If you start using common sense over rules, you're on a slippery slope that will eventually turn your game into one giant house rule. I'm comfortable with that, having done it, but can understand why some people would follow the book. They did pay $30 for it.

Number 6: That was a really great post, and aside from the really good guys (KE, Red Sams, those sort...), I think I have a pretty decent template for corpsec. Of course, they'd all be linked to those crack troops, just so my players don't have a cakewalk.

most likely your avarage mall "cop" will do 2 things when drek hits the orc, trigger panicbutton and run for cover...

Interesting take, #6. It drives home the point that it really depends on what you are guarding and how important the people paying security believe it to be.

My own experiences with DOE nuclear facilities and airports show that security guards don't exhibit those behaviors when properly motivated not to

Hence the distinctions between a 6 nuyen-an-hour rentacop and a professional security guard. Never mind the professionalism considerations of a private cop.

Unless you really want to question how enthusiastic a US Army MP can get in his daily routine.

-Siege

I guess it all depends on how strict the monitoring of the security guards is...

If all the monitoring consists of checking the times the guard clocked on and of for his shift, then the guard will probably spend most of his time drinking coffe, reading the paper or dozing, with occasional rounds for forms sake.

If the monitoring consists of checking maglock records for door activation etc then the guard will have to go on his prescribed rounds at the right times or come up with a way of inserting false records in all the logs

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes... Who is guarding the guards

It goes beyond pay and even, to an extent, beyond management and monitoring. If you can make the guard believe in the cause he's working for, he will do a better job. Some corps are going to have tihs going for them. Even the minimum wage-equivalent guard does a good job if be is either dedicated to doing a good job or terrified of doing a bad job.

It seems the big difference here is if the security is suposed to deal with the problem or just spot and report the problem. I can see security being hired for both purposes.

Concerning security guards concealing weapons or themselves, it depends on the environment. If it is a mall where the public comes and doesn't think about security, have it be concealed. If it is in an area where you expect to see security, have it out in the open and obvious as a deterrent to drunken Bob from accounting.

Concerning stray shots and damage, I know of a book example of how to run it. I could also see using the suppression fire rules to determine if it hits anyone. I can also see the GM just determining if stray shots hit anyone for the benefit of the story.

Concealed weapons:

1. Are they uniformed security or "plainclothes"?

Uniformed security will almost always carry a weapon in plain sight if they are indeed armed. Once you dig out the uniform, there is rarely a point in trying to hide anything else.

Plain clothes, including the suit-and-tie brigade will typically conceal the weapon, even if they scream "thug" from range.

-Siege

Security is definitely a matter of extremes. Good and Bad. Many corporation want to project a friendly and welcoming demeanor. Yet at the same time demand a high level of professionalism and control. Quite often a client assigns Security duties outside their contractual agreements. At the same time they do not want to be slowed down by Security checks and delays that they demanded.

Most Security Guards will hit the panic button, while diving for cover and worry about getting home that night. Others will become aggressive. Especially when you threaten the people they are they're to protect. Special Event Organizers' will often hire off duty Police to wear there uniform and act as a deterrent for trouble makers. It's illegal, but done.

Cheers

QM

Watch out for the off-duty cops making extra money on the side as a private sec guard.

Depending on local regs, it's not always illegal.

-Siege

It depends - some agencies prohibit officers from wearing their uniforms on such off-duty gigs while I recall one local agency prohibited officers from engaging in private guard work altogether.

Mind you, this is my vague recollection of news blurbs, so take it with a grain of salt.

Some events contract off-duty police and even on-duty officers, depending on the event and traffic requirements.

-Siege

Some IRL examples:

a) Porter

Low-paying job, only guards the door, checking that no one jumps over the gate instead of using a security card or registering with him. normally unarmed, may be sitting in the open or behind armored glass with opening for handing out daypasses. This is the lowest level of security. If threatened and behind armored glass, he'll speed-dial the police and hope for the best. If not behind glass, he'll surrender. Can often be fast-talked into bending some minor rules like "Guest must be escorted to the room they want to visit"

These guys are often found in public areas of banks and companies.

b) Nightguard

Again underpaid and often of low motivation (pensioner getting some needed extra money, student etc). Armed with a sturdy flashlight and maybe some CS-gas. Might be required to walk through the building every hour, mostly looking for open windows/burning lights. May have to check in at a clock on every floor. Reacts as a) to threats (and often replaces a after hours) Again, fast-talk helps a lot (One of this guys actually helped me load a 10000€ SUN maschine in my private car at 23:00, trusting my word that "I work here" and a non-picture business card)

Often used in "Rent an Office" buildings and low-security company offices [This actually includes banks!]

Bouncers in norma clubs/discos etc will also be found here

c) Security guard

Next step up from b). This might be an off-duty/former policeman or a full time employee of a security company. He is armed with a standard sidearm (Light or heavy pistol) and works often works with a partner, one making the round, one resting in a guardroom. Depending on the training he might actually engage an intruder if he believes he can persuade him to give up. Normally he will retreat and call for backup if confronted with heavy firepower. For him it's "a job" so he won't fight "to the death" unless it's "fight and maybe survive/escape or surely die"

Used in low-mid security areas where money/important data/important maschinery can be stolen. Also used in areas with a high amount of Vandalism (i.e. quite a few Berlin building projects). Might have a radio.

Bouncers in some better clubs (and some of the worst) will be found here as will most security-transport personnel


d) Corporate security guard

This guy is actually a full-time professional for the company he protects or a "High Thread" security company. The equivalent to a professional (non government) bodyguard or someone driving a money transport car for a high quality company like Wells Fargo. Unless absolutely necessary he'll be not much heavier armed than c) but might wear light concealable armor. If he uses heavier weapons, expect pump-action shotguns. Better trained and payed he is most likely a veteran that graduated from c) and is more likely to fight. He still will surrender before being killed and he still will call for backup.

When this guy makes the round, he has a partner and a very tight patrol shedule with multiple checkpoints per level. Miss two or three and the (silent) alarm goes off. He'll also have a "panic button" in the guardroom and they will have radio.

He works in mid-level and intermediate level security areas with confidential (say up to Secret) data. At this level the employee does a more serious background check, requiring statements from the police etc.


e) SR-style security guard / Military security guard

This are the guys guarding high-security compounds/labs/major corp headquaters. You won't see them much from the outside (Got to keep up the looks) but they are ready and they'll be there at knight. Heavier armor and Maschine Pistols/Assault rifles. Always in teams, always with radio. They are controlled by a supervisor from a secure guard room and an additional team is in standby. They will engage an intruder.

f) Plain cloth detective

The guys from a) to e) carry a uniform/badge and will show their weapons. They are there to deter all but the most dedicated/desperate. Think police officers and their very visible patrol cars.

This guy does not want to be seen. He is a more or less professional shop detective, guarding stores against pickpockets and general theft. Most malls will have a few that are "part of the rent" for the sub-contractors. They are often paid a small base money and some extra for every criminal they catch.

These guys are lightly armed (CS gas, maybe a Sap) since weapons use will endanger the customers. They have a mobile or radio to call for help.


Birdy

Of interest to anybody who is planning on disrupting the entertainment industry, e.g. extracting stars or sabotaging sets:

I've worked event security for concerts, musicals, and other such productions in several different venues. It's not uncommon in those cases for them to use stagehands for security (usually the more junior folks who aren't doing something technical during the show and take security for extra hours) and bring in a couple of cops for backup. On a few occaisions they had a separate security crew, but usually it was stagehands. The SOP varied between venues and between shows. For example:

Arena where I started: SOP was to stand around and look official, occasionally deal with things like people blocking aisles or taking unauthorized photographs. The backstage folks (most interesting for SR purposes) usually sat in a chair and read a book, and looked up when somebody went by. You didn't really know who was who, since there was a different show or event each week. You knew who the roadies were because you'd worked with them setting up that morning, and a few others who'd been there all day. Depending on the show, you might not even know precisely what the star looked like. Not a lot of questioning people unless they looked lost or otherwise out of place.

Same Arena, when Phish came: Stand there and look official. DO NOT under any circumstances interfere with an unruly patron. They are probably on something and possibly violent. Your job is to observe any truly dangerous behavior (people climbing on cables etc) and report them to the police who are here. DO NOT attempt to intervene yourself!

Theater where I worked for 3 years: Sit behind a card table and try your best to look official. You're not allowed to stand up under normal circumstances (might intimidate the performers). Reading is fine. Working on whatever is fine. Setting up a laptop and playing fallout is fine. Playing cards and sleeping is out--that's unprofessional.

Policy on questioning people: Usually you don't as long as they look like they belong. So many people come in with each show, you can't know who's who. Especially if they're wearing union apparel, don't question them! They might say that security wouldn't let them in, go home and demand to be paid anyway!

Same venue, when _Rent_ came: There's a list. If you don't know the person personally and know they're supposed to be there, get their name and only admit them if they're on the list. The list was also categorized as 'actors,' 'musicians,' 'crew,' 'management,' 'people always welcome at Rent,' etc. so we knew what context to expect people in. But still, if they're wearing union apparel, don't question them.

Mostly we dealt with lost patrons and people wanting autographs. I once had to go yell at the rent-a-cops guarding the parking lot to do their jobs (there was a football game on the same day as a concert and they were supposed to kick people out who were tailgating in our parking lot. ) We did have one incident of set sabotage, and we still have no idea how or when that happened. The place was totally unguarded at night. SOP in the event of shadowrunners would have been:

1) Notice (this is the hardest part)
2) Shit a brick
3) Dive for cover
4) Radio the stage manager for further instructions, which probably involve calling the cops and then getting away. And that's if the stage manager has her radio on.

From stories I've heard, that's about right.

And if you look like you know what you're doing and have a clipboard, odds are you won't get challenged.

S'why I hate reading stories about glaring breaches in secure areas. Depressing.

-Siege

I got a buddy who runs his own K-9 Security company. Like you guys said he just does his job. His motto is "There ain't no ninjas out there and if there are, they're gonna get what they came for."

But he also doesn't guard corp zero zones and have to deal with street scum shadow mages...

I just ask one of my players how he would react since he's a security gaurd....run away

Guards in green (Cold War days, West german army). Version A is a low security compound, version B high security with reaction force.

Barracks A:

Old barracks with only one active unit (towed 105mmhowitzers) and a "maintenance" troop for the buildings of the reserve Infantry Bat.(Vehicles where stored somewhere else). There wasn't much worth stealing and not enough personal to maintain a guard and a training shedule. Add in that any weapons fire out of the barracks was prohibited (It was inside the city!) The army hired civil guards with a well trained(and aggressive) K9 and a pistol. Two guards on the ground at any given time, another 4 at the watchhouse (one of them doing "gate" duty) Guards walked single but had a radio. No ready reserve (We would have called the police). All occupied buildings (four of them) had a Sergeant/Private of the guard pair on duty (one active, one asleep) that shared a single P1 Pistol w 8 round [for a total of 4 guns/32 rounds) and had to check some minor installations (Small arms ammo bunker) twice per night. The dayguard was two civilian guys manning the gate.

The guards would alarm and then investigate, using the dog as a thread/weapon. Their actual qualities as a shooter where low and their orders if faced with superior enemys where to retreat and call for help.

Barracks B:

One of the bigger ones in germany with three full-strength battalions and enough independent/semi-active units to make up two more. Also had two remote duty stations (ammo dump, supply dump). Rather remote (ca. 10km+ from the next town) location and a huge areas (It takes space to store two battalions of IFV and one each of Tanks and vehicles). Standard daytime guard complement was a full platoon (50 person[Split between the ammo dump and the barracks]) plus at least a Private of the guard in each house (also he wasn't armed). Everybody armed with either a Battle-Rifle or an Uzi. Patrols where two man affairs with a radio. A ready-reserve (on 5min alert) was present at the barracks (another platoon, including MG and RPGs[And armored vehicles in case of the mech inf/tankers]) At night one group of the ready reserve assisted in guard-duty. The private/Sgt of the guard was required to check some key points twice per night(alone)

Depending on the thread situation and the paranoia of the S2 (Mil. Intel) officer, guards carried anywhere between one full magazine (normal) and a full combat loadout including grenades. The ready reserve had vehicles ready and turned out in full combat gear when a real alert was given (Including a f... 600rnd of MG-Ammo for each of the four MGs!)

Guards where under order to call out any person they met that could not clearly identify himself and if attacked or the person tried to retreat stop him. With a warning shot if possible, with a hit if necessary. In-Official tip was "If you shoot, shoot to kill" (Officially: To stop him/Wound him) On the average one incident involving an over-eager "Sergeant of the guard" per year ended fatal for the Sgt. Around twice per quater a signpost or medium animal was engaged/killed, more when the thread level/terrorist level was high. Guard training stressed an "aggressive/dominant" behavior and an "if in doubt, gun it" stance with scenarios including hidden weapons and attacks posing as drunken comrades

Everybody who entered was to be checked at least cursory (show your soldiers pass and driving order when in a mil. vehicle) as where all mil. vehicles leaving. nighttime checks where thorough unless it was the Pizza-boy, daytime-checks more cursory (no guard checks at daytime ) Between 10pm and 6am no civilian vehicle was allowed in. Order was to detain anyone without proper papers, if necessary with force (including an RPG kept in the guards shack)

If the ready reserve was called out, the Sgt&privates in the buildings where armed with their standard weapons. The one time that happened to me, I finished the night in full combat loadout (at least the gave me a battle rifle instead of my base MG) and performed the required patrol that way. Around 100 armed people roamed the barracks and defended key points, searching for the intruder (someone thought an ammo bunker had been plundered) Whoever was "in" was also put on "reserve" and the mech. readied a platoon of IFV's. You couldn't walk 100m without being checked.


Guard behaviour:

On three occasions I was forced to find out that few people resist a 190cm/muscular 115kg armed with a pistol or rifle if he looked capable and willing to use it. On the other hand that spared me to find out wether I am able to use the gun...


Birdy

Yeah, like when the backup comes they're "what the hell kind o gun is THAT?" well armed.

"It's pointed at me. That's all I really need to know."

-Siege