how many rounds should a shadowrunner carry if he doesnt use much more than a pistol on average.

At most, three clips normal, three clips gel, and three clips hollow-point or Ex-Ex.

Carry around maybe two clips each of normal or gel at most while just walking around, maybe all of the clips while on an actual run.

How many rounds? All of them, of course.

Seriously, though, I rarely carry more than three clips including the one in the gun.

~J

standard in my games seems to be 2 clips of standard (or EX, or apds, personal preference) and one of gel. That's it.

4 mags for my Manhunter. Including the one loaded. Usually ExEx since if you have to fire the gun, you want to make sure what you hit dies. Screw gel rounds

On assault mission, at least 180 rounds for the SMG or Assault Riffle. Thats 6 magazines @ 30 rounds a mag.

Geeze, Shadow, that's a lot of ammo. Of course, that might be because the Alpha takes 42 round clips and those weigh in at about 4 kg each and that's what I'm used to packing.

Anyway, the question is, how much weight can you carry? Because that's pretty much the answer if you're going on a run

The only time there's a such thing as too much ammo is when you're walking through chemsniffers.

It seems like it but it really isn't. When I was in the army we carried 7 mags of 28 round mags for out M-16's. That was our combat load out. Considering you burn through a mag in about 20 seconds....

Well like you said, to much is never an issue, you carry all you can carry. When I die, it will not be because I ran out of ammo.

The trick is to start packing the opposition's weaponry as soon as you can, IMO.

~J

Amen to that!

In SR terms, if you're carrying a pistol then probably a couple of spare clips will do the trick. I'd go for about four in total too.

But for automatic weapons you really want to be carrying all you can, and have it readily available for loading too. Considering you can go through a whole clip in one combat turn, I'd probably carry at least half a dozen full clips too.

Being a little more scientific about it, take your average number of phases per combat turn, take your average number of shots per phase, and then try to get about 10 combat turns worth of ammo. For an automatic weapon in the hands of a wired street sam, that's probably about 180 rounds (figuring 3 phases per turn, 2 3 round bursts per phase) or 5 clips for an Alpha. If you've got the RC to go full auto that'd be 300 rounds (or about 7 clips for an Alpha). A SA pistol would be "just" 60 rounds (4 clips for a pred). That kind of math kind of indicates the "as much as you can carry" adage

That said, most weights in SR are screwy and I image that ammunition is no exception.

I usually go with one clip in each gun and two spare clips for each. Since most of my characters tend to carry two pistols, that's a total of six clips. I tend to prefer two clips each of regular ammo or EX Explosive if expecting some major opposition and one clip each filled with capsule rounds and a DMSO/Gamma-Scopolamine or DMSO/Neuro-Stun X cocktail if on a budget.

It's all about the innocent bystanders. Especially the innocent bystander Trolls.

~J

I like the idea of carrying Hollow Point rounds, but it makes more sense to go with Glazer, Mercury or Flechette.

I'd generally go with 2 guns, each loaded with regular ammo, plus a spare clip of regular, one for unarmoured targets and one for armoured targets (for each gun, natch). Not too keen on explosive...

Gel rounds are actually really good for a lot of situations. Besides the reduce risk of innocent bystanders being killed, their -2 power is generally more than made up for by the fact that your foe resists with impact armor and has a higher knockdown chance if he takes damage.

Most of my characters carry a clip of gel loaded in the weapon and two or three clips of Ex-ex in addition. I figure that if you go through one clip of gel, then playtime is over. That, and with a smartlink, it's just one simple and one free action to change to a better type of ammo.

Yeah. They're great against unarmoured targets, but then how often do you encounter them? Besides which, anyone who's unarmoured will be in trouble if they get shot.

CC has lots of different ammo types, but alas most of them aren't much use in a typical combat. Regular, Gel, EX, APDS and AV are about the best of the bunch, if you ask me. Capsule is good too if you're not bothered about the price.

Hollow point (and by extension Mercury and Glazer rounds) rounds are good against critters and not much else. Flechette rounds are in much the same boat, though they're definitely better tham Mercury rounds and probably better than Glazer and Hollow Point rounds as well.

Incendiary, Tracer, Tracker, Hi-C, and Capsule rounds are all good, if you've got the and an application where you can use them to full effect. Other than that, the standard set (regular, APDS, AV, Ex/Ex-Ex, and Gel) are in most common usage.

Oh, does anyone know what the deal with "stun rounds" in the listings at the back of the CC is? It looks like a typo, but it's always worth asking about such things

Hmm, I dunno what "Stun Rounds" is all about. I don't see it listed in any older books or anything.

Perhaps it refers to something like spare cells for stun batons, such as the AZ-150? Or shock gloves etc. Other than that, I have no clue.

"Stun rounds" are rubber buckshot rounds for shotguns.

Glazers and hollowpoints are good if your GM likes to mess with overpenetration. If you're in a biowarfare lab, sometimes you don't want those stray rounds to break anything...

No, those are Stun Shells. Stun Rounds are a ghost entry on the table for standard firearms.

I carry a clip of hollow points loaded in my Taurus PT 24/7 9mm, and a spare clip of regular FMJ, IRL. I doubt when some idiot's looking down the barrel of it he's gonna go "Well, I have on a bullet proof vest, those HP's won't be as effective." Basically, ammo, just like guns, are tools needed for different jobs, and you should plan accordingly. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Really, it's not a lot of ammo. 6 spare mags is about what I'd drag with me for an assuredly quick firefight. If I were concerned about things getting worse, that number can easily double.

The trick is to match the load to the job, if you're just walkin' the street doin' a little reconnisance then it's about concealability, the smallest pistol and MAYBE a spare clip and you should get in most places. You have to balance what you expect to happen when you walk through the doors with what you can get away with hiding on your body. I tend to pack as roomsweeper in a concealable holster under a long coat. I think that works out at about 12 without any spare rounds but this starts falling when you put a few shells in your pocket.

Smallest pistol? LIGHT pistols? Ewwwww... Concealability is great, but jeez... You'd have a better chance with harsh language.

I'm looking at a real-life carry rig involving a Glock 19, which means that (if I top it off) I'll have 16 rounds in the gun, with two 15 round magazines availiable for reloads. Gun would go either under the left arm or on the left hip (for a crossdraw), with the two spare magazines under the right arm or on the left hip next to the gun.

Body armor being a big rarity in the US, I'll be carrying one magazine of hollowpoints, one of Glasers, and one of FMJ. The hollowpoints and glasers have a similar effect (being frangible, they reduce the risks of overpenetration). Glasers are better at avoiding overpenetration through walls (making them a better choice than hollowpoints indoors) but also have serious problems maintaining good terminal ballistics at longer ranges, so the gun is going to be loaded with either hollowpoints if I'm going to be outdoors a lot (driving, walking downtown, etc), and the Glasers if I'm indoors (going to a movie, going shopping, etc). The FMJ would be availiable as a spare magazine for situations where I find myself faced with a surface I actually need to penetrate (like glass, or a car door, or something I haven't thought of yet).

I figure if I end up in a situation where I need more than 46 rounds, I've screwed up.

As a runner, my usual configuration involves a very similar assortment for daily carry. One mag of explosive (usually loaded), one mag of gel (because this is a nonlethal option that's not availiable today, which I would really like to have), and one mag of either standard (which penetrates reasonably well) or APDS (which penetrates REALLY well, but is hard to get).

On a run, it depends on how low profile you have to be. With a gun in your armpit and two mags on your belt, it's not hard to get two more mags under your other arm, and two more on the opposite side of your belt without getting really noticeable bulges if you have any sort of jacket or loose shirt. If you're REALLY trying to stay low-profile, the initial "two spare mags" route should be fine (since getting into a gunfight means you've screwed up badly, anyways). If you're going high-profile (obvious gear, body armor, the whole deal), then you've either got a long gun as a primary weapon (anything SMG or larger) with an appropriate number of mags or shells with maybe four spare handgun mags... or your handgun *is* your primary weapon, in which case you should have as many magazines as you can comfortably carry, as well as a backup handgun of some sort with a couple of spare magazines. If a player with only a handgun informed me he had 12 magazines in pouches on his vest and belt, I really wouldn't complain. He is, after all, walking into a firefight with one of the worst possible choices of weapons... I'm not about to spite him having enough ammo for it.

One common practice is to have your main gun loaded with one ammunition type, and your secondary gun loaded with another. Putting hardball ammunition into your handgun when the suppressed SMG is loaded with gel ammo (or vice versa, if you want) gives you the ability to transfer between lethal and non-lethal rounds by simply switching weapons (a simple action), rather than forcing the player to eject a magazine, insert a new one, and ready the weapon to rechamber the new type of ammunition (three simple actions, or two simples and a free if you've got a smartlink). Having your main gun on a sling (and maybe a lanyard on your handgun) helps a lot here, since you don't have to worry about recovering the gun you let go of when you swapped.

Depending on the run, different stuff is needed. That's been covered. When not expecting (or looking for) trouble, one magazine ("clip") of EX explosive rounds in a heavy pistol and another magazine of EX explosive rounds ready to go. For a non-lethal option, a taser.

People do it nowadays, mostly to feel safe. Extend muggers into wired-up troll mage muggers, and I'm surprised more people don't walk around with assault rifles and MMGs

Yeah, I can understand it in SR, but I think he was talking about doing it IRL.
The thing is, think about the ranges that muggings take place at, I'd say at about a metre or two. If your mugger has, let's say, a knife, he holds you up with it, if you go for your gun, he either stabs you or he runs for it, and I don't care how lax your gun laws are, it's still illegal to shoot someone in the back when they're running away.

If he has a gun, there is no way in hell you can draw before he shoots you, so having a gun really doesn't help. The best thing to do is to learn to disarm people, that way, when you get attacked, you end up with the weapon, and they don't. Of course the most important thing is to survive, so don't do anything stupid, we'd hate to lose you.

If a psycho mugger jumps out at you, and he's already got his gun or knife aimed at you and ready to be used, I wouldn't try disarming. Just give him the damn cash and try to remember his face for the sketch artist. We all have dreams of being heroes, but sometimes it's best to realize that your life is not worth the $20 in your wallet.

JaronK

Reminds me of something that happened to a good friend. He was walking from a strip club down a grass hill to a night club (as bouncers at teh night club we got free admittance to the strip club, since we liked the atmosphere and they didn't have a lot of security on staff we often stepped in).
Anyway, he was walking, it's dark and a short mexican guy (I say short because Matt, the guy this happened to is like 6'4 maybe 6'5", so everybody is pretty much short) jumps in front of him with a knife in hand, asking for his money. He thinks it over, decides no and punches the guy from the surrender position in the face, knocking him cold. Matt rolls him over and snags the wallet, taking the guys 20 bucks. Matt says "sweet, doubled my money" and walks on tot he club.

Personally, 20 bucks ain't worth it, but I also say if you try to mug someone and get your arse handed to you, you deserve what ever comes short of death.

Mugging the mugger. Best story ever, man.

Because in the game we actively use that gun as part of our primary source of income. It's not a "what if", killing and being killed are a part of everyday life while Running. For instance, I don't take a gallon of water with me when I go to the store, even though it's possible that I may get trapped in rubble somewhere along the way. Change the scenario to me hiking somewhere, and that gallon of water becomes a lot more important.

~J

But, you can get killed in real life, too. The odds are much less, admittedly, and a lot of people never have to deal with it. But violent crime happens, drunken brawls happen, and people get hurt... I see no reason to be a victim. That gallon of water doesn't matter on the way to the store because someone will dig you out of the rubble before you die of thirst. If you're in a situation where your life is in danger, a 3-5 minute police response time isn't acceptable, and might get you killed. Having a gun with you doesn't mean you have to use it... it just means you've got the option.

Carrying a gun is a big social responsibility and a pain in the ass... but it's stuff I'm willing to deal with because of the big "in case." I worry too much Besides, if every run you go on involves a lot of lead flying around, it's time to learn to use something heavier than a handgun.

It doesn't need to involve a lot of lead flying around. Even if you pull off a run perfectly, not a shot fired, there's still that risk of getting killed or being forced to kill. It's a high risk, too; a lot higher than the risk of getting mugged in the first place, let alone being mugged by someone a gun would help against. Running is fundamentally dangerous in a way that few people on this board will ever encounter.

And a gun isn't going to keep you from being a victim.

~J

A weapon? Shit...

maneius, in the states anyways it also adds to your social responsibility.

Here is the skinny,

Scenario

I am walking down the street smelling flowers and minding my own business when some crack addict comes running out of a convenience store. Crack addict does not see me, but he is waving some piece of crap .32 caliber pistol around.

What do I do?

A. Dive for cover and hope he doesn't see me?
B. Dive for cover, draw my pistol and shoot him?
C. Rush him and hope that I get to him before he turns and see's me?

If I am carrying a gun the answer is B. By law. If you carry you are legally responsible to intervene if you can do so. It differs from state to state so the language may nt jive.

Being who I am, I am going to do something about this anyways. It is in my nature. I can't stand around and do nothing while people are hurt or killed. So I might as well carry a gun eh?

As for the mugging thing, your right. $20 bucks isn't worth it. But what if he shoots you anyways. What if he decides it's $20 bucks and your wife? What if it's $20 bucks and your daughter?

Carrying a gun doesn't seem that bad of an idea eh?

Still doesn't seem like any better an idea. If that person was a threat to me unarmed, they would be a threat to me when I'm packing, too. If I have time to draw, I have time to hit them.

~J

Notice I said crack addict and not well armed, obviously trained, and well planned robber.

Which increases the risk. If they know what they're doing, they're more likely to give up if the other side clearly has the advantage. A crack addict might just start shooting anyway.

~J

<points to where he said draw gun and shoot him, not yell 'freeze'.>

I am not a cop, I don't have to give fair warning, All I have to do is prove that life was in danger. A mad man waiving a gun around after robbing a store is proof enough.

*Shrugs* You're the one taking the risk, not me. Knock yourself out.

~J