I'll be running the Hunt in SotF's Hunt chapter in two days, and I've got one major issue: I couldn't prevent the rigger to keep his LMGed Strato-9. He couldn't use his rigger skills in the three last missions, and he's done some very nice roleplaying to earn the right to keep it during the hunt.
Problem is, I'm toast. Five-minute head start, and the drone is already scanning the area when the hunters start the pursuit. OK, they're well-concealed between powers and spells, but what ? They'll need about 2-3 minutes to get to the runners, so the rigger gets to roll 40-60 times (once every 3 seconds) for Sensor Tests. The concealment won't hold for long, all the hunters will get locked sooner or later, even if they take cover. nd once they're locked, they're dead.
Plus they have little chance to take the thing down: it can hover about 2 km above the battlefield, suffering little penalties in sensor-enhanced gunnery mode. Magic (through elemental manip spells at Force 5-6) will do nothing given the 5 points of armor
I've thought about granting one Great Form spirit on the hunters' side, to make use of its storm Power, at half force (Force 12 spirit: damage 6M minus 5 points of armor: about nothing). Anyway, as soon as the spirit will materialize, it'll be shot by the drone (we use alternative vehicle and spirit rules that weaken both, so you don't need a bazzoka to take a Strato-9 down, or a Tor shot for a spirit).
I'm dry, no ideas of how to provide my players with a real challenge. Somebody help me ?

Two things will pretty much save you. First, apply all modifiers for perception checks. Second, use spirit powers.

With the modifiers for cover and the spirit concealment powers, it shouldn't be difficult to make the sensor test rise by 9 or so ( +6 concealment power, +2 tight terrain, +1 fog/rain, raising the average guy's TN to be seen to probably 14 or so). Using the sensors, he only gets a few dice, in any case (5 in this case). The perception test would face an even higher number since it would be an open ended stealth roll. He would likely have a lot more dice for the task, though.

Finally, aside from concealment, the most useful spirit power is going to be Accident. Wind spirits have it and force the drone to make a crash test every time they use it. Summon one and have it move about, accidenting the drone every turn and he'll quickly decide he has more important things to do than scout.

And if the player makes the mistake of opening fire on the enemy then it's just a question of having the gargoyle or the drake knock it out of the sky...

ok i dont know the cenario but MIJI,rigger3. basicly one personwith a datajack and a remotecontrol deck playing havoc with the signals controling the drone

btw, anyone got an idea whre the jabberowcky rocket got stuffed in the SR3 books? icant find it

Add counter-drones from Rhonabwy's domain. After all, the guy has maglocks, cameras, and other high-tech stuff. He probably has radar, anti-aircraft batteries, and surveillance drones too to keep people from landing helicopters on his land. That's not even getting in to top-of-the-line MIJI electronic warfare systems. He said the PCs aren't allowed outside help -- he can just decide that a drone 2 km away is absolutely "outside", even if a PC is controlling it from "inside". If it gets within a certain proximity of the PCs, it's now part of their team and he'll let them duke it out with his pets. Otherwise, he'll use his resources to nuke it so the game stays "fair" in his twisted reptilian mind. Heck, if he's bored, he might go eat it himself.

--K

Mind filling us in on the house rules about spirits and vehicles? I have a few suggestions which will probably work, but I'd need to know how things have changed.

In regard to the repeated sensor tests, I would only permit an initial test to see if the sensors detect any targets. Additional tests are only permitted if there is a change in conditons/signatures.

This would keep things balanced and prevent players rolling endless dice until their tests succeed.

WHOA WHOA WHOA HOLD THE PHONE.

This is SO easy to deal with I think you just missed it. Remember where Rhonabwy said the runners must prevail with "NO OUTSIDE HELP?" Which includes spirits? Which includes ... drones? Soon as that drone hits the sky, the Hunters get liscense to use those roaming free spirits.

So, go ahead and let him use his "hahaha joo r toastorrz!" drone, then watch as the hunters die only to be replaced by a swarm of free spirits. The team will be saying a whole lot of "good move einstein" right up until they die.

So actually, you might wanna tone the spirits down because the players are gonna die if that happens....

I’ve come up with few ideas, the major issue remaining being the altitude the drone will fly at. The rigger PC has Rigger 3, so there are some points I can’t answer.
I could have the countryside full of beasts and critters, and the rigger wouldn’t know which ones are hunting them. Is there a limit to the number of targets that a drone can lock-on to after a sensor test ? We limit target acquisition at one per turn, so it might prove useful. Is there a limit to the number of targets a drone cn hove locked-on at the same time ? This way it could prevent the hunters from getting locked.
I need to find way to lower the drone’s altitude and to slow it down. That way the gargoyle might reach it and catch it. How much load can a Strato-9 stand ? Isn’t a gargoyle too hevy for it to keep flying ?
Just an idea from the top of my head: Can a Great Form Wind Spirit use its Movement power on both the drone (to slow it down) and the gargoyle (to increase its movement rate) ? This might be a way to get to the drone. Once it’s overloaded by the gargoyle’s weight, and probably a little damaged too, it will get closer to the ground.
Can I use the meteo to have the drone to fly under a certain ceiling ? Let’s say there are low clouds and rain, can the drone “see” through the clouds ? What’s the max altitude it could fly at in such a case ?
The major issue there is that the drone flies at 120m per turn, and that anything it spots coming towards it will be locked immediately and shot down during the next phase (it’s got a 20+ init...).
I can’t even target the rigger, he’s not static, he’s carried by his buddies with a levitation spell while he’s rigging...

Whup de doo ... he got the drone there. Like Rhonabwy the Great Dragon is gonna care what strings some punk ass runner pulled as he slates them for "pets next meal". Look at the cold hard reality of the situation.

The scenario is balanced around the characters not having that stuff. And the catch is if they use it, spirits come. No amount of string pulling is going to change Rhonabwy, hes above that.

So, using drone = free spirit swarm.

If you as the GM want to allow the drone without the swarm because of some roleplaying fine, but as youve realized the players will trample the encounter. If I were you Id have Rhonabwy make it clear there will be consequences for the drone, and if the players ignore him well, they shouldnt have.

As for no drones the rest of the missions, theres plenty of ways to include them there not here. Thats also part of the reason modules arent always the best because not every runner is useful every time. Give him the drone in the jungle one, but force it to fly low to avoid detection. Or in the Ruins of Tehran, its likely some merc could give him a drone for the mission courtesy of Radek. If you wanna give the player a break, this is the wrong mission to do it in, imo.

Fog or smoke-screen spell. If you really want to be nasty then let Rhonabwy cast a invisibility vs. machines spell on his side. ( He's a great dragon he knows lots of stuff. ) After all the dragon wants a fair fight, he won't let the players turn this into a cake-walk.

I wouldn't use spirits because the players aren't allowed to use spirits. The dragon could summon a spirit to eliminate the drone easily, but that's kind of cruel on the rigger.

The spirit beatdown squad is written in. Its there as the heavy handed conqeuence of them using anything but their own personal powers to fight off the hunters. Its not about being fair to the players, or cruel to the rigger. A Great Dragon caught them with their hand in his cookie jar, and they get to make a break for it rather than be squished. If they lose a drone or get hurt, well hey they *did* walk away from the whole hand in the great dragon's cookie jar event.

If you must allow the drone, have a chaff spell cast the round after it opens fire. (force and successes at your discretion) That allows it probably one quick kill or so, but then becomes much more difficult to use effectively.

Here's a novel concept:

Let the player get away easy this time. Not every game should involved the party getting by just by the skin of it's teeth. So the hunter idiots brought knives to a machine-gun fight. Boo-Hoo for them. For every shaft job the GM comes up with, the players should get an equal amount of time to 'give the shaft back'. It sounds like the PC/player spent a lot of time and effort holding on to the drone, and the first thing you want to do it make if useless?

I agree with CB. Not every encounter should be "GM should foil/counter whatever players come up with." For me, if the players think of some excellent idea to make a certain scenario a walk in the park, i have em do it that way.

I really dont like GMs who foil whatever nice ideas you come up with. Its like when i made a char who specializes in stealth and some real smart playing and everytime the GM gives a mission, the perception, sensor, detection ratings of all opposition are increased umpteen times.

" wha? he's a friggin' sec. guard, so what the f* he's suddenly equipped with thermo, ultra, xray vision enh. Oh! and a drone too? don't tell me he's also a rigger."