).
binarywraith
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jun 23 2019, 11:28 AM) *
well, they have an errata team already, so it sounds like at least they're trying to look like they're trying to improve.

...

that said, i have my doubts about the errata team getting anything in before the first printing. and there isn't really a huge difference between not having an errata team and not using an errata team.


The errata team, last I checked, is literally one or two freelancers working unpaid and a few fans from the official forums, and the only place any of their work seems to have been used is Missions.
binarywraith
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 3 2019, 12:32 AM) *
The errata team, last I checked, is literally one or two freelancers working unpaid and a few fans from the official forums, and the only place any of their work seems to have been used is Missions.



QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 26 2019, 04:44 AM) *
Three Nazis walk into a BAR. They don't get up. wink.gif

Seriously though, CGL is showing a frustrating lenience towards Nazis on its staff, and has throughout Hardy's rein, starting with WAR. Following up on those big words in reality (by letting them go/blacklisting them), macho chest-drumming aside, would be a good start. That enough clarification for you?


Isn't the 'Arebeit Macht Frei' sidebar still in the most recent prints (and PDFs) of War!? I'll quote it again here, because fuck CGL for ever having published it.

QUOTE
WORK BRINGS FREEDOM

Oswiecim was under a spiritual barrier for a number of years. Oswiecim was home to Auschwitz-Birkenau, the most well known of the Nazi party’s concentration camps. During the Holocaust, 1.1 million people died within its walls. This led it to become one of the most haunted places on the planet. Ghosts of all shapes and sizes dwelled within, frightening out or murdering all residents of Oswiecim. Because of the sheer magnitude of the haunting, a great number of other things found home there.

For the inclined occult investigator, Auschwitz-Birkenau is a treasure trove. It’s also a remarkably dangerous trap. Earlier this year, an entrepreneur named Tetsuo Shuumatsu hired a cabal of sorcerers, charging them with the removal of the barrier. He’s an arms dealer, one who specializes in the weapons necessary to take down ghosts. With such an infestation of ghosts, only a silly buyer would hesitate to pay top dollar for his wares. His greed opened this treasure trove to the public, allowing those without a sense of self-preservation to have a unique opportunity to drudge for necromantic artifacts.

The town proper is effectively still a town, albeit a town inhabited by the angry and hungry dead. They don’t take kindly to the living, but aren’t necessarily hostile unless provoked. Many are simply living out echoes of their past existences as harmless villagers. The real problem comes from the concentration camps proper. The three main campuses are surrounded by about fifty smaller camps. Each of the smaller camps is a hotbed of supernatural activity, but nothing compared to the magnitude of the central collective.

In particular, Auschwitz II is remarkable. It was the source of the vast majority of deaths—it’s what most people think of when referencing Auschwitz. It’s nightmare made flesh, almost a living organism unto itself. The halls audibly scream and cry, the ghosts beg for release so much that most people couldn’t even hear themselves speak. For your average runner, Auschwitz II is suicide. Only the most enterprising groups will survive the trip. But such a trip can result in great rewards (see The Fleshfinder, below).

THE FLESHFINDER

Deep within the bowels of Auschwitz II during WWII, Dr. Eduard Wirths conducted and supervised thousands of odd experiments on the human body. He tested mustard gas on innocents. He mutilated twins. He held people in tanks of ice water for hours or until dead. He exposed prisoners to malaria. He forced them to drink seawater. One particular implement from his experiments, a rusted old scalpel, was left in the labs. Over many years, it was energized by the various ghosts passing by it, feeding off their death energies. At this point, it’s taken on a life of its own.

The rusty old scalpel craves death. It only finds itself at home when flush with warm blood. Although this makes it a remarkably effective weapon, anyone holding it is subject to the sounds of its past victims. As a function of this, when the weapon is in hand, the character is considered distracted and suffers a –4 dice pool modifier to all Perception Tests. If she attempts to Observe in Detail as a Simple Action, she only suffers a –2 dice pool modifier.
Reach: 0, Damage: (Str/2+4)P, AP: –2, Availability: N/A (unique item), Market Value: 10,000¥


Edit: Of course it is, just checked the preview on DRTPG, and there it is in the contents.
Jaid
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 3 2019, 02:32 AM) *
The errata team, last I checked, is literally one or two freelancers working unpaid and a few fans from the official forums, and the only place any of their work seems to have been used is Missions.


oh, i wouldn't be at all surprised if that describes their current state of affairs too. i was just noting that they actually at least care enough to try and *look* like they're doing something, which is an improvement sadly enough.

truthfully, the biggest and most telling omission from the errata team would be someone that can actually push those corrections into the books. no editors. no managers. no actual full time employees of the company that actually work in the office. a handful of people is probably fine, *if* one of those people is actually making sure the work they do actually goes somewhere instead of just sitting in a file somewhere.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 3 2019, 02:21 AM) *
oh, i wouldn't be at all surprised if that describes their current state of affairs too. i was just noting that they actually at least care enough to try and *look* like they're doing something, which is an improvement sadly enough.

truthfully, the biggest and most telling omission from the errata team would be someone that can actually push those corrections into the books. no editors. no managers. no actual full time employees of the company that actually work in the office. a handful of people is probably fine, *if* one of those people is actually making sure the work they do actually goes somewhere instead of just sitting in a file somewhere.


The caring was definitely not at CGL's level. It was more a thing that happened to shut up the people who'd been telling them for five whole years that they had basic typos in the core book, and random responses in the several hundred page rules questions thread were not sufficient for official rulings. Also, that omission is exactly the state of it IIRC. Remember, freelancers. They don't have any control over what gets into books. That's Hardy's gig, and he manifestly ran out of fucks to give years ago.
hermit
QUOTE
Edit: Of course it is, just checked the preview on DRTPG, and there it is in the contents.

Of course it is. This is the American edition. Not to go off on a tangent here, but it was removed from the German edition for several reasons, some of them moral, some of them more legal in nature. However, even if this wasn't dangerously skirting hate speech laws, the publisher would have faced quite a backlash on this stuff from local fans (and the wider gaming community).
Jaid
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 4 2019, 03:57 PM) *
Of course it is. This is the American edition. Not to go off on a tangent here, but it was removed from the German edition for several reasons, some of them moral, some of them more legal in nature. However, even if this wasn't dangerously skirting hate speech laws, the publisher would have faced quite a backlash on this stuff from local fans (and the wider gaming community).

i recall getting into a discussion with someone from germany who was extremely upset that there was a vehicle named the blitzkrieg, something which was not directly part of the holocaust (yes, it's not exactly unrelated, but you can have blitzkrieg without rounding up all the people you don't like and murdering them, torturing them, enslaving them, and so forth, and you can have the holocaust without blitzkrieg).

i can't imagine an entire section about auschwitz would have gone over well at all.
Nstol_wisper
I myself use sensitive subject matter to bring the playing group closer together.
And in my opinion the RPG culture in General has at times been for some a chance to exclude as many as possible from the experience.

My opinion.
Sendaz
QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 4 2019, 08:45 PM) *
I myself use sensitive subject matter to bring the playing group closer together.
And in my opinion the RPG culture in General has at times been for some a chance to exclude as many as possible from the experience.

My opinion.

Alot depends on the nature of the sensitive subject matter and how it relates to the players.

Which is why a Session Zero is so important.


Jaid
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 5 2019, 03:02 AM) *
Alot depends on the nature of the sensitive subject matter and how it relates to the players.

Which is why a Session Zero is so important.


a lot also depends on the handling. "you can go into auschwitz and loot nazi-themed magical items that will fill your ears with the screams of suffering holocaust victims" is not what i would describe as the ideal way to handle that...
hermit
QUOTE
i can't imagine an entire section about auschwitz would have gone over well at all.

Depends a lot on how it's handled. Shadows of Europe's section was tolerable. WAR's was not. Probably a good idea not to let 4channers anywhere near such a subject, though.

QUOTE
I myself use sensitive subject matter to bring the playing group closer together.
And in my opinion the RPG culture in General has at times been for some a chance to exclude as many as possible from the experience.

My opinion.

Well, if you use dungeon runs to destroy "bitter" jew ghosts for the ultimate jew vulva mutilator +2 (I wish I was making this up) to tie your group closer together, that says a lot about your group, but probably isn't all that common (hopefully). Also, what is your opinion informed by? If you have nothing backing this up, it's not an opinion, it's at best bias.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 4 2019, 06:45 PM) *
I myself use sensitive subject matter to bring the playing group closer together.
And in my opinion the RPG culture in General has at times been for some a chance to exclude as many as possible from the experience.

My opinion.


Sensitive topics can be done well. Look to Charnel Houses of Europe: The Shoah for an example of how to do this one well.

A ghostbusting dungeon crawl is the opposite of doing this well.
Nstol_wisper
Which likely makes my point of, It's now the subject as much as how it is handled.
The RPG community needs a game like Shadowrun which gives people a chance to express their opinions on how to handle sensetive topics.
Particularly the last 100 to 200 years of human history.....
Jaid
QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 6 2019, 07:14 AM) *
Which likely makes my point of, It's now the subject as much as how it is handled.
The RPG community needs a game like Shadowrun which gives people a chance to express their opinions on how to handle sensetive topics.
Particularly the last 100 to 200 years of human history.....


it really doesn't, though. there are tons of RPGs out there. shadowrun doesn't need to bear the entire burden of social responsibility, and it CERTAINLY doesn't need to include any examples of spectacularly poor handling of sensitive subjects. again: handled well, this could be interesting. something like "the descendants of a jewish family have found out that their family records were never destroyed and are in a concentration camp" (not necessarily auschwitz) could potentially be handled well.

"an arms dealer specializing in anti-ghost equipment opened a path into auschwitz so you can kill the ghosts of holocaust victims and collect magical nazi torture implements as loot" has almost no way to be handled tastefully. it is not needed at all.
hermit
I don't think there's many bigger, longer-running systems that have not tried, to varying degrees of failure or relative success, to deal with these, from V:tM's atrocious Nazi fanwank to ... well, actually I can't really think of a positive example right now.

And I disagree. You don't need RPGs to pick apart well-known and well-understood historical atrocities any more than you need PBS: the game and a special DLC rape camp campaign. There's enough places and situations to discuss that, but an RPG supplement probably is not among them.
Jaid
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 6 2019, 05:10 PM) *
I don't think there's many bigger, longer-running systems that have not tried, to varying degrees of failure or relative success, to deal with these, from V:tM's atrocious Nazi fanwank to ... well, actually I can't really think of a positive example right now.

And I disagree. You don't need RPGs to pick apart well-known and well-understood historical atrocities any more than you need PBS: the game and a special DLC rape camp campaign. There's enough places and situations to discuss that, but an RPG supplement probably is not among them.


i wouldn't say it necessarily needs to be done, or that it needs to be an RPG, but putting people into situations where they are encouraged to put themselves into someone else's shoes and deal with difficult real life problems can be a good thing... if it's done well. helping people understand things, even things that are well-understood by some, is a good thing... and if this scenario was doing that, i'd be more in favour of it. after all, while i would say most of the western world are familiar with the fact that the nazis were trying to kill jews, i don't think it is nearly as well understood by many that homosexuals, the mentally ill, and gypsies were also targeted, or that it wasn't just a matter of attempting to kill the people but also to destroy the culture, their history, their language, everything about them.

i think there's plenty of room to do something good and worthwhile in an RPG regarding unpleasant subjects, although that is not a good example of how to do it. a game like "this war of mine", for example, puts people into a situation where they are confronted with at least some small measure of the realities of what war means for the regular people stuck in the middle. that doesn't necessarily NEED to be done, nor does it NEED to be done in game format, but there is something to be said about a medium that is interactive, where "we" have to make those tough decisions, where "we" have to second-guess ourselves, rather than watching someone else make those decisions from a position where we face none of the risk or uncertainty. no matter how "well understood" it might be intellectually, games that put you into a role have a lot more power to help you understood it *emotionally* as well.

it might not need to be done in a role-playing game. but it can be done far more powerfully in a role-playing game than in many other media. it just needs to be handled with a great deal of care and respect.

i can definitely agree that the section in war did not handle the subject well. but it *could* have handled the subject of the holocaust/concentration camps well, and done something valuable. it didn't. it wasn't even close. it is baffling how anyone could have looked at that and thought it was a good way to handle a very sensitive issue that requires a lot of respect for the seriousness of the matter. and the fact that someone *did* look at it and thought it was appropriate is EXACTLY why handling this sort of subject matter well can be a good thing, because no matter how well understood YOU think the subject is, we can plainly see that SOME people still need to improve their understanding of it.
hermit
Of course it is possible to implement problematic and/or unpleasant topics in RPGs. I do think video games that engage the player individually are better suited for that (like Frostpunk, like Papers, Please, for instance), but I agree, it can be done. However, due to the detachment from the player, the need to speak to different styles and groups and players, the barrier to design this to not fall into any of the numerous pitfalls for such a supplement (banalization, fetishization, glorification, abuse as an "edgy" subject for edgyness' sake, or blatant agreement with the subject in question). And the SR supplement in WAR fell into all of these.

In fact, as an add-on to an existing setting, it seems extremely hard to me to du such a problematic context justice.
Jaid
i certainly agree that that excerpt from war did an absolutely awful job of handling the subject.

i simply disagree that difficulty means it cannot or should not be done in general. (i would, however, be willing to agree that it cannot and should not be done by the current team in charge of shadowrun, however, based on the fact that they did it anyways and it was a spectacular failure)
Sendaz
But getting back to the Streetpedia itself, there are quite a few updates, which is handy as the new history is spread out over several books and it's often very small paragraphs touching on the subject in question.

Seems the CAS, acting under the guise of settling the pirates in the region's hash, have retaken South Florida and reunited the state.

We for one look forward to the Return of Florida Man on CAS-TV. wink.gif
Sengir
QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 6 2019, 01:14 PM) *
The RPG community needs a game like Shadowrun which gives people a chance to express their opinions on how to handle sensetive topics.

I'm not exactly sure why the RPG community would require a game for that discussion.

But even if we take that as a given, but anyway, the Arbeit macht frei chapter was not a discussion or an invitation into one. It was somebody seriously thinking that telling people to kill holocaust victims once over was a good idea.
Nstol_wisper
One thing I'd like to see if just for flavor, is more detailed plots inside the militaries of the UCAS and CAS.
Death From Above xx

That's a potential sourcebook like the streetpedia by itself.
hermit
There have been more than enough of those. Personally, I don't need another WAR, Free Marine Corps, or more CAS fanwank. I'd like more coverage of the CAS as such though, maybe even an update on the Miami setting (shadowboxer is the only viable source and it's both 20 years old and .... Shadowboxer) despite the remurification. Not that the writers of this or previous publishers ever actually did anything with it, of course.
binarywraith
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 6 2019, 05:10 PM) *
I don't think there's many bigger, longer-running systems that have not tried, to varying degrees of failure or relative success, to deal with these, from V:tM's atrocious Nazi fanwank to ... well, actually I can't really think of a positive example right now.

And I disagree. You don't need RPGs to pick apart well-known and well-understood historical atrocities any more than you need PBS: the game and a special DLC rape camp campaign. There's enough places and situations to discuss that, but an RPG supplement probably is not among them.


Charnel Houses of Europe stands out because it is one of the only TTRPG takes that are tasteful, and even then White Wolf of the same era fucked up in a lot of other places, like having openly neo-nazi werewolves.
hermit
Never bothered to have a look at Charnel Houses, because WW has a certain history of rightward edgelordness. Guess I'll hazard a look then.
Nstol_wisper
I went looking for references to JackPoint in the Steetpedia.
The last line of the entry..."If you're using JackPoint right now to read this, we're honered." makes it sound like they put the info in the streetpedia out.
Do you think this is a JackPoint book too?
Nstol_wisper
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2019, 02:46 PM) *
There have been more than enough of those. Personally, I don't need another WAR, Free Marine Corps, or more CAS fanwank. I'd like more coverage of the CAS as such though, maybe even an update on the Miami setting (shadowboxer is the only viable source and it's both 20 years old and .... Shadowboxer) despite the remurification. Not that the writers of this or previous publishers ever actually did anything with it, of course.


I saw a strong potential for a military plot about which side, UCAS, CAS,......which of them supported who, Amazonia, Aztlan, why and what were their Actions. scatter.gif
Nath
They did War! and several adventures set in Bogota and "The Triumph of Aztlan" chapter in Storm Front. They did Mil Spec Tech[i] and [i]Mil Spec Tech 2 and Euro War Antiques. They also did that adventure about the Kitty Hawk CAS aircraft carrier commanding officer hding a fake artifact in his cabin for the sole reason that the author wanted to write an adventure set onboard the Kitty Hawk in Artifacts Unbound and that other one with UCAS shedim special forces.

So I guess some people saw a potentiel to it, and ran with it.
Nstol_wisper
QUOTE (Nath @ Jul 8 2019, 02:39 PM) *
They did War! and several adventures set in Bogota and "The Triumph of Aztlan" chapter in Storm Front. They did Mil Spec Tech[i] and [i]Mil Spec Tech 2 and Euro War Antiques. They also did that adventure about the Kitty Hawk CAS aircraft carrier commanding officer hding a fake artifact in his cabin for the sole reason that the author wanted to write an adventure set onboard the Kitty Hawk in Artifacts Unbound and that other one with UCAS shedim special forces.

So I guess some people saw a potentiel to it, and ran with it.


More current plots about the War and the UCAS and CAS I say.
We know how the Corps feel. But the wouldn't the militaries mentioned have had at least some small operations in the Amazonia Aztlan war hoping to tip the balance? It was not mentioned much. And it looked like a great place to introduce some new characters.
UCAS and CAS could easily fall on opposing sides of the issue.
binarywraith
No thanks.

War is a terrible place for shadowrunners. No money to be made, and expecting patriotism out of neo-anarchist street punks is laughable.
hermit
QUOTE (Nath @ Jul 8 2019, 09:39 PM) *
They did War! and several adventures set in Bogota and "The Triumph of Aztlan" chapter in Storm Front. They did Mil Spec Tech[i] and [i]Mil Spec Tech 2 and Euro War Antiques. They also did that adventure about the Kitty Hawk CAS aircraft carrier commanding officer hding a fake artifact in his cabin for the sole reason that the author wanted to write an adventure set onboard the Kitty Hawk in Artifacts Unbound and that other one with UCAS shedim special forces.

So I guess some people saw a potentiel to it, and ran with it.

There's also the One Step Ahead adventure sketch in Corporate Intrigue, where Lofwyr has the runners infiltrate a nuclear submarine and two (2) aircraft carriers to enable Krupp to spy on the CAS, Ares and UCAS. Miraculously, the plot does not end with disposal of the runners (when I ran it, they got to choose between magically altered memories or a four-week chemical/PAB mindwipe).

QUOTE
More current plots about the War and the UCAS and CAS I say.
We know how the Corps feel. But the wouldn't the militaries mentioned have had at least some small operations in the Amazonia Aztlan war hoping to tip the balance? It was not mentioned much. And it looked like a great place to introduce some new characters.
UCAS and CAS could easily fall on opposing sides of the issue.

That's a campaign that would need special characters. It has been done before - 2nd, 3rd and 4th Edition companions had special rules and ideas for non-runner campaigns, and there even has been an adventure supplement in 2nd dedicated to such campaigns (including the memorably insane UCAS sterilized mage girl academy on a black site in Athabascan plot).

However, for shadowrunners? a non-starter. Typical runners don't work well in the authoritarian, top-down, machistic and in case of the UCAS, CAS and Aztlan, borderline to fully fascist structures of an army. Also, pay is shit; runners have much better options and higher expectations than the meager wages the armies of the 6th world can offer. Plus, the army likes their troopers standardized - and not special-sized, special-equipped and with augmentations from all over the place, complicating resupply, miantainance and maintaining combat readyness greatly. Besides, try to fit trolls into APCs when they'Re designed with humans to orks in mind.

Bottom line: runners don't fit well with the army.

A way to integrate runners into a military-centered campaign would be to either have the team organize as a small PMC (which would require a bunch of goon and logistics NPC), and hiring with a company or similar unit as "special ressources" as a poor man's black ops squad (this would probably work well for the CAS forces, as they seem semiprivate, state-bound militias with little in terms of centralized command structure anyway). Or just play a mercenary campaign, with merc contracts instead of Johnsons.
binarywraith
Yeah, the last thing a military wants is the equivalent of a black-ops specialist squad that is also mercenary and completely unreliable when it comes to blindly obeying orders.
Nstol_wisper
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 10 2019, 02:42 AM) *
Yeah, the last thing a military wants is the equivalent of a black-ops specialist squad that is also mercenary and completely unreliable when it comes to blindly obeying orders.


And so let art imitate life..... rotfl.gif biggrin.gif
Ironic and funny!

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