Something I've been noticing while messing with the NSRCG and looking through the rules.
1) Do attribute bonuses gained from bioware count toward racial maxima?
1b) If they do count toward the racial maximum, then what happens when, say, a human installs a Cerebral Booster 1 when he already has an Int of 9? Does his Int go to 10, or does it stay at 9?
2) In either case, how much Karma do you pay to upgrade a bioware-enhanced attribute? For instance, a human with a Quickness of 4 and Muscle Toner 2 (total Quickness 6) wants to increase his Quickness. Does he pay 10 Karma (4+1(Karma-bought)-->5 +2(Bio) = 7), 14 Karma (5+2(Bio)=6 +1(Karma-bought) = 7), or 21 Karma (5+2(Bio)=6 +1(Karma-bought, over Race-mod limit) = 7)?
Full Version: Bioware and Attribute maximums
1) Bioware boosts are "natural". They top out at your racial attribute maximum (9 for humans).
1b) He's got a lot of useless brain matter. His int stays 9.
2) You upgrade it as though the bioware-modified attribute were the base attribute rating. So if you had, say, STR at 1 and had a +2 from muscle aug, it'd cost you 6 karma to raise it (to 2+2 which is equivalent to 4).
The tradeoff is that when your raise skills, you get to use the bioware value as the base value for that, too.
1b) He's got a lot of useless brain matter. His int stays 9.
2) You upgrade it as though the bioware-modified attribute were the base attribute rating. So if you had, say, STR at 1 and had a +2 from muscle aug, it'd cost you 6 karma to raise it (to 2+2 which is equivalent to 4).
The tradeoff is that when your raise skills, you get to use the bioware value as the base value for that, too.
heh, that was quick. 
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome) |
| 2) You upgrade it as though the bioware-modified attribute were the base attribute rating. So if you had, say, STR at 1 and had a +2 from muscle aug, it'd cost you 6 karma to raise it (to 2+2 which is equivalent to 4). |
I thought it would in your example cost 8? Rating your going to x2??
Thus a Str1 character with muscle aug 2 has a strength of 3 rasing it with karma would cost 8?
Hence if you are wanting to use Bioware then the last point you gain from your bioware should put you at your attribute max (if you are wanting to be cost effective).
I thought bioware raised your attribute limits too?
1) I'm backwards. Stats cost 2x the level you're going to. I had 1.5 stuck in my head there for a minute. Yeah, str1+ aug2 raising by one point costs 8 karma. You use the natural rating for determining costs, and since bioware bonuses are natural, they count.
Other stuff:
Other stuff:
| QUOTE (SR3 FAQ) |
| It says that attribute modifications from bioware are considered "natural" and not "augmented," meaning that they affect the attribute's base rating. Does this also mean that an attribute modified by bioware (not counting cyberware) cannot exceed the Attribute Maximum? What happens if my human character with natural Strength 6 (and Strength Attribute Maximum 9) gets muscle augmentation 4? Strictly speaking, bioware cannot raise an attribute's natural rating above the Attribute Maximum. So the human character described above simply doesn't need muscle augmentation 4 (and the street doc would probably tell him that ... or maybe not, and just give him muscle augmentation 3 and keep the change). If the character had muscle augmentation 4 installed anyway, his Strength would still be limited to 9. If you desire a more high-powered game, then you can ignore this rule and allow bioware to exceed Attribute Maximums. The character's natural attribute ratings should never be allowed to exceed the Attribute Maximums, however, and you may wish to inflict bioware-stuffed characters with system overstress or other excessive bioware drawbacks (p. 78, M&M). |
Ok cool so me and you are on thew right page.
You got me thinking there for a second.
You got me thinking there for a second.
| QUOTE (Panzergeist) |
| I thought bioware raised your attribute limits too? |
Nope
yeah. bio can make you bullet-resistant, give you senses beyond the scope of mortal man, and allow you to breath anthrax with no ill effect, but it can't improve your physique beyond what you could accomplish in the gym.
Indeed, it seems pretty dumb to me too. But that's the canon take on it, and that's what I was looking for. Now I can proceed to ignore it and do what I want to do 
Well, bioware only seeks to add more muscle mass/whatever than already exists. The only two attributes where you are likely to run into the attribute limit are quickness and strength, both areas where the addition of tissue or the alteration of tissue could well have a limitation imposed by the nature of the body, etc. The simple truth is that having the bonus count as natural is hugely powerful in other ways (skill costs being one) and that allowing it to go as high as possible would make balancing this a little bit harder. Quickness 9 already means that you can get Pistols/weapon X 6/9 (from pistols 6) or stealth/sneaking 6/9 (from stealth 6) for a grand total of 11 karma each.
Check out the FAQ quote above, though (recently fixed so that it wasn't all bold). It does suggest ignoring the rule if you want a higher powered game.
Check out the FAQ quote above, though (recently fixed so that it wasn't all bold). It does suggest ignoring the rule if you want a higher powered game.
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome) |
| Well, bioware only seeks to add more muscle mass/whatever than already exists. The only two attributes where you are likely to run into the attribute limit are quickness and strength, both areas where the addition of tissue or the alteration of tissue could well have a limitation imposed by the nature of the body, etc. The simple truth is that having the bonus count as natural is hugely powerful in other ways (skill costs being one) and that allowing it to go as high as possible would make balancing this a little bit harder. Quickness 9 already means that you can get Pistols/weapon X 6/9 (from pistols 6) or stealth/sneaking 6/9 (from stealth 6) for a grand total of 11 karma each. |
Heh, actually the one I'm running into is my Troll-based character (we're doing something really different with this game) w/ a Cerebral Booster 2. I was planning on increasing her Int later, as one of her specialties is Launch Weapons, but I'm finding that difficult as, at Int 6, she's currently at the Troll's Attribute Maximum. Ah well, I guess them's the breaks.
At a certain point, adding more grey matter just doesn't make you smarter 
A six is already an impressive intelligence in the grand scheme of things. Most people have a 3 or 4, so you're well ahead of the bell curve.
If you want to break the racial attribute maximum, there are edges for that if you want to get above the herd.
A six is already an impressive intelligence in the grand scheme of things. Most people have a 3 or 4, so you're well ahead of the bell curve.If you want to break the racial attribute maximum, there are edges for that if you want to get above the herd.
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