In MITS there is a Path of the Magician where an Adept at creation spends Power points to aquire magical abilities as a Hermetic or Shamanistic Magician.
My question is based on that rule on Pg 22 of MITS. They can't access Astral Projection unless purchased as an Adept power nor can they pay 20 Karma to get more Power points. Can anyone sugest a potential way for a Full Magician to purchase into Adept powers following a similar concept after character creation?
This is in regards to my character suddenly turning into a Drake and I want to give him a little physical focus on the Drake Form as apposed to the Magical nature of my metahuman form.
Several ideas I have is that the Adept powers could only be accessible in Drake Form or that I could simply go with Initiation buying me a Power Point like Adepts normally do it...but this completely breaks the Path of the Magician and provides my way as more advantageous which is bad because I DO Astrally Project already.
This could have worked if I had known I was going to be a Drake before hand, but I didn't so I couldn't start on the Path of the Magician....now can someone help me develope a Path of the Adept? ^_^
Full Version: Magician's aquiring Adept power points?
If I understand correctly, you want a Mage to buy Adept powers. Well, according to the rules, you can't. Anything aside from that, you'll have to work out with your GM.
Figured...you'd think they would have put something out there for the eventuality. Thanks.
Magicians way adepts can't buy astral projection, and need to buy astral perception to use it unless dual natured.
IIRC, drakes are already dual natured, so you don't need to buy astral perception.
The 20 karma for a power point is overruled by the initiation rules, also in MitS.
What, exactly, are you trying to do that you don't think you can?
IIRC, drakes are already dual natured, so you don't need to buy astral perception.
The 20 karma for a power point is overruled by the initiation rules, also in MitS.
What, exactly, are you trying to do that you don't think you can?
Based on the Magicians Way for Adepts I don't see a proper conversion to providing an already Shadowrunning Full Magician, PhysAdept Powers after the fact.
Magicans Way Adepts can't under any circumstances purchase Astral Projection?
I am trying to find any means possible to giving a Full Magician, PhysAdept powers after character generation.
Magicans Way Adepts can't under any circumstances purchase Astral Projection?
I am trying to find any means possible to giving a Full Magician, PhysAdept powers after character generation.
You can't, period.
Magic is a matter of birth - you're born (created) as one of the following:
By canon, you cannot acquire magical powers in mid-game. You could buy magical powers at creation and have them "manifest" during the story, if you wanted to simulate a PC suddenly Awakening.
-Siege
Magic is a matter of birth - you're born (created) as one of the following:
- Physical Adept
- Hermetic Mage
- Shaman
- Aspected mage/shaman
- Magician Way Adept (Physical Mage)
By canon, you cannot acquire magical powers in mid-game. You could buy magical powers at creation and have them "manifest" during the story, if you wanted to simulate a PC suddenly Awakening.
-Siege
Well, if you limit it to Drake form only, you might convince your GM that they amount to Innate paracritter powers. I don't think it's unreasonable to say 20 Karma per Adept Power point. However, as a GM I would rule these are feral, instinctual powers that supersede Magical abilities (meaning I wouldn't let you cast spells in Drake form).
Magical Adepts cannot Astrally Project without an Astral Rift or Portal.
Magical Adepts cannot Astrally Project without an Astral Rift or Portal.
Not only Drake magican Adepts get Astral Perception by their Dual Nature, Shapeshifters and Ghouls do the same. But Drake Magican Adepts are the only ones that can use Astral Projection like full Magicans (as PC's), Shapeshifters and Ghouls can do so only as NPC's (p.5 Critters)
Nemo can you site from what pages you read that Drakes can Astral Project as Adepts?
Was it in the critters book?
Was it in the critters book?
Espiritu: Check out my Submission to TSS. It gives my alternative Build Point system. Probably a little late to use now, but you can do a Path of the Adept through it rather easily.
Sphynx
Sphynx
@Espiritu
On Page 5 of the Critters is stated that a Dual-natured being with Magical Skills is able of Astral Projection. A Drake in Drake-form is Dual-natured, and if he is a magican Adept (or any other form of not full magican) he qualify for that (as a NPC, PC's are no Critters), and in Dot6W or Threats 2 it is said that any magical active Drake can astrally project in either Form (Human and Drake)
On Page 5 of the Critters is stated that a Dual-natured being with Magical Skills is able of Astral Projection. A Drake in Drake-form is Dual-natured, and if he is a magican Adept (or any other form of not full magican) he qualify for that (as a NPC, PC's are no Critters), and in Dot6W or Threats 2 it is said that any magical active Drake can astrally project in either Form (Human and Drake)
Your ideas intrigue me. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
You're gonna need to give us a page number on that last bit, I think.
Man, if this works, how could I have missed it?
You're gonna need to give us a page number on that last bit, I think.
Man, if this works, how could I have missed it?
| QUOTE |
| Espiritu: Check out my Submission to TSS. It gives my alternative Build Point system. Probably a little late to use now, but you can do a Path of the Adept through it rather easily. |
Can someone take a string of text out of that forum he linked to and post it for me here? So I can Google it and find the "cached" part of the forum entry.
My work blocks some sites as "games".
Thanks! That or I wait until I get home.
Yea I looked into the critters book. Seems sorta vague as to what magical potential consitutes...
Here you go:
[ Spoiler ]
That is a wicked design for Building Points, but it didn't really provide any answers to my question. I need a way to have a Magician become Mage Adept without retarding the Magicians previous skills.
You have several logic loops in the system. Like Adept power point costs and Astral Perception. Once you've bought up to your Magic level in Power points they cost 4...well it's cheaper at that point to buy Magic Ability(5) then Astral Perception(2) for 7 total then to buy two Power points past 6 for 4BP each totally 8...they save BP1 with some progressive engineering.
You have several logic loops in the system. Like Adept power point costs and Astral Perception. Once you've bought up to your Magic level in Power points they cost 4...well it's cheaper at that point to buy Magic Ability(5) then Astral Perception(2) for 7 total then to buy two Power points past 6 for 4BP each totally 8...they save BP1 with some progressive engineering.
| QUOTE (Espiritu) |
| That is a wicked design for Building Points, but it didn't really provide any answers to my question. I need a way to have a Magician become Mage Adept without retarding the Magicians previous skills. |
Try the house-foci that carry adept powers, there's a thread about them somewhere around here.
| QUOTE (Espiritu) |
| That is a wicked design for Building Points, but it didn't really provide any answers to my question. I need a way to have a Magician become Mage Adept without retarding the Magicians previous skills. You have several logic loops in the system. Like Adept power point costs and Astral Perception. Once you've bought up to your Magic level in Power points they cost 4...well it's cheaper at that point to buy Magic Ability(5) then Astral Perception(2) for 7 total then to buy two Power points past 6 for 4BP each totally 8...they save BP1 with some progressive engineering. |
There are NO canon rules to do that, so either you use house rules, or it's illegal. That is all.
@Espiritu
The Proof of the Drake Magician Adepts ability to astrally project are:
Dot6W p.184, Section "Metahuman Form", second paragraph, third sentence
" Drakes with magical skills can also astrally project like magicians in either humanoid or dragon form."
also
Same page, Section "Drake Abilities", first sentence
"As awakened creatures, drakes have certain innate magical abilities, which generally work as given in Shadowrun, Third Edition and Critters."
Same page, Section "Metahuman Form", second paragraph, first sentence
"Drakes in dracoform are dual beings,..."
Critters, p.5, Section "Dual Beings", third paragraph, first and second sentence
"Dual beings with magical skills are capable of astral projection. They can separate their astral bodies, just as do full magicians."
Dot6W p.184, Section "Magical Skills", first paragraph, last sentence
"Drakes with the ability to astrally project can do so in either form."
Threats 2 p.80, Section "Drake Abilities",fourth paragraph, last sentence
"Drakes with the ability to astrally project can do so in either form."
Conclusion: Magician Adepts posses magical abilities, so a Drake Magician Adept posses the ability of astral projection, in either humanoid and dragon form.
The Proof of the Drake Magician Adepts ability to astrally project are:
Dot6W p.184, Section "Metahuman Form", second paragraph, third sentence
" Drakes with magical skills can also astrally project like magicians in either humanoid or dragon form."
also
Same page, Section "Drake Abilities", first sentence
"As awakened creatures, drakes have certain innate magical abilities, which generally work as given in Shadowrun, Third Edition and Critters."
Same page, Section "Metahuman Form", second paragraph, first sentence
"Drakes in dracoform are dual beings,..."
Critters, p.5, Section "Dual Beings", third paragraph, first and second sentence
"Dual beings with magical skills are capable of astral projection. They can separate their astral bodies, just as do full magicians."
Dot6W p.184, Section "Magical Skills", first paragraph, last sentence
"Drakes with the ability to astrally project can do so in either form."
Threats 2 p.80, Section "Drake Abilities",fourth paragraph, last sentence
"Drakes with the ability to astrally project can do so in either form."
Conclusion: Magician Adepts posses magical abilities, so a Drake Magician Adept posses the ability of astral projection, in either humanoid and dragon form.
Nice work, Nemo. Well researched and well pesented.
Yes I agree. He PM'ed me but I'll say it again here.
Thanks Nemo, that aided several decisions I was trying to make. And essentially made it easier to decid to "convert" my magical presense as MageAdept. Since by Drake rules I was always a drake and always able to astrally project because of it and by the Path of the Wheel with Mage Adepts I could simply not have purchased any Adept power points yet. And since I'm not initiated yet I havn't broken any rules but those percieved in the background and on my character sheet.
All hail Nemo master of the See (I told you so)!
^_^ Peace.
Thanks Nemo, that aided several decisions I was trying to make. And essentially made it easier to decid to "convert" my magical presense as MageAdept. Since by Drake rules I was always a drake and always able to astrally project because of it and by the Path of the Wheel with Mage Adepts I could simply not have purchased any Adept power points yet. And since I'm not initiated yet I havn't broken any rules but those percieved in the background and on my character sheet.
All hail Nemo master of the See (I told you so)!
^_^ Peace.
Great work, Nemo. If only we could all post like that.
Of course, then we couldn't argue about we-don't-even-know-what for pages on end, and what fun would that be?
Of course, then we couldn't argue about we-don't-even-know-what for pages on end, and what fun would that be?
that also goes for adepts with Centering. huzzah!
@ OurTeam, Moon-Hawk,Espiritu
Thanks
@mfb
Give the Adept Sorcery (only if he has Astral Perception, but that is for Dual beings no problem), than it is without any question. But be aware, that these is only possible for PC-Drakes and NPC-Dual-beings, not for PC-Shapeshifters and PC-Ghouls. The SR-Compendium Third Edition stats for these two, that they can only astrally Project, if they are full magicians.
I'm at work, so I have no access to the books and can't quote.
Edit:
After Rereading the Rules: Only Shapeshifters are the exception of the Rule.
Thanks
@mfb
Give the Adept Sorcery (only if he has Astral Perception, but that is for Dual beings no problem), than it is without any question. But be aware, that these is only possible for PC-Drakes and NPC-Dual-beings, not for PC-Shapeshifters and PC-Ghouls. The SR-Compendium Third Edition stats for these two, that they can only astrally Project, if they are full magicians.
I'm at work, so I have no access to the books and can't quote.
Edit:
After Rereading the Rules: Only Shapeshifters are the exception of the Rule.
In one of the custom metamagic rules systems I've seen, magicians with certain very high prerequisites can learn the metamagic "adeptness", which grants them 1 point of adept powers. They can gain up to 6 points through this, require at least 10 initiate grades to purchase the power, and must have some other fairly high prerequisites.
On the other hand, adeptness may be purchased by an adept who has suffered magic loss due to cyberware, bioware, damage, etc... up to their original base magic rating of 6(i.e. if they lost 2 points they could buy 2) with much lower prerequisites than a magician attempting it.
I think it's an interesting idea.
On the other hand, adeptness may be purchased by an adept who has suffered magic loss due to cyberware, bioware, damage, etc... up to their original base magic rating of 6(i.e. if they lost 2 points they could buy 2) with much lower prerequisites than a magician attempting it.
I think it's an interesting idea.
Level 10 initiates, eh?
-Siege
-Siege
nemo, Centering is a magical skill. there's no question 'bout that.
@mfb
That's right, but for sorcery at level 1 you pay 1 Karmapoint, and anyone with Astral Perception can use it for Astral Combat.
That's right, but for sorcery at level 1 you pay 1 Karmapoint, and anyone with Astral Perception can use it for Astral Combat.
right, but sorcery is much less useful for an adept who can perceive and project. who needs sorcery, when you've got kung fu at 6 with 4 Improved Ability die? better to buy up Centering.
You can buy Sorcery at Chargen, but you can't initiate as an Adept at Chargen.
well, yeah. i tend to take the long view on characters, though. 'sides, you don't need to initiate to take the Centering skill--you just need to be an initiate to use it.
Actually, that is incorrect. You can take your artistic skill at chargen, but you can't take the required Centering skill (which cannot exceed you artistic skill) until you have the Centering metamagic.
Or maybe not
Or maybe not
it never actually says that, in MitS. as i pointed out in a concurrent thread, it actually says that Centering is the reason behind many ancient song and dance traditions--that people learned the Centering skill before there was even magic to Center with. nowhere in MitS does it say you can't learn the Centering skill without having learned the Centering metamagic.
| QUOTE |
| that people learned the Centering skill before there was even magic to Center with. |
I disagree with this. Magic always existed in SR; it was just harder to use durning the down cycle. That's why so many of the old magi had to have Centering and Geasa to even use it. But I agree MitS doesn't explicitly forbid it.
Our team has always played that the magician can not learn the Centering skill until after gaining the Centering Metamagic Technique. Yes, we do allow the character to start with the artistic skill.
| QUOTE (OurTeam) |
| Our team has always played...<snip> |
Are you Al Gore now? Talking about yourself in 3rd person?
| QUOTE (BitBasher) | ||
Are you Al Gore now? Talking about yourself in 3rd person? |
OurTeam's been doing that for ages! Since his first thread.
For those who may be interested the final concept is that the Drake and Metahuman will be split personalities. Both will essentially be separate from the other. (The GM will determine which entity is dominant at any given time. It is out of my hands.) The ego's will be completely different but the Superego and Id will remain as relative shadows for the drake. These shadows will be easily overwritten to develope his own morals and ethical backgrounds, wants and desires as if a person who was just let out of a sensory deprivation tank with an Insert key(keyboard) pressed at the beginning of his lifes story.
The metahuman half stays a full magician and the drake half picks up the powers of a physadept. (Though completely untrained, no skills of any kind nor power points assigned.) With a clean unbiased slate so if a mage came along and got the drake magically interested he could likely spend points in Magic Power and take himself down The Magicians Way however unlikely.(To those that argue, he has no basis yet for his development his Path has not been chosen leaving it open to growth.) Initiation affects as dual growth in both sides leaving the alternates choices free, even metamagics are to be separate. Initiation is .5 times more expensive additionally(House ruling.). If anyone has any logical explanation why this can not be please speak up. As magical growth is not delegated to simply knowledge but transcending physical boundaries into cleaner channeling of mana.
Essentially the Drake is going to be free to learn a completely different path of magic. Since being awakened is determined at birth, just the way you manipulate it is learned externally. They will be based off the same physical stats as well and share every other physical attribute as per normal drakes. The drake will be completely skilless to start and must essentially develope separately, except for karma which stays as one pool. Two characters situated in the the same body only vaguely aware of the others proceedings. The only ones to stay are those memories that are ingrained such as people with strong emotional connections, places, and possessions will vaguely be realized, and what the alter was doing just before the change, though not necessarily motivation. Now wether the alter chooses to maintain that path (If it is able to at all.) is up in the wind and hopefully that's not due to being in drake form while flying at several hundred feet.... ^_~
(And out of the pure genius that is my brain, I came up with this idea rather than allowing both halves to remember details about what the other halfs life I went with something far more Rp wise.) So that both sides know what the drek is going on an Ally Spirit is going to be summoned by Espiritu's metahuman half and be used to explain whats up with his other half and vice versa...once he figures out that he "has" another half. (He knows he's a drake but can't ever fully remember what happened.) Hell...he's only changed once and found an animals body shredded around him outside seattle.
Just thought some might find the choice interesting. And wanted to give a big thanks to all who contributed their theories and hard facts. Much of it is still being implemented into this character...like astral projection for the drake-adept. ^_^ Thanks again Nemo!
- Espiritu
The metahuman half stays a full magician and the drake half picks up the powers of a physadept. (Though completely untrained, no skills of any kind nor power points assigned.) With a clean unbiased slate so if a mage came along and got the drake magically interested he could likely spend points in Magic Power and take himself down The Magicians Way however unlikely.(To those that argue, he has no basis yet for his development his Path has not been chosen leaving it open to growth.) Initiation affects as dual growth in both sides leaving the alternates choices free, even metamagics are to be separate. Initiation is .5 times more expensive additionally(House ruling.). If anyone has any logical explanation why this can not be please speak up. As magical growth is not delegated to simply knowledge but transcending physical boundaries into cleaner channeling of mana.
Essentially the Drake is going to be free to learn a completely different path of magic. Since being awakened is determined at birth, just the way you manipulate it is learned externally. They will be based off the same physical stats as well and share every other physical attribute as per normal drakes. The drake will be completely skilless to start and must essentially develope separately, except for karma which stays as one pool. Two characters situated in the the same body only vaguely aware of the others proceedings. The only ones to stay are those memories that are ingrained such as people with strong emotional connections, places, and possessions will vaguely be realized, and what the alter was doing just before the change, though not necessarily motivation. Now wether the alter chooses to maintain that path (If it is able to at all.) is up in the wind and hopefully that's not due to being in drake form while flying at several hundred feet.... ^_~
(And out of the pure genius that is my brain, I came up with this idea rather than allowing both halves to remember details about what the other halfs life I went with something far more Rp wise.) So that both sides know what the drek is going on an Ally Spirit is going to be summoned by Espiritu's metahuman half and be used to explain whats up with his other half and vice versa...once he figures out that he "has" another half. (He knows he's a drake but can't ever fully remember what happened.) Hell...he's only changed once and found an animals body shredded around him outside seattle.
Just thought some might find the choice interesting. And wanted to give a big thanks to all who contributed their theories and hard facts. Much of it is still being implemented into this character...like astral projection for the drake-adept. ^_^ Thanks again Nemo!
- Espiritu
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten @ Sep 7 2004, 06:48 PM) | ||||
OurTeam's been doing that for ages! Since his first thread. |
"Our team" refers to the shadowrun gaming group that started playing at my house in Dec 1999.
"OurTeam" is my handle, chosen because I couldn't think of anything cool like you guys have. Someday I'll come up with something better than OurTeam. Also better than "rulelawyer", which I think I might have used briefly on these boards many years ago.
rulelawyer at yahoo dadot com
ourteam at comcast dadot net
/Edit: awww, now I've gone all teary-eyed with nostalgia. The replies to OurTeam on that day were such a wonderful introduction to the people here.
"OurTeam" is my handle, chosen because I couldn't think of anything cool like you guys have. Someday I'll come up with something better than OurTeam. Also better than "rulelawyer", which I think I might have used briefly on these boards many years ago.
rulelawyer at yahoo dadot com
ourteam at comcast dadot net
/Edit: awww, now I've gone all teary-eyed with nostalgia. The replies to OurTeam on that day were such a wonderful introduction to the people here.
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