What I basically wanted was a way to attach adept powers to a focus so that someone who bonds it can access those abilities as if they had the power. This is a very rough idea of how such a thing might work.

Ability Foci

Ability Foci are foci which "store" the powers of an adept into them. Like all foci, they have a force rating. An Ability Focus can "store" (Force/2) Power Points worth of Adept powers in them. (That is, a .5 PP ability would require a Force 1 Ability Focus).

The karma cost to bond an ability focus is (Force*4). The owner of the focus, once it is bonded, can use the powers stored in it as if he/she were an adept with that power, with all the same limitations.

Notes: The Improved Attribute Power costs .5 PP for the purposes of storing it in an Abiltiy Focus.

I'm still sketchy on how to make such a thing (i.e., the enchanting mechanics, how to "put" a power "into" it). Also, I'm aware that for some adept powers, this kind of thing may make Anchoring pointless. IMO, Anchoring is already pretty pointless, and I personally intend to houserule away as much of its lameness as I can, but that is a topic for another thread.

Actually anchoring is far from pointless, really. It has a lot of positive uses.

Yeah, but there's also a lot of idiocy (I'm thinking about drain, targeting, and the necessity of re-linking each time a spell is used) that keeps Anchoring from really shining in my eyes.

But again, a topic for another thread. Any thoughts on the new focus?

*activates focus*

"I know kung-fu....better."

For 1 karma and whatever object cost, a human mage can get natural thermographic and flare comp. A better deal than trying to quicken nightvision.

Bonding cost is 4*Force, so it'd be 4 karma.

EDIT: Also, consider that the nuyen cost for foci tends to be pretty damn steap. It's not something you can just brush off when comparing to quickening. Cost tends to scale with the power or usefulness of a focus, and I consider the possibile benefits of this type of focus to be in the same category as a weapon focus or a spell catagory focus. Look up the costs for those, it's definately not something that can be easily looked over.

I like the idea, but how do you "cast" the power on the Adept Focus?

A variant of this idea that would make sense to me would be, rather than granting wholly new powers, to have the thing simply enhance existing powers. In this way, you dont have to worry about how to add adept powers.

Such a focus would boost any one power by a number of virtual power points equal to F/2. So you cant suddenly gain improved reflexes, but a focus of this type could raise your improved reflexes from level 1 to level 2 if it was a force 2 focus, from level 2 to level 3 if it was a force 4 focus, or from level 1 to level 3 if it was a force 6 focus. The power to be enhanced is chosen when the focus is bonded, and can not be changed without rebonding the focus.

Im not sure how much I would make the thing cost in terms of either karma or money, but I kinda like it.

Another thing to consider, is what if an Adept decides to wear the Adept Focus?

Assuming you got the best deal for Intiations, Grade 6 (+6 Power Points) would cost you almost 100 Good Karma. I think they'd be getting a huge bonus for little Karma cost you have proposed initially of Force*4.

Maybe the multiplier would increase based on the number and rating of powers so something like 4*(Highest Force + # of Powers) or so.

Psst, Grinder, it's Force/2 for power points. A Force 6 is equivilent to only three grades.

But grades are an imperfect comparison. Not only due to the varying costs due to groups and ordeals, but the varying benefits and drawbacks (higher magic is a bad thing for Adepts).

I think the BBB's adept advancement of 20 karma per PP would be a better evaluator for balance since neither a focus or these power points affect the magic rating and there is a linear cost for improvement.

As such, the Focus effectively acts as a Talisman geasa. IMO that would qualify it for the 75% reduction to 15 Karma per power point. As one power point constitutes two points of force, we divide that in half. 7.5 karma per point.

Another point for balance considerations is the monitary cost of the focus. If a goodly amount, the karma cost per force should go down.

Last thing that pops into my mind as a point of contention for balance: who can use the focus? If anyone magically active can utilize the focus, then it should cost more then what an Adept has to pay, simply for the fact it is walking over Adepts' toes. But if limited to only Adepts, it should cost less karma investure to make it an attractive alternative.

Okay, one more thing, honest. Focus Addiction should be vigorously enforced with this item. This does two things, if normal mages can use them, it limits the amount of toe treading. And secondly, if it's made to be attractive to normal Adepts, prevents them from looking like Liberace both astrally and on the mundane plane of existance. And helps curb munchkins.

Also note that the adept is still limited to power ratings equal to their Magic attribute. While this might not be an issue with things like Killing Hands or Reflexes, it will make a difference for a lot of powers, such as Improved Abilities or Attributes.

this sounds familiar. i prefer the seperate Somatic and Ability foci.

Wow, lots of good points I totally missed. tjn summed up a lot of this best. I'm going to tweak the karma costs so that it doesn't become a replacement for "normal" power point gaining. And yes, the cost in nuyen is big. It's up there with weapon foci and specific spell category foci; somewhere near Force * 80,000 should be about right. These foci aren't minor purchases, in fact, I imagine these being more like very hard to obtain loot or something given as a reward.

Anyone magically active can bond these foci. However, cost and rarity make logic such as: "Hey, why bother with Path of the Magician? Just play a regular mage and buy an Ability Focus"" roughly equivalent to thinking: "Hey, why bother initiating? I'll just buy a Power Focus." And yes, Focus Addiction is a must.

jesus, anyone with magical ability can use these? uh, i don't like that at all. sorcerers who pick up a spirit focus can't summon spirits with it; no way should Joe Anymage be able to pick up a focus and get Killing Hands.

yes, of course they should. astral combat is an integral part of pretty much every magical tradition. anchoring has nothing at all to do with the person activating the focus, and everything to do with someone who already has sorcery as part of his/her purview. adept powers are unique and, more importantly, incredibly potent if the GM doesn't carefully monitor their use.

well, yes, it's true that it's up to the GM to moderate the game. if i post a Kill Suckers In One Hit focus, it wouldn't really be my fault if someone's game became unbalanced through the use of it. however, it'd be kinda pointless to post it here on Dumpshock if i didn't want people to be able to use it without breaking their game.

anchoring foci remain tied to the mage that created them--when you use an anchored spell, the mage it's tied to has to resist drain right then and there. if the anchoring mage dies, your anchoring focus is useless. your Ability Focus doesn't seem to be tied to the adept who created it. the anchoring focus, in other words, has some strongly-defined limits; the Ability Focus does not, and with adepts, a lack of limits is a bad thing.

Your focus is far too abusable in its current state. For ~48 good karma, which is admittedly not something to sneeze at, one could purchase 6 power points of various "Ability Foci" and effectively be an uninitiated adept, in addition to whatever other magical tradition they've chosen. Let's look at an example here, with a full magician, shaman, or wujen doing just what I've suggested above.

Since a magician adept would require 12 power points, or 6 Initiate Grades, to have both a full starting magician's magic rating/abilities and a full starting adept's magic rating/powers, which costs at the very least ~75 good karma(magical group plus ordeal), someone is saving 27 good karma, at the very least(most likely much more), and adopting all the abilities of an ostensibly seperate type of magical ability while doing so. To be less optimistic, if the initiations are unassisted and without ordeals, the cost is ~150 good karma, resulting in a net savings of an astounding 102 good karma.

(This is not mentioning the fact that they'd have started with far less spell points and would still be unable to astrally project, as they'd have metamagics which would most likely balance that downside. Let's not get into the nitty-gritty details of that and derail things.)

This means that 12 rating points of this focus, say a force 2 Killing Hands focus, a force 6 Improved Reflexes focus, a force 3 Pain Resistance focus, and a force 1 Improved Quickness focus(a fairly routine starting adept layout) are saving the user at least 27, at most 102, and an average of ~65 good karma. That averages to ~6 good karma per force point.

As a result, the cost and availability of such a focus should be astronomical(or there should only be one or two, low-rating, and unique foci rather than a codeified type), and that still doesn't really address the balance issue, since no matter how much something costs, someone will still get their hands on it.

I mean, if we went into the argument that it's not the rules creator's role to consider balance, because high costs/availability balance obscene power, why does move-by-wire, an insanely expensive piece of 'ware with commensurate increases in character ability, still have debilitating side-effects that no amount of cash-money can do away with?

Anyhow, that's my two cents. I like this "Wireknight" fellow's Somatic and Ability foci, myself. That man is a genius. If he weren't me, and such marriages weren't illegal, well... let's not talk about that anymore.

Wireknight? Those "nitty-gritty" details that derail the comparison between initiation and foci are a bit bigger then you make it out to be. The grand canyon and my cup of ramen next to me can be compared if one glosses over enough "nitty-gritty" details.

Fundamentally, increases in grade have a exponential cost unlike increases in foci, which have a linear cost. That detail alone makes the comparison invalid. In addition the initiations of an Adept of the Magician's Way are inheriantly borked, which precludes them from being set as any standard of balance in the first place.

While yes it's a bit karmicly light atm to allow any mage to bond, the costs nuyen-wise that GunnerJ's put forth would put it into the realm of either forcing the character to sell his soul in character creation and severally gimp himself to become a crappy Adept of the Magician's Path who can project, or squarely into a high power campaign in which the GM is already balancing high power levels.

Double the karma cost to 8 per force, and it's about bang on. One need not demand a player's first born for what would amount to be a simple trinket in all but a munchkin's hand. Magic characters already are karmic black holes, so adding yet another option for them to spend their precious, precious, karma is inheirantly balanced against all of their other karmic demands, so long as the GM isn't Monty Haul.

Another way to limit the availability of the item might be require the link between the adept and the focus (as above). This link could be used for ritual sorcery, tracking, etc. which is going to make such items rare as not many adepts with the ability to make them would be willing to leave a trace of themselves out there for all to have. Would initiating and changing your astral signature invalidate these ritual links?

I would say the enchanting process could also be an adept-only metamagic if you want to. This would further limit characters from creating such foci and trying to sell them for cash. Granted, if they do, the astral link between the focus and themselves is certainly something a savvy GM can use to their disadvantage .

The reason I think a metamagic would apply is this: since normal enchanting requires a mage to cast a spell "into" a focus, an adept probably couldn't follow the normal echanting process because their Somatic way focuses magic internally rather than externally. Therefore, the metamagic would be something that an Adept could learn that would allow that external projection of their powers. Call it Aural Expansion or something like that. Then, the process is simply to have the "unpowered" focus on the adepts person for a base amout of time (divided by successes on an enchanting test) and the metamagic would allow the adept to place their powers into the focus.

Also, while this may have been implied above, an adept should only be able to charge such a focus with powers they have. Maybe an astral quest could provide they the ability to charge a focus with a different power or a ritual enchanting process of other adepts could act similarly.

[derail]

okay. the nitty-gritty of this argument is that you're giving out free adept powers to anybody with money, which basically makes the adept archtype useless except for creating foci. no amount of money or karma should allow someone who isn't an adept to pick up the full abilities of an adept. if i put a Conjuring focus on here, that allows any magically-active character to summon spirits as if he were a follower of the same path as the creator of the focus, i'd get laughed off the boards. this focus is simply unfair to adepts--if it existed in the game, there wouldn't be any good reason to play an adept beyond the RP aspect. why waste your magical abilities on adept powers, when you can just throw down some cash and bring home a bagfull of them?

Apart from the discussion about cost and who should be able to use the proposed focus type (I'm strongly for restricting it to adepts only), I have my problems somewhere else:

The idea obviously is not only to potentially increase already known powers, but also to provide new powers. And that doesn't quite go along with the rest of the foci: All foci (even the anchoring focus) only increase or replicate an ability the magician who has bonded it already possesses. Now such an adept focus would provide something totally new ... not too consistant, which leads right to the follow up problem (which could be solved, but would impose further requirements):

How is an adept supposed to determine / link a power to that focus that he himself does not possess during the time of enchantment and / or bonding?
There should be someone involved in the creation of such a focus who actually knows the power(s) in question.

Cochise hit the button here.

The Adept Focus (as described) does things that no other (non-unique) focus in the game does. It grants new abilities. The closest you can get to this is an Anchoring focus, which has severe limitations, or possibly a magical tattoo, which also suffers limitations.

Otherwise, the only way to find something similar in canon-material (excluding SoE, MJLBB and SOTA:64, since I haven't got any of them) is to turn to the unique foci possessed by such characters as Teachdaire and Dominic O'Brien (If I recall the name correctly) - see Prime Runners and Celtic Double Cross respectively, or visit Ancient History's site.

Wireknight's Ability Focus seems much more sensible to me, and works along the same lines. I think it is abit limiting in that it only boosts a pre-set power, but I think the Somatic focus is partly broken. I dislike the mechanic that uses half the force of the focus. This is unlike any existing rule. Instead I suggest increasing BOTH Magic and Power Points by the focus' force, and increase the bonding cost instead.

mfb- by definition, anything you need to give money for is not free, so there is no sensible way to claim that Ability Foci give "free" adept powers. And there's also karma. As to the "why would anyone play an adept," have you read anything I or tjn have written? This exact argument has been dealt with and trounced.

Others: I fail to see how uniqueness is a mark against this idea. I'm looking at you treating the point that these foci do something unique like it's the smoking gun and I'm scratching my head. So what?

It's happened too many times on this board where I try to look for feedback and end up fighting some vague battle. This isn't a scolding to everyone here, because a lot of it is my fault as much as anyone elses. What I want to do with these "idea threads" I post is bring a desire or intention in line with a mechanical reality. I don't want to be arguing for the sake of arguing. I have already gotten some good points here (make sure the karmic and monetary costs prohibit this from replacing adepts, find some way to bond the adept sealing the powers in the focus and the focus itself, no matter who uses it). Maybe it would be helpful if I outlined my intention.

What I want are magic goodies, esentially. I want, to use a crude analogy, something which works sort of like the relics from FF6, or the One Ring, or the many permutations on the magic sword that grant special abilities because of their enchantment to the person weilding it. The trouble is, the only thing SR has for this is Anchoring, which while neat for making things like sniper-protection or magic grenades, blows hard for my purposes. Imagine trying to make a medalion that protects against hostile spells with Anchoring. You could put a Spell Shield spell in it, as long as you were cool with using it once before having to ask the mage you got it from to re-cast the spell into it, but at that point you may as well just hire the guy to cast it on you and sustain whenever you need it.

But if you had a medalion with the something like Magic Resistance power...

This was the intention, things which are essentially, as tjn put it, gimmicks. They're useful for a few specific things, but they were never intended to "replace" adepts, nor can they really without gimping your attention to other magic skills (you'd be, again as tjn put it, a crappy Magician's Way adept who can project.) You can't go out and search for specific powers (at least not easily), but you may go into a talismonger's place and find some sort of Jump Boots that allow you to leap higher (has Great Leap in it) or a Cloak of Shadows that lets you sneak up on people easier (has Improved Stealth). This was the vision, to give SR this type of magical trinket or artifact where previously there was a hole half-filled by bulldrek like Anchoring.

The thing is, we can't make foci for adept-type abilities that work just like other foci. Consider, for example, the "half force thing." This makes perfect sense for adepts because you actually can have half power points. Or consider the fact that this grants new abilties instead of just improving existing ones. Other foci use units that directly correspond to the units of the abilities they enhance: Force. But adept powers don't have "Force." Some are improvable, but a "Force 3" Improved Stealth isn't the "same" as "Force 3" Improved Pistols. And you can't have any "Force" of an ability like Quickdraw, you either have it or you don't.

I'm not trying to replace adepts, nor do I think this focus type can do that. I'm just trying to find a path to the stuff I want that can be shielded from abuse.

Magical Gear

The above link will show you how I attempted to overcome the whole "magic sword" thing. Basically, imps inhabiting a focus, free ally spirits inhabiting a homonculus that is also some sort of wearable or carryable object, and the like are the only real way I can see to achieve what you're talking about within the rules. The spells they could cast, and paranormal/spirit powers they could employ, can be used to add effects that are beyond the scope of normal foci.

The problem, of course, is that they are more than just foci. They are sentient magical beings. Of course, with masking, there's no reason the character who possesses them need ever know that.

Essentially nothing. Just like you could say that your character initiatated and used a talisman geas of boots to use with great leap. However, if you're goal is to introduce artifacts of magic into Shadowrun, then I think GunnerJ's on the right track. I for one like the idea. I agree with others -- it should be a tool for adepts only -- or perhaps the Aleph Society .

the adept powers are "free" because you didn't have to pick them up at chargen. like i said, it'd be like allowing non-conjurors to conjure freely through the use of a focus. i've read the arguments about replacing adepts, and i disagree--with your ability focus, it would be incredibly easy to become a badass mage/adept that trumps the everliving jesus out of magician's path adepts. the feedback i've been giving you isn't vague at all, but i'll try to be clearer: giving non-adepts access to adept powers through the use of a new focus type is a bad idea.

look, if you want a magical gewgaw that grants adept powers, just make it a unique enchantment and leave it at that. if this were a one-shot deal, i'd be fine with it--one single mage who gains Traceless Walk and Improved Ability: Stealth 4 because he dumped 20-something karma into a unique enchantment, that's cool. allowing any mage who wants those powers to buy a focus for it, that's not cool.

I've seen people trying to give Adepts the same benefits as cyberware (Smartlink power, etc.), but never the other way around. Just pick an archetype and live with that archetype's limitations. Want to fling spells and summon fire elementals? MAGE. Want to have a Smartlink-II and 5d6 initiative? STREET SAM. Want to do both? TOUGH SHIT. You made your choice.

[EDIT] Upon further reflection, you CAN have a mage with SL-II and 5D6, but he'd be geased out the ass or have a crappy magic rating. But you all get my point.

MiTS pg. 46. Unique Enchantments.

Granted, it doesn't contain any strict, easy-to-follow rules for making them. That's why they're called unique. Honestly, I'd just go this route for your 'gimmicks' as you say. No two are ever the same, they can range from very low power to very high power.
How to create them is only ever interesting if a PC attempts it, and when one does there are guidelines in MiTS to go by. I'd say 20-60 days deign time for most of them (although the best is just to have them seek out an existing formula - send 'em on an interesting run somewhere). Force of the focus? Well, that varies greatly depending on what you want. GM's call. Second, always require at least one exotic material in a unique focus. Preferraby more than one, especially for powerful foci.
Enchanting Table. 6 is probably a pretty good TN for most mid-level unique formulas. Then again, they're unique. Make it an 8, or maybe a 10, or why not a 5?
Does the focus grant multiple powers/effect? Then it's a stacked focus.
First Bonding? Surprise the character. Pick something sensible, like three more karma than the character curretnly has (Make a point of asking. 'How much for first bonding? Well, how much karma does your character have? (peek at character sheet, to make sure) Ten? Nope, sorry - you need three more. Players love that. )

Samples of Unique foci (with stats) in canon, and roughly what they do:


Basically, if you want a focus that does something similar to a critter power or a spell, or one who only gives bonus dice for one specific use, unique foci can do it. If it's similar to a normal focus, design it based on that - modifying for it's special abilities.

Hell, I didn't even know about that. Still, I want to develop this idea further. I'll look more into Unique Enchantments, though.

BTW, something popped into my head while I was thinking about whether or not ability foci can "replace" adepts: how easy is it to take away an adept power? Like, to prevent an adept from using one of the powers he/she knows? Is it easier or harder than destroying ot stealing a focus?

That really, REALLY depends on the adept and the power. That's very VERY variable.