Full Version: CSI: Shadowrun
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| p283: Gas grenades through Camouflage Clothing. No Fixers visible. ~J |
That's odd. My PDF printout has Sample Contacts starting on pg 282 and continuing until critters start on pg 285.
I can double check this later against my hardback copy. Regardless, my book says under fixers
Uses: Job and Cred, Information, GEAR, additional contacts
then in the descriptive the following line:
" Whatever you need, he can get it for you: jobs, guns, info, wheels..."
I submit to you that GUNS especially is exactly what I was talking about. I'm not suggesting he's sitting on a warehouse full of stuff, but he is moving it from point A to point B... B being the runners hands. A being 'someplace not in the runners hands'... and if Ares offers him a few thousand nuyen a month to list who got what gats? He'll cough it up and the runners never the wiser.
The source of our confusion is that you used the nonspecific term BBB. Unless I'm mistaken, you're consulting the SR4 core book. Anyway, there's a difference between having guns and being able to get someone guns. The latter is entirely a matter of knowing people, and while it might involve corporate contacts (even of the sort you describe), it doesn't involve the kind of bulk purchases that make such contacts inevitable or give them great hold on a Fixer.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| The source of our confusion is that you used the nonspecific term BBB. Unless I'm mistaken, you're consulting the SR4 core book. Anyway, there's a difference between having guns and being able to get someone guns. The latter is entirely a matter of knowing people, and while it might involve corporate contacts (even of the sort you describe), it doesn't involve the kind of bulk purchases that make such contacts inevitable or give them great hold on a Fixer. ~J |
Yes, SR4 core. Sorry, I'm new and not entirely up on all the local terms here...
Just as I expect there are different ways to interpret how Fixers provide gear/guns/whatever, there are different fixers out there with their own preferred methods.
In other words, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying I'm right.
I'm not sure I implied that your typical fixer sits on a warehouse full of neat stuff. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. He is, however, a source... and probably one of the least trustful that the Runner could turn to. I'd bet more than a few fixers, those with particularly new or needy runners, DO keep a small stockpile of common guns and ammo on hand, just to cut down the overhead transactions. Not in his house, necessarily.
Say Runner X hits a gun shipment and comes out with dozen cases of brand new Ares Predators he wants to unload. He sells them to his fixer, who promptly turns half (or more...) back over to ares for more than he paid for. He takes half of what's left and unloads them to his armsrunner buddy, and another case or two to Novatech, who want's to use them to set Ares up. He keeps one case in 'storage' for when runners need guns quickly. Saves him having to go buy some and sell them back, he sells straight and keeps the money.
Now, when he turns over half the stolen shipment back to Ares, one of the points on the negotiation table will be the disposition of the rest of the shipment. Ares doesn't care, the shipment was insured, and the lost guns are returned for less than they'll cost to replace. Now, if they know Novatech bought a bulk shipment, and those guns are used on a run against an Ares R&D lab, they'll know right away who to blame, and return the favor against. Knowing that a few cases are headed to the Yucatan allows them to start moving ammo and replacement parts to move at inflated rates on the black market. Knowing which runners have guns? Just a pleasant bonus, especially if Ares needs to know who just grabbed their super-widget so they can get it back before it ends up in the wrong hands...
Spike, I have to disagree, here.
Most Fixers are the Runners who got so successful at making contacts that they wound up doing so many favors and recipricosities that they woke up one morning and it hit them "I haven't been on a Run in a month! I've been Fixing."
As old runners, they know full well that those kind of shennanigans will get your ass capped.
Most Fixers are the Runners who got so successful at making contacts that they wound up doing so many favors and recipricosities that they woke up one morning and it hit them "I haven't been on a Run in a month! I've been Fixing."
As old runners, they know full well that those kind of shennanigans will get your ass capped.
As a fixer who is more important to you?
The Big Bad Megacorp who has all the money and jobs to pass your way? Or one of a half dozen groups of wet behind the ear's runners who haven't got your years of expirence running the shadows?
Right.
Always wins out.
The Big Bad Megacorp who has all the money and jobs to pass your way? Or one of a half dozen groups of wet behind the ear's runners who haven't got your years of expirence running the shadows?
Right.
Always wins out.
| QUOTE (Spike @ Jan 30 2007, 07:59 PM) | ||
That's odd. My PDF printout has Sample Contacts starting on pg 282 and continuing until critters start on pg 285. I can double check this later against my hardback copy. Regardless, my book says under fixers Uses: Job and Cred, Information, GEAR, additional contacts then in the descriptive the following line: " Whatever you need, he can get it for you: jobs, guns, info, wheels..." I submit to you that GUNS especially is exactly what I was talking about. I'm not suggesting he's sitting on a warehouse full of stuff, but he is moving it from point A to point B... B being the runners hands. A being 'someplace not in the runners hands'... and if Ares offers him a few thousand nuyen a month to list who got what gats? He'll cough it up and the runners never the wiser. |
Fixers that do that commonly end up dead when runners find out. Ratting out your business partners is not good business, especially when your business partners are shadowrunners. I don't care how experienced you might be, or how many contacts you might have, if anyone ever finds out, not only is that team gunning for you, but your rep goes to shit with anyone else whose info you might have sold.
I have been thinking of making an ex-fixer character (with all the social flaws to boot of hunted, dark secret, etc.) who jumped from somewhere like Australia to Seattle because he sold out one of his clients, and now has had to assume a new identity and is basically on the run.
We obviously have a different view of the Fixer/Runner relationship. Runners are subcontractors. The Fixer is not their agent, not their buddy, and he is not their mother.
Johnsons, and by extension, the Corps want deniable assets. The Fixer provides them. Runners are the BOTTOM of the shadow world, the scum that get the jobs that Corps don't want to send valuable in house assets on. Runners don't have any real power in the relationship. They have marketable skills, but then so does a bum with a handful of skillwires. People are no longer important, only money.
It helps to think like the worst cynic you know, then take it about five steps further.
Or to put it another way: Can your fixer really afford to say no to a corp like Ares? He can't fight them, and there are only so many Mega's putting out jobs for runners. If Ares stops sending him jobs, he's out of luck. If a team of runners stop working with him, he can always go round up a new group of talent and put them into the meat grinder. And unless your runners are regularly hacking their fixer's comm traffic, they are extremely unlikely to learn that he regularly sells Ares information about what goods he's moved.
Johnsons, and by extension, the Corps want deniable assets. The Fixer provides them. Runners are the BOTTOM of the shadow world, the scum that get the jobs that Corps don't want to send valuable in house assets on. Runners don't have any real power in the relationship. They have marketable skills, but then so does a bum with a handful of skillwires. People are no longer important, only money.
It helps to think like the worst cynic you know, then take it about five steps further.
Or to put it another way: Can your fixer really afford to say no to a corp like Ares? He can't fight them, and there are only so many Mega's putting out jobs for runners. If Ares stops sending him jobs, he's out of luck. If a team of runners stop working with him, he can always go round up a new group of talent and put them into the meat grinder. And unless your runners are regularly hacking their fixer's comm traffic, they are extremely unlikely to learn that he regularly sells Ares information about what goods he's moved.
The Fixer may provide them, but that is one of many ways to obtain deniable assets. Working with a freelance Johnson is another, and using an in-house Johnson that has his or her own contact list is yet another.
As for Ares, yes, he absolutely can afford to say no if he's diversified enough to call himself a Fixer. He may not be able to say no to Ares, Shiawase, Renraku, Aztechnology, and Saeder-Krupp all in one year, but the wonderful thing about competition is it means there's multiple suppliers to choose from.
Besides, if things are really deniable the Fixer isn't going to know who he's working for (though he may suspect).
~J
As for Ares, yes, he absolutely can afford to say no if he's diversified enough to call himself a Fixer. He may not be able to say no to Ares, Shiawase, Renraku, Aztechnology, and Saeder-Krupp all in one year, but the wonderful thing about competition is it means there's multiple suppliers to choose from.
Besides, if things are really deniable the Fixer isn't going to know who he's working for (though he may suspect).
~J
Yeah, in my mind a true Fixer has contacts amongst multiple corps. And while I also agree that Shadowrunners are the bottom of the Shadow world, they are a very dangerous part of it. While extenuating circumstances may force a Fixer to rat out one of his teams, it should be an incredibly rare occurance. I mean, he better pray to his dear and fluffy lord that the runners don't find out that it was him(and lets face it, runners are experts at finding out what they're not supposed to know) because I know that if I dealt in a business where my identity was my most closely guarded secret, and someone I trusted ratted me out, I would be very very angry. And depending on the level of callousness of the Runner team, that anger might overflow from the fixer to his family/friends/favorite pet/etc.
*EDIT*
P.S. This does bring up a question I haven't really thought much about though. How do Fixers get paid, theoretically? Do Johnsons pay them seperately from hooking up the runners? Are they paid a flat rate or per job? I know Fixers take a little off the top when they hook up runners with gear, but what about the runs themselves?
*EDIT*
P.S. This does bring up a question I haven't really thought much about though. How do Fixers get paid, theoretically? Do Johnsons pay them seperately from hooking up the runners? Are they paid a flat rate or per job? I know Fixers take a little off the top when they hook up runners with gear, but what about the runs themselves?
There is room in the game for all the definitions so far mentioned and the varied degrees of grey that is metahuman relationships allow for a lot of likely outcomes. Ultimately what makes the best story should rule.
Some fixers specialise, some dont. Some fixers have a cause, some dont. Some will reveal data for (insert reason), some will die silent. Etc etc
It is the great game of who do you trust?
Edit
The smart fixers get their percent from both sides. -_0
Some fixers specialise, some dont. Some fixers have a cause, some dont. Some will reveal data for (insert reason), some will die silent. Etc etc
It is the great game of who do you trust?
Edit
The smart fixers get their percent from both sides. -_0
| QUOTE (Crakkerjakk) |
| P.S. This does bring up a question I haven't really thought much about though. How do Fixers get paid, theoretically? Do Johnsons pay them seperately from hooking up the runners? Are they paid a flat rate or per job? I know Fixers take a little off the top when they hook up runners with gear, but what about the runs themselves? |
IMO, they get paid early and often. Fee to start looking, larger fee to arrange a meet.
~J
This is why in my game, getting something from a fixer always costs 10+% more than getting it from a specialist. If you know a gun runner and a fixer, if you buy it through the fixer, the fixer probably gets it through the gun runner. That said, the fixer probably knows about the recent haul before you do and has already reserved them all so when you get there the runner can't sell you anything without the fixer's permission and at the fixer's price.
I've never meant to suggest that the Fixer is regularly passing over everything he knows about the runners to the corps. I mostly fixated on the datatrail of what they buy from him... if the corp is interested in tracking that.
Now if the Corp really wants the fixer to tell them everything, they can lean on him a lot easier than they can the runners themselves... and will. What that fixer will do is up to him, but I suspect most will fold and pocket a tidy profit. They MIGHT also tell the runners that Ares (say) is hunting up information on them if they have some loyalty to the shadows and the runners in question, they might even sell that tidbit for another profit.
What I AM suggesting is that a certain low level data, the type runners are likely to overlook or ignore regularly gets sold back up the food chain in return for considerations. The runners are unlikely to ever consider checking to see if Ares is tracking each Predator sold, even the ones Joe Sammy just bought from his fixer, and even if they DO they aren't too likely to draw that line back to the fixer.
See, Ares doesn't want to stamp out Shadowrunner Crime everywhere. Hell, they are probably one of the single biggest beneficiaries of the Shadows, both in jobs they hire runners for, and profits from selling guns ammo and other toys to the Shadow market. Tracking that stuff is just an... insurance policy... for them.
And the Fixer? In return for what he probably considers harmless inventory tracking gets some nuyen and a maybe first look at jobs from that corp.
Sure, the Fixer might not need Ares specifically, or their jobs, but then if every Mega corp does this sort of thing, as I suggest, then it kind of limits his options. Stand on principles and have no clients, or do what everyone does and keep the machinery running...
Now if the Corp really wants the fixer to tell them everything, they can lean on him a lot easier than they can the runners themselves... and will. What that fixer will do is up to him, but I suspect most will fold and pocket a tidy profit. They MIGHT also tell the runners that Ares (say) is hunting up information on them if they have some loyalty to the shadows and the runners in question, they might even sell that tidbit for another profit.
What I AM suggesting is that a certain low level data, the type runners are likely to overlook or ignore regularly gets sold back up the food chain in return for considerations. The runners are unlikely to ever consider checking to see if Ares is tracking each Predator sold, even the ones Joe Sammy just bought from his fixer, and even if they DO they aren't too likely to draw that line back to the fixer.
See, Ares doesn't want to stamp out Shadowrunner Crime everywhere. Hell, they are probably one of the single biggest beneficiaries of the Shadows, both in jobs they hire runners for, and profits from selling guns ammo and other toys to the Shadow market. Tracking that stuff is just an... insurance policy... for them.
And the Fixer? In return for what he probably considers harmless inventory tracking gets some nuyen and a maybe first look at jobs from that corp.
Sure, the Fixer might not need Ares specifically, or their jobs, but then if every Mega corp does this sort of thing, as I suggest, then it kind of limits his options. Stand on principles and have no clients, or do what everyone does and keep the machinery running...
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