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FXcalibur
I'm not sure, but someone posted a way to go full borg here somewhere in the past IIRC, involving extracting your brain and spine and implanting it into a full metal body. Is it possible to do this? I just got rigger 3 and I'm curious.
mfb
with betaware and positive essence options, you can get all-cyber limbs, torso, skull, wired-3, reaction enh-6, a smartlink, eyes, and ears. who needs vehicles?
SunRunner
Well, by the book you can do the following:

CODE
Obvious Cybernetic Replacements:
2 Full Arms
2 Full Legs
Torso
Skull
DNI Link (<< CyberSkull)

Total Essence Used by Grade:
Standard -- 6.35
Alpha -- 5.08
Beta -- 3.81
Delta -- 3.175

So ... a full body transplant would use the following stats:

CODE
Full Body Replacement
Essence: 6.35
ECU: 68.75
Cost: 429,500 :nuyen:
Concealability: --
Availability: 6/6 Days
Street Index: 1
Legality:  Legal
mybrainhurts
Thats not quite full borg, as theres still quite a lot of squishy stuff still in your torso.
Also, cyberskulls do't include ears or eyes, which are rather nessecary.
Azrael
Raises an interesting point though - when you get a cyberskull/torso etc, do they get the ice cream scoop out with your inards or build the cyber bit in pieces in place?
Lantzer
Build in place, I would think. The cyber-torso and skull aren't cyber-replacement like the limbs are. They are more reinforcement to what already is there. Think of those two as a structural upgrade, rather than a replacement. You could even keep your original eyes and ears, etc.

So any shadowrun "full borg' is a lot more meaty than anything in CP2020 or RoboCop.

You couldn't do a CP full borg conversion in SRun without serious cybermancy. (Mmmm... Cyber-zombie Dragoons... Mmmm).
hyzmarca
I beieve that http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/GoBorg.html is what you are looking for.

The basic idea is to use a VCR as an interface between the metahuman brain and a fully reobtic body, thus elemination the need for direct connections and, by extention, eleminating most of the essence cost. The downside is that the cyborg body counts as a rigged vehicle for all forms of magic. No magic resistance test and a magicial with this conversion will never have Line of Sight to anything although, Astral perception may still work.
Thistledown
My group and I ruled that cybertorso is just the shell, and all the innards are still inside. We came up with a separate thing for the innards.

Internal_Organs_Kit(D)

Costs the same as a cyberlimb. Replaces circulatory, respiratory, digestive, and other bodily functions of the torso with cybernetic parts. Also grants a clean metabolism.
Botch
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
downside is that the cyborg body counts as a rigged vehicle for all forms of magic. No magic resistance test and a magicial with this conversion will never have Line of Sight to anything although.

Unless its an anthroform body, meta-human brain and cybereyes.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Botch)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Aug 26 2004, 03:10 PM)
downside is that the cyborg body counts as a rigged vehicle for all forms of magic. No magic resistance test and a magicial with this conversion will never have Line of Sight to anything although.

Unless its an anthroform body, meta-human brain and cybereyes.

That's true, but it means that you'll be stuck in the same body unless you have someone with both Biotech and Drone B/R skills to help you. This defeats one of the major purposes of the biopod, the ability to clock 9-5 as a multi-ton- HMGs-and-SAMs mounted in-every-orafice Death Machine then go home and relax in your can't-tell -the-differance-if-you-have-sex-with-it realistic anthroform body.
Bigity
But why bother with the physical act of sex when you can just tune into a special channel with your brain?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Bigity)
But why bother with the physical act of sex when you can just tune into a special channel with your brain?

Because its more fun, of course. Its also a good way to get information. Seduction is the most classic of all espionage techniques.

The multi-ton death machine can't seduce. It can't have any normal social interaction at all. It can't even fi tthrough most doos. But, it does have its uses. The ability to switch between a perfect body specificly designed to be attractive and a heavily armored combat body gives the best of both worlds. The fact that the biopoded Face can have a social body of any gender and race combonation makes it even more versitle. If you want to infiltrate the Orc Underground, all you need to do is get an Orc anthroform.
Rev
You can do a full cyberbody, ears, eyes, and a bit of actually usefull stuff for just under nuyen.gif 1 million with a couple peices of alpha, a peg leg, and a hook hand in a by the book starting charachter.

Can turn into a not-completely-awful techie type charachter in the build point system with edges and flaws (whee lower racial maximums to 1 for all physical attributes!).

That "extracting your brain" stuff is all house rules though.
Siege
What's the essence loss for having your brain and nervous system dropped into a jar?

More or less than existing cyber-zombies?

-Siege

hyzmarca
QUOTE (Siege)
What's the essence loss for having your brain and nervous system dropped into a jar?

More or less than existing cyber-zombies?

-Siege

There's no essence loss for amputation. So long as no organs are replaced with cyberware the essence loss should be minimal.
The house rules I linked to state .25 for a necessary biomoniter.
Siege
It was meant primarily as a rhetorical question - but for the brain pod to work, you need a biological support unit, some manner of interface between the pod and the outside world, even if it's just an industrial-strength datajack and some sort regulation system to maintain the brain during periods of being unplugged from external sensor systems.

I understand that amputation carries no essence loss, but removing the brain and nervous system from the organic host and integrating it into an artificial support system is not quite the same thing.

-Siege
skipprjoe
that's just crazy, one's essence is their spirit's recognition of their physical body; when your essence hits 0.0 then your spirit no longer recognizes your body and goes on to the spiritworld, leaving your body behind as it thinks it is dead unless cybermancy is employed..thinking you can just get rid of your body completely (except brain and spinal cord) and not lose hardly any essence is seriously backwards. in truth you would not lose .25 essence, you would have about that much left!
Cochise
QUOTE (skipprjoe)
that's just crazy, one's essence is their spirit's recognition of their physical body; when your essence hits 0.0 then your spirit no longer recognizes your body and goes on to the spiritworld, leaving your body behind as it thinks it is dead unless cybermancy is employed..thinking you can just get rid of your body completely (except brain and spinal cord) and not lose hardly any essence is seriously backwards.  in truth you would not lose .25 essence, you would have about that much left!

Rulewise it's different however ... You simply don't loose Essence when you loose a limb (or more). The only impact on essence occurs once you make some unnatural additions that are directly "linked" to the rest of your body (not just neurally despite of the description in M&M) => Yes, you could remove the brain and spinal cord and put into a nutrition tank and only loose Essence for a datajack ...

That's pretty much how a certain person called Roxborough ended up ...
BitBasher
Er, essence is rediced for replacement systems, like cybereyes. In this case EVERYTHING would be a replacement system, meaning an ainsane amount of essence spent.

Roxborough still had a functioning body kept alive with technological assistance.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (BitBasher)
Er, essence is rediced for replacement systems, like cybereyes. In this case EVERYTHING would be a replacement system, meaning an ainsane amount of essence spent.

Roxborough still had a functioning body kept alive with technological assistance.

But, the anthroform drone isn't a replacement, it is a vehicle.Just walking in it requires a anthroform vehicle skill and it is subject to rigging rules.
Sayng that it requires essence is like saying that a blind, dead, mute, and quadrapaligic rigger with a body of 1 should have to pay essence to directly jack into a giant anthroform robot. The brain in a pod is little more than a blind/deaf/mute/quadraplagic rigger qith a body of 1. The only difference is that it's smaller, so it can fit into a human-sized drone.
snowRaven
Dr.Halberstam's brain-in-a-box kids didn't have a body. They were just brains in a tank.

There's no mention of their essence, though, but it is obviously possible to disconnect a brain in that manner. They 'just' needed to recharge every 72 hours - disconnect for a few hours for diagnostics. They were very vulnerable to damage, however.
In matrix terms:
[ Spoiler ]

Not sure how to handle that when the brain is plugged into a drone, but I'd assume that feedback has a similar effect. Not unreasonable, IMO - after all, without a functioning body to protect it and nurture it, the brain is fairly vulnerable.
Cain
Using used alphaware, it's entirely possibel for a starting character to begin play as a full borg. The Shadowrun cyberlimb rules do gimp that idea severely, though.
BitBasher
Not really cain, as the torso and skull are not cyber replacements, they are reinforcing the existing skull and torso. There's still a significant amount of meat.

There is no way legally by canon to do a full replacement like that.
Birdy
QUOTE (Lantzer)
Build in place, I would think. The cyber-torso and skull aren't cyber-replacement like the limbs are. They are more reinforcement to what already is there. Think of those two as a structural upgrade, rather than a replacement. You could even keep your original eyes and ears, etc.

So any shadowrun "full borg' is a lot more meaty than anything in CP2020 or RoboCop.

You couldn't do a CP full borg conversion in SRun without serious cybermancy. (Mmmm... Cyber-zombie Dragoons... Mmmm).

Actually Robocop (at least the original movie version) still was quite "organic". I.e he still needed to eat, had his original face, one eye and most of the head etc. Guess he was close to the SR possible version.


Birdy
Siege
In SR terms, Murphy would have been a cyber-zombie.

The crazed drug dealer turned mobile weapons platform in "Robocop 2" is an example of a brainpod.

-Siege
Birdy
QUOTE (Siege)
In SR terms, Murphy would have been a cyber-zombie.

The crazed drug dealer turned mobile weapons platform in "Robocop 2" is an example of a brainpod.

-Siege

Actually not even a Cyberzombie. Using Alphaware it's a close call but Betaware should be able to do "Murphy" (The Peter Weller Version)

All he had is:

Pair of obviouse Cyberarms
Pair of obviouse Cyberlegs
Obvious Cybertorso
Obvious Cyberskull
Strength Enhancements


Datajack (The "Dataspike")
Cybereyes with [Actually only 1]
Thermo
Opticam
Image Link

Cyberears with
Recorder

Smartlink
Cyberholster
Biomonitor
Some Memory

One could debate a tactical computer (The trick-shot scene) but I make this a Smartlink-II

Birdy

Faster_Pussycat
Cyborg or Brainpod.

Okay lets say that SR got all the gear for the implant, but how on earth will the subject survive this transplant ?, its hard enough for a Cyberzombie to stay alive and sane.

Nope I think that cyborgs and Brainpods are reserved for the evil gamemaster to enjoy, and as we all know a gamemaster dont have to follow the rules or even care, as long at it make sense in the game..
toturi
If the GM begins to break the rules, then things will not make sense in the game. Breaking such rules is like have the SOTA beyond SOTA edge, are you playing shadowrun or star trek?
Siege
Add a biomonitor and transmitter, but ok - I'll give ya that one Birdy.

What is the damage code for a dataspike? Now all my sams want one...grinbig.gif

-Siege
BitBasher
QUOTE (Birdy @ Aug 27 2004, 12:09 PM)
QUOTE (Siege @ Aug 27 2004, 11:54 AM)
In SR terms, Murphy would have been a cyber-zombie.

The crazed drug dealer turned mobile weapons platform in "Robocop 2" is an example of a brainpod.

-Siege

Actually not even a Cyberzombie. Using Alphaware it's a close call but Betaware should be able to do "Murphy" (The Peter Weller Version)

All he had is:

Pair of obviouse Cyberarms
Pair of obviouse Cyberlegs
Obvious Cybertorso
Obvious Cyberskull
Strength Enhancements


Datajack (The "Dataspike")
Cybereyes with [Actually only 1]
Thermo
Opticam
Image Link

Cyberears with
Recorder

Smartlink
Cyberholster
Biomonitor
Some Memory

One could debate a tactical computer (The trick-shot scene) but I make this a Smartlink-II

Birdy

Actually that's not right, murphy had a lot more cyber. Get ready for a real geek thing gere, I read the book Robocop which went into somewhat more detail.

His cyber would have been:

Arms x2 (W/ str enhancement)
Legs x2 (w/one cyber holster w/DNI and str enhancement)
Torso
Skull
Ears x2 (ears were replaced)
--Select Sound Filter
--Hearing Amp
--Recorder
--Voice stress analyzer (not in book)
Eyes (NOT cyber replacement, those are his original eyes. inside there was:)
--Electronic zoom
--Recorder
--Thermo
--Low Light
--Image link
Tactical Computer (heavy essence here)
Smartlink
Datajack (The dataspike, which in the book wasn't a weapon, it ended different)
Headware Memory (unspecified amount)
Biomonitor
Math SPU (Ballistic SPU)

That's all I remember right off.

Incidentally that's NOT his real jaw. They made the conscious decision to make him look human, and reconstructed Murpohy's jaw (and most of his head) out of kevlar laminated titanium bones then overlaying skin over it. Shooting his jaw would have done jack. When he said "they build me to honor him" he was actually telling the truth.

Those are also his real eyes, it went out of the way to say that, all the implants were put in his meat eyes. I'm out to lunch on reflex enhancements but I don't think he had any, but in SR he'd need it.

he definitely had a tactical computer. In the warehouse he was prelocking his targets before he actually started shooting. It was stated in the book he also had a dedicated ballistics processor to boot.

He's pretty much a zombie. he even had the flashbacks ect...
Rev
Wouldn't he also have a ton of armor in all cyberlimbs? Actually a completely impossibly amount by SR rules.
Siege
Eh. He was the showcase of OCP's new program, which means he probably got access to stuff like Hardened Military Armor bolted to his cyber limbs.

As for the reflex boost - Murph wasn't fast, but as an armored tank, he didn't really need to be.

-Siege
BitBasher
yeah, by definition Murphy was pretty much all delta grade. The cyber was built for him and him alone, that's pretty much the definition of it.
snowRaven
Yeah - you have to take into consideration that everything about him was basicaly experimental cyber. He can't be recreated with off-the-shelf shadowrun cyber.
Siege
Although, we could probably have a good go at it. grinbig.gif

Include a drone brain so while the human trapped inside goes insane, we keep his biologicals functioning and controlled via radio/drone options.

-Siege
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