Okay, so spells and foci over a particular force rating (two? three?) are illegal under UCAS law - which makes sense in terms of the Shadowrun universe as it gives the corporations and such another edge over the law-abiding citizen.

But my question is - how can this be enforced with any legitimacy? I've never described something as being a "force 5 hellblast" in character. Other than the size of an area effect spell, how does a Lone Star cop tell the difference between a force 2 manabolt and a force 4 manabolt and then sucsessfully press charges based on these things?

Of course, this would assume that the star wasn't completely corrupt and quite willing to write off a SINless runner as "shot while trying to escape"...

General power. A Force 3 xyzzy might very well go unnoticed, but by the time you're at Force 4 the difference is probably noticeable.

~J

IIRC (how the hell that means "If I Recall" is beyond me. If anything it should be IIR. Anyway), with a proper Astral Perception test, can't you find the general force of a spell in relation to your Magic Rating or somesuch?

If I Recall Correctly.

Ah, that would be it.

Crazy brain and its not working-ness.

The forces of object are actually an in-character mechanic, mentioned in (I believe) Awakenings. It's a system not everybody uses, but it's a Hermetic system for benchmarking the raw amount of astral energy a particular spell can channel based on some bizzare mathematical formula.

In game, it's measured by astral sight, and possibly lingering spell signature at the site of a spell.

Interesting point. Astral signatures by Lonestar mages are probably the most widely used way that's done. Anyway, I wonder about a Force 4 spell that's scaled down to a Force 2 one temporarily (I believe you can scale down spells but I never play magic users).

You can, and it should be essentially indistinguishable from a native Force 2 spell.

~J

That's the way I rez it. You only see the spell at the force it's cast at, not what the magician is *capable* of casting it at.

People have a natural tendency to quantify things, so I don't have much problem using terminology such as "force 5 manabolt" or "rating 2 wired reflexes" in character. And it sure makes things easier.

-Joe

I guess that I'll have to re-read awakenings then (not that I mind, it's still one of my fave sourcebooks). If the hermetics have managed a system, then it's all settled I guess.

Just had trouble pondering how to measure an arbitrary amount of energy without any sort of tools other than astral observers.

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

An astral perception test on a focus or active spell will give the force it was cast at.

It also limits access to spell formula (you need a licence to by one legally above the force limit.

Edward

Yeah, i'm pretty sure its a scale with a name and everything, like the Richter scale. And again, I think it is in Awakenings, in the IC blurb in the first chapter or so.

Hey, does anyone know what the limits are on wards and that kind of thing? is that also limited to R2 in UCAS? Seems a little extreme, is all. Is there a limit on Spirit Force? I know that if they do anything illegal the mage is considered guilty of the crime and I might've read somewhere that they (and use of deadly spells) also are considered premeditated, but I can't remember if the actual force of spirits is limited as well.

In our game, magic is quantified on the MIT & T scale. Most people use it and I'm not sure if it was made up or was included in an old edition somewhere.

Wards don't carry a limit that I am aware of and spirits might only because they are considered an extension of the mage summoning them. In that regard, they are like spells.

In our game we can never remember the name of the scale. So when we do have to say it we make something up (like the Kagetenshi-Spook scale) and everyone nods in agreement.

i would like to add some spell should be ilegal reguardless of their force. Say Slay human. A force 1 slay human should be more illegal than say a force 6 treat spell.

the spells in the book are just for rules, your slay human spell can be called "happy fun time spell", it just happens to kill humans

also think of a high e level treat spell to be like practicing medicine without a license, a force 2 treat spell is just like performing first aid

There's a much better reason why practicing magical medicine is such a huge no-no.

A) It renders Pharmeceutical companies obsolete.
B) It renders the eliteness of the doctor 'obsolete' (and replaces it with another elite, but the doctors wouldn't care about that)
C) It keeps medicine from being practiced outside of the oversight of insurance companies.

In general, it weakens the authority of the entire UCAS medical system and the authority vested IN that system, because it's cheaper, faster, and involves less megacorporations.

Which, as we know, pisses them off.

if you break your leg and heal it with the treat spell, does it set itself and heal or just heal?

i rule it has to first be set or you wont heal correctly, which could be real bad

Yet another reason to do first-aid first.

And in my game yes ot does reseat the bone. Because if it didn't that would lead to a contradiction as it coule never get you to 0 boxes of damage, which it can.

Well, you can train people to be doctors, but you have to be born awakened. That's one of the reasons why magical healing hasn't replaced the Hippocratic industry.

Any criminal act performed with magic is considered premeditated (not atuomatically guilty). So magical homicide will always net you a charge of Murder 1 if you get caught (I also think that some spells, such as Slay etc are always illegal, although I can't remember where I read that).

As far as legality, can't you get permits for some spells above force 2?