Apathy
Jul 27 2004, 03:21 AM
Ok, say your a combat mage initiate wearing FFBA3 (4/1) and an Armored Jacket (5/3). Your base armor is now 7/4.
Now you summon a force 4 city spirit, invoke it, and channel it. This gives you immunity to normal weapons at the spirit's force (4), effectively giving you 8/8 hardened armor.
The question is, how does this 8/8 work with the 7/4 armor you got from your normal clothes? If the immunity effectively makes your skin harder, then you'd be able to reduce the overall power of weapons by your armor's rating before comparing it to your immunity to see if you're affected.
Example: Sam the Samari draws his Ranger-X bow (set for strength min = 10) and put an arrow dead-center on your chest doing 14M. I think it would work like this:
1. The arrow first hit your Jacket and FFBA, which slow it down (reducing the power of the attack by 7 down to 7M).
2. You compare the adjusted power of the attack (7) with the level of your immunity (8/8 ). In this case, the attack wasn't quite strong enough, and the arrow bounces harmlessly off the mage's chest.
Is this how you'd do it?
mfb
Jul 27 2004, 03:24 AM
is there a reason you need to Invoke the city spirit for this to work? all spirits get Immunity: Normal Weapons.
Necro Tech
Jul 27 2004, 03:39 AM
Just to nitpick, your base armor would be 7/3. As for the other that would be a tough call. For game balance rules I'd say it wouldn't but logically it would make sense that your worn armor would work first before the weapons hit you. You would be super man and the GM would start going after you with missles and sharks with lasers on their heads.
Herald of Verjigorm
Jul 27 2004, 03:42 AM
| QUOTE (mfb @ Jul 26 2004, 10:24 PM) |
| is there a reason you need to Invoke the city spirit for this to work? |
Yes, channeling does not take the benefits granted by the materialization power.
| QUOTE (Target: Awakened Lands @ page 110) |
| If the initiate channels a great form spirit (p. 107, MITS) he gains Immunity (Normal Weapons) at the spirit's Force in addition to its other powers. |
kevyn668
Jul 27 2004, 03:45 AM
[Homer voice]Mmmmm...sharks with lasers on thier heads....[/Homer voice]
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2004, 03:46 AM
When I'm GMing, I treat it as layering for purposes of determining the effect, with worn armor always being halved regardless of the spirit's Force, but otherwise ignoring the Quickness and Combat Pool penalties.
Example: You channel a Force 3 Great Form spirit while wearing an Armored Vest with Plates. Incoming ballistic attacks would be reduced by 2 and impact attacks would be reduced by 1 before the Immunity to Normal Weapons would apply.
That said, the rules never touch on this particular topic so it's always a house rule no matter what you come up with.
EDIT: Cut out the part explaining Channeling and Immunity since the Herald beat me to it.
Apathy
Jul 27 2004, 04:21 AM
| QUOTE |
| When I'm GMing, I treat it as layering for purposes of determining the effect, with worn armor always being halved regardless of the spirit's Force[...] |
So, a mage in security armor who for some stupid reason channels a force 1 great form would have their armor value go down?
Ol' Scratch
Jul 27 2004, 04:25 AM
Considering that I'd be the one GMing, it wouldn't be an issue because that just wouldn't happen. House rules are fun like that.
Zazen
Jul 27 2004, 05:26 AM
I apply the hardened aspect first, just like any other time someone mixes normal and hardened armor. If you apply the soft armor first, you inadvertently give it the properties of hardened armor, so that there is no more point in saying "3 soft, 6 hardened". The way it works would be identical to the way 9 hardened works.
Apathy
Jul 27 2004, 02:40 PM
| QUOTE |
| I apply the hardened aspect first, just like any other time someone mixes normal and hardened armor. If you apply the soft armor first, you inadvertently give it the properties of hardened armor, so that there is no more point in saying "3 soft, 6 hardened". The way it works would be identical to the way 9 hardened works. |
True.
I guess it boils down to: should it treat the whole thing as hardened armor?
The drain involved in channelling invoked spirits is pretty severe, so you're pretty limited in the level of spirit that you can use. It would be a pretty rare mage that could actually invoke and channel a high enough spirit to actually make him invulnerable, and even then he'd probably pass out or die 10 minutes later when his channelling ran out.
I'm at work and don't have the rules with me, but if I remember right:
- Have to resist normal drain for summoning.
- Have to resist drain for invoking as if the force of the spirit were doubled (though it's still stun not physical, if the first test was stun.
- You only channel for a something like 10 minutes per success in a conjuring test.
- When the channelling's over, you have to resist drain equal to twice the effective force of the spirit. I believe this means that if the spirit was a great form, that you'd be resisting four times the spirit's force. I think there's also a reference to comparing this effective force to the mage's magic rating (not charisma) to see if it's stun damage or physical.
If this is close to correct, then a level 2 initiate wouldn't be able to channel higher than a force 2 great form without risking Serious physical drain afterward. That's a lot to go through for just 4 points of armor and a bunch of spirit powers that are too low to actually have any impact.
I'm sure that I probably mixed some of that up. If anybody knows the Invoking+Channeling rules well, please correct me on the specifics.
Cirenya
Jul 31 2004, 08:05 PM
You'll have to resist:
1. The normal drain (force)
2. Invoking drain ((2*force) -initiation grade)
3. Not sure on this!! Channeling drain ((2*force)- initiation grade)
Ol' Scratch
Jul 31 2004, 08:25 PM
That's pretty much it. However, Channeling Drain doesn't take place until the Channeling has come to an end, and you get to use all of your Conjuring and any foci dice for the test (and likewise get to use them all for the Channeling Test) since they take place at different times.
But yeah, there's three distinct Drain Tests and two of them are twice the Force of the spirit minus your Grade. Note also that while the Drain Test for Invoking and Channeling are against double the Force of the spirit, you still use the spirit's Force to determine the severity (Drain Level). So if a normal Force 2 spirit only invokes Light Drain on you, a Great Form Force 2 spirit will also only cause Light Drain... the only difference is the Power will be higher.
Cirenya
Jul 31 2004, 08:39 PM
Neat little detail...
So a standard elven magian ( charisma 8)could relative easily conjure a force 4 spirit, invoke it and channel it, without reaching moderate.
Or with some powerboosting (charisma 10(bonus attribute and exceptinel attribute- depends on the GM) a force 5 spirit, which make you invulnerabel to most firearms, except sniper rifles...
Very neat, indeed...
Ol' Scratch
Jul 31 2004, 08:55 PM
Well, Channeling always requires a Deadly Drain Test regardless of Force, but otherwise yeah.
Luke Hardison
Jul 31 2004, 09:12 PM
| QUOTE (Apathy) |
| Ok, say your a combat mage initiate wearing FFBA3 (4/1) and an Armored Jacket (5/3). Your base armor is now 7/4. |
I don't know how I just now saw this ...
How is your base armor not now 9/4?
Ol' Scratch
Jul 31 2004, 09:16 PM
Form-Fitting Body Armor doesn't give you the penalties for layering, but it's still layered. Since it's Ballistic Rating is lower than that of the jacket, it gets halved to +2 and the Impact Rating is also halved to +0 for the same reason. So that would put it at 7/3.
Necro Tech
Jul 31 2004, 09:17 PM
When layering armor, you add half the next lowest (round down) armor values. 5/3 and layer 4/1 equals 5 + (4/2) = 7 and 3 + (1/2) = 3 for 7/3.
RedmondLarry
Aug 1 2004, 04:47 AM
| QUOTE (Apathy) |
| ... puts an arrow dead-center on your chest doing 14M. The arrow hits your Jacket and FFBA, which slow it down (reducing the power of the attack by 7 down to 7M) |
I run it that Impact Armor is used when resisting Bows, not Ballistic Armor.
BitBasher
Aug 1 2004, 08:12 AM
| QUOTE (OurTeam) |
| QUOTE (Apathy @ Jul 26 2004, 08:21 PM) | | ... puts an arrow dead-center on your chest doing 14M. The arrow hits your Jacket and FFBA, which slow it down (reducing the power of the attack by 7 down to 7M) |
I run it that Impact Armor is used when resisting Bows, not Ballistic Armor.
|
it is I believe
Glyph
Aug 2 2004, 03:30 AM
His house rule is that he runs it like they have it in the BBB.
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