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elph
I understand a number of the differences in meta/draco forms in abilities. What I'm most curious about it cost. Sometimes the books leave too much to figure on your own.

I know Drakes cost 25 points for race as a PC. Considering that... is that +25 points against the metahuman form you chose? Or do you pay your 25 and get to pick any of the races listed in any of the books (Aside from ghoul, shapeshifter, & otaku, none of those are able to be drakes I'm assuming.) Can you pick a metavarient as well for the low low price of 25 points? If you're doing the alternate point cost for the races then that metavarient troll / drake just got pretty cheap.

Do they have to buy a magic form seperatly? So to be a full mage / drake would cost you 55 points (25 Drake + 30 Full Mage)? Or are they some form of mage on their own costs? No matter what... can they always Astral percieve / project or only if magically active? Would a Drake even be worth it without being a mage as well?

Can a drake that knows Kun Fu (or any unarmed combat) use it and it's manuvers in draco form as well as meta? Can a drake use handheld weapons such as edged weapons, guns (any type), etc... while in draco form if it's been racialy modified by cost?


Those are all the ones I can think of so far. I'll keep this thread running if I come up with anymore. Thanks for any input.
mfb
the cost of being a drake is in addition to any race or magic you purchase. by the rules, nothing stops you from being a drake otaku, ghoul, or even shapeshifter, though most gms will probably nix you (especially on the last one).

as for kung fu and such, not sure. i'd be tempted to allow them to use Rea as their unarmed skill, just like critters do.
elph
I was confused over the point cost to be a drake because of Dot6W says it's 25 points (nothing about in addition to. I don't know if it was error or not) & it also lists it as Priority B in the Priority system and nothing for any other race is mentioned. I'm thinking it's just 25 points and you get any of the base races (no varients) for free and then if you want to be a varient you have to pay the varient cost difference.

Reasons I don't think they can be ghoul, otaku, or shapeshifters...
Otaku are a recent event in the scheme of things. I also don't think they can process things the same way. They are critters after all that can take a metahuman form and not a metahuman that can take a draco form. Dragon's can't use the matrix either.

Shapeshifters are too much like drakes already. Shapeshifters are animals that can take human form much like a drake. I don't see a drake being something that can turn into an animal that can turn into a metahuman or any mixture there of.

Ghoul is the only one I can't seem to logically come up with any reason can't exsist. I'm sure any creature (metahuman or critter) can get the Kreiger virus. I just don't think it would be something that would happen though. I think the drake's body would fight it off too well.
mfb
*shrug* i'm just talking about what the rules say.
Firyoshin
As for martial arts in both forms, sounds like it could work. As for The 3 exceptions, they should be allowed but only under Point System rules, Priorities wouldnt work (meaning u need 2 letters for Race), but Drakes are simply people who had been drakes in their bloddline (no matter how far back) meaning that an Otaku could have had a great-great-great-great uncle that was a drake so he could be one. Same with ghouls and shapeshifters(?) I would assume.
Pistons
Could, except being a ghoul is virus-related and being a drake or shapeshifter is heavily magic-related whereas otaku are not (in terms of game mechanics, that is).
Canid13
I would say that drake and shapeshifter is nutually exclusive since one is an animal and one isn't. Dragons of the Sixth World specifically states that bred drakes are metahumans who can change into a dracoform and not the other way around like a shapeshifter. So I would never allow that - you can't be born a wolf and a troll in one lifetime :o)

As for otaku and ghoul, I would allow those personally since one is a genetic/magical effect on the person (which I don't see as having to preclude getting genetic traits for being a drake from your ancestors) and a ghoul, well nothing says a drake can't catch a disease.

I am curious about the metaform though. And also whether powers work all the time, and if the drake can learn magical skills and how to weild mana as it kinda implies in Dragons of the Sixth World.
mfb
i like that answer, canid--drakes can't be shifters because drakes are metahumans and shifters are not. nice.
Fortune
Is it actually stated anywhere in Canon that Drakes can be of any metahuman race? Are there any examples of Drakes of any race other than human?
Canid13
Mfb, it's what Dragons says about them. A shapeshifter is an animal which can change into a metahuman, whereas a Drake is a metahuman that can change into a dracoform. Seems pretty cut and dried to me :o) It's all about what came first, the tiger/eagle/seal or the metahuman :o)

Fortune. Dragons of the Sixth World says that Drakes can be any metahuman race. I've not seen one in a published adventure, but that doesn't mean there never will be one.
Fortune
QUOTE (Canid13)
Mfb, it's what Dragons says about them. A shapeshifter is an animal which can change into a metahuman, whereas a Drake is a metahuman that can change into a dracoform. Seems pretty cut and dried to me :o) It's all about what came first, the tiger/eagle/seal or the metahuman

He wasn't arguing with you. He was agreeing with you...and probably staggered that there was one instance where the rules didn't actually contradict themselves in Shadowrun.

QUOTE
Dragons of the Sixth World says that Drakes can be any metahuman race. I've not seen one in a published adventure, but that doesn't mean there never will be one.


That's cool. I haven't yet read the actual write-up on Drakes in DotSW, so I wanted a specific answer one way or the other. I know that previously-unpublished does not equate to not-possible, but one could reason that the Elves prior associations with Dragons, both good and bad, would lead to at least one prominent Elven Drake.
toturi
There is one Canon example of an Elven Drake that I know of.
mfb
?
Fortune
Yeah, don't leave us in suspense! Details lad, details...
Ancient History
Survival of the Fittest, yeah. There was one.
mfb
oh, right. part of that wildly-outgunned hunting party.
Fortune
Uh huh! Further detail wouldn't kill ya, you know. nyahnyah.gif
mfb
it was an elven drake and a pack of intelligent critters--a centaur, as i recall, and a few others. y'all know how long critters last against runners, right?
Fortune
That sucks! I'd prefer to keep Drakes purely within the realms of humans, as they were the original base stock (correct me if I'm wrong here).

This would also eliminate all the other questions about multiple-raced characters, putting Drakes on a par with other character options like Otaku, Shapeshifters, etc.
Ancient History
<insert_shrug> Aardeala was a human/drake hybrid, but drakes themselves could take a number of metahuman forms. Even assuming they didn't spread themselves around much while the mana level was high enough for metahumans to manifest, once the downcycle hit and everybody was human or gone, everybody was fair game.
Fortune
I don't know about that. Just like the genes for elves or dwarves may have come down through specific bloodlines, so too might the Drake gene. There's no reason to assume that the downcycle affected things in that manner.
Ancient History
No reason to assume they didn't, either. 's all just speculation.
Fortune
Yeah I know. I'd just like to see it, so I can stack things in my favor if I want to. nyahnyah.gif wink.gif
Canid13
I can't remember which book it was, but it was talking about quaternary genetic structures which are normal ones until mana levels rise at which point they activate. That's how the genes passed down the bloodlines. Afterall, we do have bred drakes (drake-ness passed down from the forth world) and true drakes (newly created drakes).

Was that drake in SotF an elf? Damn, shame that - guess my party will eat them all alive then :o)
mfb
that was SOTA:63, where it talks about astral shadows and stuff.
Canid13
That makes sense, since it's got genetech in it :o)
Mr.Platinum
QUOTE (elph)
I was confused over the point cost to be a drake because of Dot6W says it's 25 points (nothing about in addition to. I don't know if it was error or not) & it also lists it as Priority B in the Priority system and nothing for any other race is mentioned. I'm thinking it's just 25 points and you get any of the base races (no varients) for free and then if you want to be a varient you have to pay the varient cost difference.

Reasons I don't think they can be ghoul, otaku, or shapeshifters...
Otaku are a recent event in the scheme of things. I also don't think they can process things the same way. They are critters after all that can take a metahuman form and not a metahuman that can take a draco form. Dragon's can't use the matrix either.

Shapeshifters are too much like drakes already. Shapeshifters are animals that can take human form much like a drake. I don't see a drake being something that can turn into an animal that can turn into a metahuman or any mixture there of.

Ghoul is the only one I can't seem to logically come up with any reason can't exsist. I'm sure any creature (metahuman or critter) can get the Kreiger virus. I just don't think it would be something that would happen though. I think the drake's body would fight it off too well.

Mother nature, just being SOTA.
Artemus
Well you guys hashed over what type of metahuman the drake is going to be and how much it should cost. I was wondering what would one do if someone wanted to be a Feathered Serpent Drake - as in he/she transforms into a Feathered Serpent rather than a Western.

DotSW does say that there are drakes of all Dragon types (pg 184). Now Feathered Serpents can't exactly use guns, and they are smaller than Westerns, so in turn I suppose Feathered Serpent Drakes might be a bit smaller. Would you give such a character a break and charge him less points for being a Feathered Serpent Drake? And would you decrease any of the attribute bonuses Drakes get while in Feathered Serpent form?
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
Now Feathered Serpents can't exactly use guns, and they are smaller than Westerns, so in turn I suppose Feathered Serpent Drakes might be a bit smaller.

Feathered Serpents use their legs as arms and feet as hands. Secondly, the size of the drake is not proportional to the dragon created by it as far as we know, but rather Drakes are sized to fit into metahuman dwellings an such. The Drake's form is not even that close to the dragon form and I wouldn't expect Drakes of Feathered Serpents to lack a spare pair of arms. But I don't really like Drakes for anything but Western Dragons anyway. I prefer thinking that each went a different way when it came to servants.
Ancient History
Drakes of other dragon subtypes resemble their creator or, in the case of bred drakes, progenitor. As far as I know, only Western dragon-based drakes have become bred drakes; true drakes appear in all manners like their creators, including number and type of limbs.

If a player wanted to play a non-Western type of dragon-based drake (including, presumably, but incredibly rare, a sirrush drake), then they get the form's benefits and disadvantages...such as wings (or lack there of), flippers (or lack there of) and prehensile thumbs (or lack there of).
GaiasWrath8
Hello all.

I am new but this question has driven me to join this post just so I could ask it.

The rules seem clear in the DotSW book, but they make no refrence to the Atribute modifiers for PC drakes. If we treat them like shifters, they would have two sets of Physical atributes and one set of mental atributes. Then they would have modifiers for both human (metahuman?) and drake form. Any clue what they might be? Any clue if my assumtion of treating them as shifters is correct? Also I am once again assuming they can use magic or physical adept powers in drake form as well as human form?

God my head hurts...

Thanks for any help.
Canid13
GaiasWraith, I suggest you read this thread. All of your questions have been discussed in some detail.
GaiasWrath8
I did read the thred but I could not find the atribute numbers, a definet on the human powers being ok in Drake form, and a few other things. I have started my own post on this subject and I am putting all the data I can find on drakes for all to see. I have gotten this all from books or from the people at shadowrunrpg.

Check it out and feel free to add to it if you have anything I missed.
Norsemen
How do drakes talk? Can they talk? Dragons can't talk normally but have dragonspeech? Drakes don't have Dragonspeech listed as a power. Not even true drakes have the power.
Fortune
Drakes cannot speak normally in Drake-form. Threats 2 states that dracoforms can communicate with each other through sounds, body movement, and a limited form of telepathy.
SinN
While in drake form a drake cannot use weapons. Only his/her claws, breathe, and magic abilties, if any.
Though it is possible to have a capable drake who is only an adept, a mage drake is suggested in my oppinion considering you can cast spells while in drake form.
Either way, you get a magic rating. Which brings me to my next point.
A drakes fire breathe (or whatever kind of breathe it may have) has a base damage of whatever its magic rating is. For example, my drake mage has a magic rating of 11. BUT, because he was an adept before becoming a mage, only 3 of those points are even useful for casting spells in meta form. (thank god for sorcery skill, eh?) But in drake form, all 11 points can be used for base damage for his fire breathe, and i think spells. Ill have to get back to you on the spells. Unless...someone else already knows?
nuyen.gif
SinN
Drakes can also use dragon speach. And Fortune is correct about the sounds, movements, and just body language really.
nuyen.gif
Mortax
QUOTE (toturi)
There is one Canon example of an Elven Drake that I know of.

I thought you were refering to someone else. smile.gif

[ Spoiler ]
fistandantilus4.0
Ther's also the little bit about him calling mercury Ryanthasaur and having some tripped out name like Nadjaruska or some shit.

Maybe she dissapeared because she awakened as a drake and is off getting her scales buffed to a nice shine.
Grinder
Oh god, please not!
fistandantilus4.0
Not a drake or not shiny scales?
SL James
Mmmm... scales.
Fortune
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Maybe she dissapeared because she awakened as a drake and is off getting her scales buffed to a nice shine.

If that is the case, maybe we'll be spared more descriptive text concerning a specific part of her anatomy.
SL James
Alabaster drake. That'd be a cool image.
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