Looking for a quick answer to a question that popped into my head: who could be considered Ares Macrotech's leading competator in the field of SOTA weapons?
[ Spoiler ]
Full Version: Ares' Rivals
Just in case: If you play the Saturday afternoon game with me at UIUC, don't read the spoiler. Why? Because it would spoil your fun!!!
Looking for a quick answer to a question that popped into my head: who could be considered Ares Macrotech's leading competator in the field of SOTA weapons?
Looking for a quick answer to a question that popped into my head: who could be considered Ares Macrotech's leading competator in the field of SOTA weapons?
Heckler & Koch, part of the big happy Saeder-Krupp family!
(No, I'm not biased!)
(No, I'm not biased!)
I'm not perfectly neutral on this, but I'd say Esprit Industries (a French mega described in SoE, working with S-K and Monobe) or Aztechnology. Renraku could be interested too.
| QUOTE (Nath) |
| I'm not perfectly neutral on this, but I'd say Esprit Industries (a French mega described in SoE, working with S-K and Monobe) or Aztechnology. Renraku could be interested too. |
whee! A reason to go by SoE after work.
Nath: marketing p1mp at work 
I thought Renraku was more into the heavy weapons field, and that thyey'd sold off most of that a while back? IWS might be another one worth considering.
Renraku did sell most of its assets in the European defense industry a while ago, but owns two firearms manufacturers in Asia, Shin Chou Kyogo in Japan and Ultimax in Singapore. Now I think about it there is no real basis for my impression that those two ones were focusing on hi-tech small weapons, smartlinks, automated systems and the like.
IWS might not be a good pick considering that Ares Arms own 30% of its capital.
IWS might not be a good pick considering that Ares Arms own 30% of its capital.
Flipping through Corporate Download, Ares Arms' (military technology rating 11) leading competator would seem to be one of the following:
Other competitors of interests could be:
\cth
- Aztechnology (military technology rating 8 ) - no specific divisions/subsidiaries mentioned.
- Renraku (military technology rating 7) - Renraku Asia subsidiaries includes two small arms manufactururers: Ultimax and Shin Chou Kyogo.
- Saeder-Krupp (military technology rating 7) - no specific divisions/subsidiaries mentioned.
- Shiawase (military technology rating 7) - Shiawase Armaments, Inc. which develops, produces and distributes everything from light pistols to warships (the Shiawase Aohana-class frigate from Rigger 3).
Other competitors of interests could be:
- The Cross Applied Technologies-owned Fleche Armaments.
- The Novatech-owned small arms manufacturer Cavalier Arms Limited (ask Patrick Goodman for further details )
\cth
Renraku owns Keruba (i think that's how it's spelled), which is a weapon corporation. In fact, Renraku was formed from the merger of Keruba and some other stuff. So Renraku is big into weapons.
Esprit Industries is rated 9 in Military Technology according to web bonus, putting it on the forefront. But as I said, I'm not perfectly neutral: I am the one who wrote those numbers down and Esprit is my pet-corp.
| QUOTE (cth) |
| Aztechnology (military technology rating 8 ) - no specific divisions/subsidiaries mentioned. |
In the Canon Companion and Rigger 3, Aztechnology is selling missile launchers and railgun under its own name.
| QUOTE (cth) |
| Saeder-Krupp (military technology rating 7) - no specific divisions/subsidiaries mentioned. |
Rigger 3 and SoE say Saeder-Krupp subsidiaries include GIAT Industries, the RL French company (currently state-owned) who produces FAMAS assault riffles and Leclerc main battle tanks.
| QUOTE (Backgammon) |
| Renraku owns Keruba (i think that's how it's spelled), which is a weapon corporation. In fact, Renraku was formed from the merger of Keruba and some other stuff. So Renraku is big into weapons. |
Actually, Renraku was an empty shell funded in 2029 by Inazo Aneki and its partners just to take over Keruba International. According to SoE on the basis of Blood in the Booardroom, Renraku sold almost all of Keruba original assets in the defense industry in the late 2030ies to get rid of the corruption that plagued them, only retaining Izom Armaments (probably a Hungarian company). With the asian firearms manufacturers and probably some other assets, it justifies a middle-of-the-pack rating in the defense industry. But Keruba also had some juicy computers hardware and software subsidiaries who became prevalent in the meantime after their memory storage system became the standard for the Matrix.
There's also the Japanese AA Monobe International who owns Herstal (Belgian firearms manufacturer IRL, French by 2063) whose most exotic product so far is the gyrojet pistol.
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| Heckler & Koch, part of the big happy Saeder-Krupp family! (No, I'm not biased!) |
Then why does Ares distribute them?
| QUOTE | ||
Then why does Ares distribute them? |
Well, isn't is Weapon's World that distributes them? Which, while part of Ares, is know for having "all the wepaons in the world" or some other marketing ploy. In short, it's about money and long term profits over petty corporate rivalry. Boeing makes Ares planes, car dealerships sell competing vehicles. Preventing Saeder-Krupp distributers from gaining footholds in the Ares dominated retail market seems like a better long term strategy if we consdier that HK may not always be owned by SK or even totally owned by them.
If this is a case of the weapon being an advanced model, prototype, or other such early-production model, I would think that nearly any corporation that designs or manufactures weapons of any sort would be interested. Reverse-engineering, and perhaps beating Ares to the open-market punch would be a major coup in the weapons PR world.
And if they couldn't beat Ares to the market, they can at least get a comparable model on the market fast. To my knowledge, no one else has marketed any form of laser weapon since the first MP laser in 2055, so any competition is almost guaranteed a decent market share.
And if they couldn't beat Ares to the market, they can at least get a comparable model on the market fast. To my knowledge, no one else has marketed any form of laser weapon since the first MP laser in 2055, so any competition is almost guaranteed a decent market share.
| QUOTE |
| Heckler & Koch, part of the big happy Saeder-Krupp family! (No, I'm not biased!) |
It's not biased to recognize and respect the fact that H&K make some of the finest modern small arms on the planet. Well, maybe a little biased, if you count being biased towards quality.
Which, of course, makes them perfect for interest in a completely non-firearm technology.
Not saying that they wouldn't necessarily be interested, but they're far from a sure thing. I could easily see them leaving the lasers to the other guys right now and concentrating on building a better slugthrower.
~J
Not saying that they wouldn't necessarily be interested, but they're far from a sure thing. I could easily see them leaving the lasers to the other guys right now and concentrating on building a better slugthrower.
~J
| QUOTE (Nath) | ||||||
Esprit Industries is rated 9 in Military Technology according to web bonus, putting it on the forefront. But as I said, I'm not perfectly neutral: I am the one who wrote those numbers down and Esprit is my pet-corp.
In the Canon Companion and Rigger 3, Aztechnology is selling missile launchers and railgun under its own name.
Rigger 3 and SoE say Saeder-Krupp subsidiaries include GIAT Industries, the RL French company (currently state-owned) who produces FAMAS assault riffles and Leclerc main battle tanks.
Actually, Renraku was an empty shell funded in 2029 by Inazo Aneki and its partners just to take over Keruba International. According to SoE on the basis of Blood in the Booardroom, Renraku sold almost all of Keruba original assets in the defense industry in the late 2030ies to get rid of the corruption that plagued them, only retaining Izom Armaments (probably a Hungarian company). With the asian firearms manufacturers and probably some other assets, it justifies a middle-of-the-pack rating in the defense industry. But Keruba also had some juicy computers hardware and software subsidiaries who became prevalent in the meantime after their memory storage system became the standard for the Matrix. There's also the Japanese AA Monobe International who owns Herstal (Belgian firearms manufacturer IRL, French by 2063) whose most exotic product so far is the gyrojet pistol. |
Monobe owns Fabrique Nationale? Did they buy them out from under GIAT? GIAT currently owns FNH.
Where's British Aerospace here? They show up in SOTA63 as the makers of the Agincourt Mortar Carrier. Did Saeder-Krupp buy them out or just buy Heckler & Koch from them, who is currently a subsidary of BAe?
Almost all the AAA have their hands in armaments. Another division not mentioned is Mitsuhama Militia-ware. I swear that Yamatetsu's got a weapons division, but I'm not sure what it's name is.
Renraku owns SCK and Chartered Industries of Singapore? (Ultimax is a gun line, not the company; reminds me of the recently corrected typo in CC with the Semopal vz88, which used to be called Samopal, until, I guess, someone informed them that Samopal is Czech for "submachinegun".)
IWS could still make a good company, even if it's own by Ares. There has always been a history of divisions competing against one another. Just recently, at the Austin Game Conference, a representative for Sony Consumer Electronicsm of America (i.e. makers of PS2), in a keynote speech with Microsoft, said that they will crush the competition in internet gaming industry, mentioning Sony Online Entertainment by name.
The problem with SOE is that Europe is an afterthought in the SR world. The overriding mentality is that everything that S-K didn't absorb was bought up or merged into one of the big 7. Even North America only has one representative in the big 7 (Ares), and there really aren't that many AAs out there.
IMHO you have room for a couple previously unmentioned major corporations like Esprit (I dont have SOE, is it a rising star like CATco and Novatech, or a long-time AA like Transys Neuronet?), and everything else has skeletons in the closet tying them to big 7 money. Looking at non-Japanese Asia and ignoring Yamatetsu, there's probably only half a dozen or so major corporations out there, most of which are in the PPG.
It may or may not be canon, but I would GM rule that all but a handful of European corps not mentioned in SOE (plus a few that are) are really AAA subsidiaries with fancy paperwork and quiet buyouts (Most of which would be S-K).
PS - I know, but I still like to call them the big 7.
Oops, and to answer your question:
I'd dig out the SSC and read off company names. Major brand names on my quick USA-background skimming are Beretta, Browning, Ceska, Colt, Mossberg, Walther, H&K. Skimming FoF adds Ingram, Barret, Remington, and Franchi to the list. A few of these I seem to recall as Ares subsidiaries. Most of the rest are probably so vaguely mentioned in canon that ownership is never stated.
IMHO you have room for a couple previously unmentioned major corporations like Esprit (I dont have SOE, is it a rising star like CATco and Novatech, or a long-time AA like Transys Neuronet?), and everything else has skeletons in the closet tying them to big 7 money. Looking at non-Japanese Asia and ignoring Yamatetsu, there's probably only half a dozen or so major corporations out there, most of which are in the PPG.
It may or may not be canon, but I would GM rule that all but a handful of European corps not mentioned in SOE (plus a few that are) are really AAA subsidiaries with fancy paperwork and quiet buyouts (Most of which would be S-K).
PS - I know, but I still like to call them the big 7.
Oops, and to answer your question:
I'd dig out the SSC and read off company names. Major brand names on my quick USA-background skimming are Beretta, Browning, Ceska, Colt, Mossberg, Walther, H&K. Skimming FoF adds Ingram, Barret, Remington, and Franchi to the list. A few of these I seem to recall as Ares subsidiaries. Most of the rest are probably so vaguely mentioned in canon that ownership is never stated.
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) | ||||
Well, isn't is Weapon's World that distributes them? Which, while part of Ares, is know for having "all the wepaons in the world" or some other marketing ploy. In short, it's about money and long term profits over petty corporate rivalry. Boeing makes Ares planes, car dealerships sell competing vehicles. Preventing Saeder-Krupp distributers from gaining footholds in the Ares dominated retail market seems like a better long term strategy if we consdier that HK may not always be owned by SK or even totally owned by them. |
Well, I only consider it insofar as SSC was an Ares Arms document written before the purchase of Weapons World from Monobe.
| QUOTE (msde) |
| I'd dig out the SSC and read off company names. Major brand names on my quick USA-background skimming are Beretta, Browning, Ceska, Colt, Mossberg, Walther, H&K. Skimming FoF adds Ingram, Barret, Remington, and Franchi to the list. A few of these I seem to recall as Ares subsidiaries. Most of the rest are probably so vaguely mentioned in canon that ownership is never stated. |
You forgot one, one I completely ignored until recently: Winter Systems of New York. They're mentioned as an low-level competitor against Knight Errant for NY (in SoA), but is first mentioned, twice, in the SSC, first as the makers of the Flash-Pak and then in then right in Shadowtalk on the Ares laser. There's a rumor that their working on their own portable continuous laser system, which Nightfire, Ares salesperson, shoots down.
| QUOTE |
Esprit Industries is rated 9 in Military Technology according to web bonus, putting it on the forefront. But as I said, I'm not perfectly neutral I am the one who wrote those numbers down and Esprit is my pet-corp. |
Esprit Industries is your pet corp and you put Herbert de Vaucanson in charge?!? LOL!!!
| QUOTE (Crisp) |
| Esprit Industries is your pet corp and you put Herbert de Vaucanson in charge?!? LOL!!! |
Actually, somebody put him in charge in some draft document, and I didn't mind keeping him. The reference to the "Donjon" French comics actually gave me, humor aside, a basis to imagine the kind of guy that could be heading Esprit a nice guy finding a job at the wrong place, forced to learn how to fight. And when he reached the top position, he inherited from his predecessors a powerful black ops network that make him intouchable (call that a metaphor). In the "Donjon" series, Vaucanson ends as an arch-evil character, and we have yet to figure out how it happened...
But I probably underestimated how much people who know the serie would only think the original character.
| QUOTE (Nath) |
| In the "Donjon" series, Vaucanson ends as an arch-evil character, and we have yet to figure out how it happened... But I probably underestimated how much people who know the serie would only think the original character. |
You're right I was thinking of the original Herbert from Coeur de Canard
I hadn't considered that it might be "Le Grand Khan"...
| QUOTE (Nath) | ||
Rigger 3 and SoE say Saeder-Krupp subsidiaries include GIAT Industries, the RL French company (currently state-owned) who produces FAMAS assault riffles and Leclerc main battle tanks. |
SK also sells weapons and military vehicles under its own name.
| QUOTE (Young Freud) |
| Monobe owns Fabrique Nationale? Did they buy them out from under GIAT? GIAT currently owns FNH. |
IRL, GIAT owned Herstal for a while during the 1990ies, and then sold it to the Regional government of Wallonia in Belgium. Considering Belgium and Wallonia history in SR, the control could have ended to nearly anybody on Earth.
| QUOTE (Young Freud) |
| Where's British Aerospace here? They show up in SOTA63 as the makers of the Agincourt Mortar Carrier. Did Saeder-Krupp buy them out or just buy Heckler & Koch from them, who is currently a subsidary of BAe? |
AS far as I know, SOTA:63 is the only book mentionning them. The BAC is supposed to be one of the company involved in the EFA Variants production, and several books mentions Hawker-Siddley (instead of Siddeley) as an Aztechnology subsidiary (making the merger who created BAe in 1977 one of the oldest event of contemporary history to be ignored by SR). The London SB seemed to imply IWS was gathering most of the British defense industry, so I guess the best solution would be to state BAE is a subsdiary of IWS.
Anyway, BAE sold Heckler & Koch in december 2002. Oh, and there's still no conclusive elements to assert that S-K owns Heckler & Koch by 2063. Even if nationality mattered (which it does not), Ruhrmetall (basically Rheinmetall renamed) would make as much sense as S-K.
| QUOTE (Young Freud) |
| Almost all the AAA have their hands in armaments. Another division not mentioned is Mitsuhama Militia-ware. |
Militia-Ware is mentionned in Cyberpirates page 85, where it's said the Philippines is their only big market, keeping the volume and quality of production quite low. Except tha drone design Mitsuhama makes by itself, they'd probably be producing mostly under license, when they won't act just as intermediaries.
| QUOTE (msde) |
| The problem with SOE is that Europe is an afterthought in the SR world. The overriding mentality is that everything that S-K didn't absorb was bought up or merged into one of the big 7. |
That's why the London SB (1991) added British Industrial, HKB, Transys Neuronet and Zeta-ImpChem, and the Germany SB (1994) Ruhrmetall, IFMU and the Frankfurter Bankverein (and later, in T:SH IIRC, Proteus)...
| QUOTE (msde) |
| IMHO you have room for a couple previously unmentioned major corporations like Esprit (I dont have SOE, is it a rising star like CATco and Novatech, or a long-time AA like Transys Neuronet?), and everything else has skeletons in the closet tying them to big 7 money. |
Esprit is supposed to be a long-timer (actually, it was first mentionned in Fields of Fire under the military armor entry), but has S-K, Monobe and a French corp owning 10-20% of the capital each (the actual number aren't stated).
At the end of SoE, I know of 19 AA megacorps in Europe. 4½ were introduced in London, 4 in Germany, 1 in T:SH, 2 in Rigger 3, and 8½ new to SoE (although 3 of them have passing mentions in older books). The continent could have get boring if the two first countries to get a books should have been the only ones allowed to host megacorps and Great Dragons.
| QUOTE (msde) |
| Even North America only has one representative in the big 7 (Ares), and there really aren't that many AAs out there. |
DocWagon, Fed-Boeing, Ford, Lockheed, Lone Star, Phoenix Biotechnologies, Universal Omnitech, UCAS Online, Gunderson until 2061, and Cross before 2060. Plus Hisato-Turner Broadcasting if the legal HQ is Atlanta, and maybe some more like Microdeck or United Oil for which it was never clearly stated if they should be rated A or AA.
| QUOTE (Nath) |
| Anyway, BAE sold Heckler & Koch in december 2002. Oh, and there's still no conclusive elements to assert that S-K owns Heckler & Koch by 2063. Even if nationality mattered (which it does not), Ruhrmetall (basically Rheinmetall renamed) would make as much sense as S-K. |
I didn't mean to imply it was obvious or canon S-K owns H&K. That just happens to be how it is IMG.
In my own game, Heckler & Koch (Oberndorf-am-Nekar, Germany) is an independent corporation like it is now, providing R&D not only for its own weapon systems, but a lot of other independent firearm designers and companies. IMO, not everything has to be a subsidiary of a mega. Today HK also owns Suhler Jagd & Sportwaffen (Merkel) GmbH (Suhl, Germany).
And to back up Nath, Fabrique Nationale Herstal (Liege, Belgium) is now state-owned. FNH owns Browning (Morgan, Utah (Ute Nation)), US Repeating Arms Co. (aka Winchester; New Haven, Connecticut (UCAS)), and FN Manufacturing (Columbia, South Carolina (CAS)). They also have manufacturing plants in Zutendaal, Belgium; Viana, Portugal and Anagni, Italy. FNH also has some kind of partnership with Miroku, a Japanese firearm manufacturer (if there is such a thing).
I'd like to pin down what happened to Ruger. Ruger is currently the largest single small arms manfacturer in the US (possibly the world). They have two foundries in the US that produce investment castings for firearms (theirs as well as others) as well as castings for other industries (golf, aerospace, marine, etc...). Their main foundry is in Prescott, AZ which according to the Sixth World site, looks to be in the Pueblo Corporate Council. The other foundry is in Newport, NH (UCAS).
Would Ruger be allowed to operate in the NAN? Or would they be forced to set up shop elsewhere? Seems to me that if Ruger had to sell the Prescott foundry, PCC would have a pretty impressive small arms industry.
Beretta (Gardone val Trompia, Italy) currently owns Benelli (Urbino, Italy), Franchi (Gardone val Trompia), Uberti (Gardone val Trompia), Sako/Tikka (Riihimäki, Finland), and Burris Optics (Greeley, Colorado (Denver? Sioux?)), as well as Stoeger, a US firearms importer and publishing company with several connections to South American manufacturers.
Ingram is the name of a firearm designer (Gordon B. Ingram, deceased), not a company, though I suppose someone could have made a company with his namesake (looking at the pictures of the Ingram guns, it seems that the were using some of his ideas), though his designs were never anything more than utilitarian. The MAC-10 (MAC is an acronym for Military Armament Corporation, which folded in 1975, IIRC) is probably his most famous design.
Barrett is self-owned, and it will be as long as Ronnie Barrett is alive. Of course, he'll probably be long gone by 2060, but I have a feeling he'll try to keep it in the family. 50-caliber anti-materiel rifles mostly, though they recently introduced a 25mm anti-materiel rifle and a 6.8x42mm M16-based rifle that is competing to replace the M4 Carbine.
Mossberg is owned by the Mossberg family. North Haven, Connecticut (UCAS). Major market is shotguns (pump, auto, bolt), but they do make a break-action rifle as well. They market mostly toward hunting, but do have several defensive shotguns, some of which have seen military contracts. O.F. Mossberg & Sons also owns Maverick Arms. Eagle Pass, TX (Aztlan). Maverick manufactures a value line of shotguns.
Remington is the second-largest US firearm manufacturer, and is a owned by an investment firm (RACI Acquisitions). Illion, New York (UCAS) and Mayfield, Kentucky (UCAS). They have a powder metals division that manufactures parts for several industries using the metal injection molding (MIM) process. They market heavily toward hunting, though they do have military contracts for sniper rifles and shotguns (USMC M40, US Army M24, M870).
Colt's Manufacturing Company (commercial) and Colt Defense (LE/military) are owned by Colt Holdings. Hartford, Connecticut (UCAS). At this point, it's anybody's guess as to what will happen to them. Their business has been going straight down the tank since about 1982, but did pick up again when the DOD decided to buy the M4 Carbine in 1994. Now that the military is seriously thinking about replacing the M4, Colt may have to do some quick stepping to stay in business. They do have an institutional bias as far as military contracts go, but considering the break-up of the US, that may not matter a whole lot. At the very least, the Colt name is marketable, so it seems pretty reasonable to me that Ares would buy them out.
Carl Walther GmbH (Ulm-am-Donau, Germany) is currently owned by UMAREX, a company that makes CO2 guns, air rifles and blank pistols, and they use the Walther name for some of those products. Walther may be gone tomorrow, but the name is money, so Saeder-Krupp very well could own Walther. In fact, that's how it is in my games. As far as firearms go, Walther currently manufactures semi-auto pistols and small bore (.22) rifles.
"Ceska" is Czech for, well... "Czech", I think. There are a few Czech arms factories, but the most famous is Ceska Zbrojovka, or CZ, based in the town of Uhersky Brod in the Czech Republic. CZUB is probably the largest firearm manufacturer in Europe at the moment. They make pistols, rifles, shotguns, submachine guns, assault rifles and airguns. CZUB started out as a state-owned factory, but went private in 1991.
And to back up Nath, Fabrique Nationale Herstal (Liege, Belgium) is now state-owned. FNH owns Browning (Morgan, Utah (Ute Nation)), US Repeating Arms Co. (aka Winchester; New Haven, Connecticut (UCAS)), and FN Manufacturing (Columbia, South Carolina (CAS)). They also have manufacturing plants in Zutendaal, Belgium; Viana, Portugal and Anagni, Italy. FNH also has some kind of partnership with Miroku, a Japanese firearm manufacturer (if there is such a thing).
I'd like to pin down what happened to Ruger. Ruger is currently the largest single small arms manfacturer in the US (possibly the world). They have two foundries in the US that produce investment castings for firearms (theirs as well as others) as well as castings for other industries (golf, aerospace, marine, etc...). Their main foundry is in Prescott, AZ which according to the Sixth World site, looks to be in the Pueblo Corporate Council. The other foundry is in Newport, NH (UCAS).
Would Ruger be allowed to operate in the NAN? Or would they be forced to set up shop elsewhere? Seems to me that if Ruger had to sell the Prescott foundry, PCC would have a pretty impressive small arms industry.
Beretta (Gardone val Trompia, Italy) currently owns Benelli (Urbino, Italy), Franchi (Gardone val Trompia), Uberti (Gardone val Trompia), Sako/Tikka (Riihimäki, Finland), and Burris Optics (Greeley, Colorado (Denver? Sioux?)), as well as Stoeger, a US firearms importer and publishing company with several connections to South American manufacturers.
Ingram is the name of a firearm designer (Gordon B. Ingram, deceased), not a company, though I suppose someone could have made a company with his namesake (looking at the pictures of the Ingram guns, it seems that the were using some of his ideas), though his designs were never anything more than utilitarian. The MAC-10 (MAC is an acronym for Military Armament Corporation, which folded in 1975, IIRC) is probably his most famous design.
Barrett is self-owned, and it will be as long as Ronnie Barrett is alive. Of course, he'll probably be long gone by 2060, but I have a feeling he'll try to keep it in the family. 50-caliber anti-materiel rifles mostly, though they recently introduced a 25mm anti-materiel rifle and a 6.8x42mm M16-based rifle that is competing to replace the M4 Carbine.
Mossberg is owned by the Mossberg family. North Haven, Connecticut (UCAS). Major market is shotguns (pump, auto, bolt), but they do make a break-action rifle as well. They market mostly toward hunting, but do have several defensive shotguns, some of which have seen military contracts. O.F. Mossberg & Sons also owns Maverick Arms. Eagle Pass, TX (Aztlan). Maverick manufactures a value line of shotguns.
Remington is the second-largest US firearm manufacturer, and is a owned by an investment firm (RACI Acquisitions). Illion, New York (UCAS) and Mayfield, Kentucky (UCAS). They have a powder metals division that manufactures parts for several industries using the metal injection molding (MIM) process. They market heavily toward hunting, though they do have military contracts for sniper rifles and shotguns (USMC M40, US Army M24, M870).
Colt's Manufacturing Company (commercial) and Colt Defense (LE/military) are owned by Colt Holdings. Hartford, Connecticut (UCAS). At this point, it's anybody's guess as to what will happen to them. Their business has been going straight down the tank since about 1982, but did pick up again when the DOD decided to buy the M4 Carbine in 1994. Now that the military is seriously thinking about replacing the M4, Colt may have to do some quick stepping to stay in business. They do have an institutional bias as far as military contracts go, but considering the break-up of the US, that may not matter a whole lot. At the very least, the Colt name is marketable, so it seems pretty reasonable to me that Ares would buy them out.
Carl Walther GmbH (Ulm-am-Donau, Germany) is currently owned by UMAREX, a company that makes CO2 guns, air rifles and blank pistols, and they use the Walther name for some of those products. Walther may be gone tomorrow, but the name is money, so Saeder-Krupp very well could own Walther. In fact, that's how it is in my games. As far as firearms go, Walther currently manufactures semi-auto pistols and small bore (.22) rifles.
"Ceska" is Czech for, well... "Czech", I think. There are a few Czech arms factories, but the most famous is Ceska Zbrojovka, or CZ, based in the town of Uhersky Brod in the Czech Republic. CZUB is probably the largest firearm manufacturer in Europe at the moment. They make pistols, rifles, shotguns, submachine guns, assault rifles and airguns. CZUB started out as a state-owned factory, but went private in 1991.
| QUOTE (Raygun) |
| And to back up Nath, Fabrique Nationale Herstal (Liege, Belgium) is now state-owned. FNH owns Browning (Morgan, Utah (Ute Nation)), US Repeating Arms Co. (aka Winchester; New Haven, Connecticut (UCAS)), and FN Manufacturing (Columbia, South Carolina (CAS)). They also have manufacturing plants in Zutendaal, Belgium; Viana, Portugal and Anagni, Italy. FNH also has some kind of partnership with Miroku, a Japanese firearm manufacturer (if there is such a thing). |
Miroku tends to be a hunting arms manufacturer. They produce a great deal of bolt action rifles and hunting shotguns, both for export and for the niche hunting market in Japan. The reason why FNH is dealing with them is that they've got the manufacturing power and they tend to use Browning designs.
IRL, Shin Chou Kogyo is gone, long gone. It was absorbed by Minebea company in 1975, who produce copies of the SIG and an indigenous version of the Micro Uzi pistol (It's not exactly an Uzi, but if you see it, it's obvious what the action is based off of, but it has a longer barrel with a flash-suppressor, and a foregrip), both for the JSDF. The other Japanese arms manufacturer is Howa, who current produces the Type 89 rifles. Both of these are light to heavy industrial manufacturing companies, and who knows what happens to them in SR. It's likely that Minebea is bought by Renraku, resurrecting SCK, while Howa is bought out by Mitsuhama.
The reports of Steyr Mannlicher's death have been exaggerated. Which isn't that surprising, since it too is connected heavy manufacturing parent company, Steyr Werke AG. They've recently entered into a deal with the Malaysian state-owned arms manufacturer to produce the Steyr AUGA3 for export. Interestingly enough, Australian Defense Industries are producing their own seperate F88A3, plus a new Future Combat Weapon. It's like in SR, Saeder-Krupp or maybe Ruhrmetall owns them.
I've been wondering what's happened to the French company Manuhrin, who produce and distribute the SIG SG550 series rifles and the Bushmaster 25mm autocannon internationally, along with their own line of revolvers. Absorbed by S-K or Esprit?
| QUOTE (Young Freud) |
| Interestingly enough, Australian Defense Industries are producing their own seperate F88A3, plus a new Future Combat Weapon. It's like in SR, Saeder-Krupp or maybe Ruhrmetall owns them. |
IIRC, ADI is half-owned by French group Thales, one of the company on which Esprit is based. However in SR the local megacorp Tanamyre has its own defense unit through its subsidiary Commonwealth Armament Solutions
| QUOTE (Young Freud) |
| I've been wondering what's happened to the French company Manuhrin, who produce and distribute the SIG SG550 series rifles and the Bushmaster 25mm autocannon internationally, along with their own line of revolvers. Absorbed by S-K or Esprit? |
Manurhin is nowadays a branch of GIAT, so if it stayed like that would be S-K.
According to SoE, Esprit has its own branch for firearms, with Beretta as a subsidiary. As the author who did that, I'm still not sure if that was a good idea. But now it's printed so...
um yeah, Beretta, oldest industial enterprise in continuous existence since 1527, still family owned to this day, very diversified and stable, decides to suddenly sell out. yeah i think i said something to you a while back about this. 
All it takes is the death of the family. Did someone say VITAS?
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Nath) |
| Germany SB (1994) Ruhrmetall, IFMU and the Frankfurter Bankverein (and later, in T:SH IIRC, Proteus)... |
At least in the German version (Deutschland in den Schatten, published 1992) Proteus has been around since the beginning - although there weren't many facts about the corporation.
It suddenly appeared at the end of the 40ies and started building giant arcologies in the North Sea.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 27 2004, 08:47 PM) |
| All it takes is the death of the family. Did someone say VITAS? |
well we're not talking physics or anything so all I can really say is i disagree or it's unlikely. but they are fecund italians and VITAS spread had something to do with living conditions, thats why it had little effect on the wealthy countries (HQ in Brescia, just down the road from milan, wealthy northern italy) and probably the not wealthiest people much at all.
notice ARES is really big into aerospace and space, think of it as Lockheed and Alliant Technologies merging (ammunition makers also big into rocketry)
http://www.endgame.org/oligopolies.html#We...turersWorldwide
I didn't say it was likely, but it's a possibility.
When did Beretta sell out? There might've been some corp foul play there, too (a powerful brand to have at your disposal).
~J
When did Beretta sell out? There might've been some corp foul play there, too (a powerful brand to have at your disposal).
~J
they're not vulnerable to traditional corporate foul play as they aren't a corporation, they are privately owned. no buyouts, no hostile takeovers.
I was thinking wetwork.
~J
~J
well it's your game, you could treat it like a big mafia family with vendettas and stuff, make a nice adventure out of it, does it say exactly when this happened? I suppose if you killed off everyone in the family, the name Beretta still has status and would be a valuble commodity, especially to some french company because french weapons aren't known for quality.
old crazy wealthy industrialist families make for good plot hooks, see also the DuPonts (who in RL murdered SR author Jak Koke's brother in law), Tessier & Ashpool of Gibson fame, Microdeck's Gates family in SR, the Hearst family, that crazy family from The Big Sleep, Reliance Group of india's Ambani family, Heinz-Kerry as well as the Bushes.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/newsletter/19.../197dupont.html
old crazy wealthy industrialist families make for good plot hooks, see also the DuPonts (who in RL murdered SR author Jak Koke's brother in law), Tessier & Ashpool of Gibson fame, Microdeck's Gates family in SR, the Hearst family, that crazy family from The Big Sleep, Reliance Group of india's Ambani family, Heinz-Kerry as well as the Bushes.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/newsletter/19.../197dupont.html
| QUOTE |
| Schultz, working on his car, met du Pont with, "Hey, coach." Du Pont replied, "You got a problem with me?" He then shot Schultz once in the arm and twice in the chest. Mrs. Schultz watched in horror as the last bullet was fired... Du Pont is a great-great grandson of E.I. du Pont, the French-born industrialist who founded the chemical company. He is one of hundreds of heirs to the family fortune, Since the shooting, his siblings have sought guardianship of du Pont and control of his estate, estimated at $250 million. For years, du Pont's erratic behavior had been chalked up to the "eccentricities" of a rich man. He once drove around his estate in a tank and reportedly drove two Lincoln Town Cars into a pond. He has identified himself as the Dalai Lama, Jesus, the last Russian czar and the target of international assassins. |
anybody know anything about the Krupp family in SR? are they any part of Thyssen-Krupp or Saeder-Krupp? William Manchester wrote a book about the Krupp family that is a great way of exploring german history and industrialization, i'd love to read a similar book about the Berettas.
| QUOTE (otomik) |
| anybody know anything about the Krupp family in SR? are they any part of Thyssen-Krupp or Saeder-Krupp? William Manchester wrote a book about the Krupp family that is a great way of exploring german history and industrialization, i'd love to read a similar book about the Berettas. |
The merger of Thyssen and Krupp occured only in 1999, well after Saeder-Krupp was introduced in SR. It has never been stated if such merger ever occured in SR timeline, and ThyssenKrupp have never ben mentionned AFAIK. Also, all sources prior to Saeder-Krupp formation refers simply to "Krupp". Concerning the Krupp family, according to SoE (and probably some other German sources), S-K world headquarters are right next to the "Villa Hügel", their traditional mansion (the way S-K was formed is quite mysterious ; they could as well pay a tribute to the Quandt family afterall). Anyway, if there are some Krupp alive, they're no longer heading any major German corporation.
| QUOTE (cth) |
|
I really must pop in here more frequently....
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