Full Version: Rulelawyer Quiz -- Healing the Samurai
Simple question. I want the Canon answer. You may use your books.
My understanding is that magic healing and medical healing don't mix. If you try one, and it succeeds, you can't try the other.
I may be wrong though. (I didn't look at my book).
I may be wrong though. (I didn't look at my book).
Shadow -- First Aid before Magical Healing works, but not the other way around.
He can retry the Treat Spell (as long as he gets a success within the Magic Hour). I believe (not having my books) that the specific wording is in reference to successful magical healing attempts.
Shadow: First Aid can be successfully applied before any procedure, but has no effect if applied after any other type of treatment. Magic can be applied at any time in the healing process, as long as it has not been successfully applied to the same injury in the past.
My house rule on this matter is that the same Spell cannot be successfully applied to any individual Wound, thereby making it possible to use Stabilize, Treat, Heal, and any other sundry Health spell to further a patient's recovery. All at a cost, of course.
Edit: Spellink!
Shadow: First Aid can be successfully applied before any procedure, but has no effect if applied after any other type of treatment. Magic can be applied at any time in the healing process, as long as it has not been successfully applied to the same injury in the past.
My house rule on this matter is that the same Spell cannot be successfully applied to any individual Wound, thereby making it possible to use Stabilize, Treat, Heal, and any other sundry Health spell to further a patient's recovery. All at a cost, of course.
Edit: Spellink!
Only thing I can see is pg 172 of the BBB, "Successful use of either spell precludes the use of additional healing or treating spells, or of first aid..."
I'd say try, try again -- at least until you get a success.
My house rule in this case is that while the healing spell is being sustained to make it permanent (as per pg. 178), the same caster can attempt to add successes to it by casting the same spell again at the additional +2 TN for casting while sustaining. The first failure on these additional attempts will "lock" the healing at the current number of successes. And of course, if the caster knocks himself out with drain, then he can't sustain the healing any longer, and it all goes "poof"...
I'd say try, try again -- at least until you get a success.
My house rule in this case is that while the healing spell is being sustained to make it permanent (as per pg. 178), the same caster can attempt to add successes to it by casting the same spell again at the additional +2 TN for casting while sustaining. The first failure on these additional attempts will "lock" the healing at the current number of successes. And of course, if the caster knocks himself out with drain, then he can't sustain the healing any longer, and it all goes "poof"...
| QUOTE (Dakhran the Dark) |
| My house rule in this case is that while the healing spell is being sustained to make it permanent (as per pg. 178), the same caster can attempt to add successes to it by casting the same spell again at the additional +2 TN for casting while sustaining. The first failure on these additional attempts will "lock" the healing at the current number of successes. And of course, if the caster knocks himself out with drain, then he can't sustain the healing any longer, and it all goes "poof"... |
I don't mind the sound of that. I might try it out and see what it works like in game.
I used to increase the TN by two for every additional Spell cast, but decided to be a bit more lenient.
He gets to Treat and Treat and Treat till he succeeds. By the way what is it with all the Rules Lawyer stuff on this and the other thread?
BBB, p. 194:
"A character can only be magically healed once for any single set of injuries."
Thank goodness for that. If my characters knew they'd end the run either dead or with a really bad headache, running would be very, very different. Healing is already too kind, no reason to make it any sillier!
Edit: Didn't read the question, the treat spell FAILS. Hmm... By canon, I suppose you could technically keep trying. Just depends if you count '0' as a positive number : P
"A character can only be magically healed once for any single set of injuries."
Thank goodness for that. If my characters knew they'd end the run either dead or with a really bad headache, running would be very, very different. Healing is already too kind, no reason to make it any sillier!
Edit: Didn't read the question, the treat spell FAILS. Hmm... By canon, I suppose you could technically keep trying. Just depends if you count '0' as a positive number : P
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| BBB, p. 194: "A character can only be magically healed once for any single set of injuries." Thank goodness for that. If my characters knew they'd end the run either dead or with a really bad headache, running would be very, very different. Healing is already too kind, no reason to make it any sillier! |
Joe Bob goes on a run against Ares. While getting out of the car in the alley two blocks away from the team meet, he takes a Moderate Physical Wound from a gutter punk that took a fancy to Joe Bob's nice new long coat. (This counts as 'one single set of injuries' if Healed now, or before Joe Bob takes any more damage)
Not having yet met up with his close friend and team healer Tommy Skyfeather, he merely shrugs off the wound's effects. Joe Bob makes his way to the diner across the round from the unremarkable warehouse that was to be tonight's target and checks in with the rest of the team. As they were running late, he fails to mention his little scrape.
The team puts their plan in action, but in the inevitable ensuing carnage Joe Bob takes a Serious Physical Wound as a result of a close encounter with some of Ares heavier ordinance. Back at the car, Tommy Skyfeather has his work cut out for him when attempting to heal his heavily-cybered chummer. (The 'single set of injuries' now includes all Joe Bob's Physical damage, as he hasn't received treatment for the first wound.)
It all depends on how you rule that SINGLE set of injuries.
If you rules that the first wound is of a single set by itself and subsequent wound/s is of a different set, then the mage can heal one then the other. But if you count 1 set as all the wounds accumulated to that point, then it is another thing.
If you rules that the first wound is of a single set by itself and subsequent wound/s is of a different set, then the mage can heal one then the other. But if you count 1 set as all the wounds accumulated to that point, then it is another thing.
I think most GMs would rule that all damage taken up to a given point count as one "set" of injuries. It only gets differentiated if a character gets partially healed, then takes more damage.
First aid and healing can both be applies to that one set of injuries, though. Joe Bob, in the example, has 9 boxes of damage, a Serious wound plus three more boxes. However, first aid, when successful, reduces damage to the next wound level. This means that the damage drops to the lowest point for the next Damage Level (see Stages of Healing on pg. 127 of the main book). So first aid would bring Joe Bob down to 3 boxes of damage, which would be a lot easier for the shaman to try and heal. Which goes to show that first aid before healing can really make a difference.
First aid and healing can both be applies to that one set of injuries, though. Joe Bob, in the example, has 9 boxes of damage, a Serious wound plus three more boxes. However, first aid, when successful, reduces damage to the next wound level. This means that the damage drops to the lowest point for the next Damage Level (see Stages of Healing on pg. 127 of the main book). So first aid would bring Joe Bob down to 3 boxes of damage, which would be a lot easier for the shaman to try and heal. Which goes to show that first aid before healing can really make a difference.
| QUOTE |
| Edit: Didn't read the question, the treat spell FAILS. Hmm... By canon, I suppose you could technically keep trying. Just depends if you count '0' as a positive number : P |
If the spell fails, then the spellcaster can keep trying to use the Treat spell. The rules are very emphatic: "Successful use of either spell precludes the use of additional healing or treating spells, or of first aid." (pg. 127 of the main book).
| QUOTE (SR3 page 129 @ 3rd paragraph, 4th sentence) |
| Biotech can never reduce the damage level by more than one level. |
first aid (a specialization of biotech) has already been successfully used, ergo no more first aid can be applied.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| My house rule on this matter is that the same Spell cannot be successfully applied to any individual Wound, thereby making it possible to use Stabilize, Treat, Heal, and any other sundry Health spell to further a patient's recovery. All at a cost, of course. |
As a further house rule, I allow Ritual Healing to be attempted, generally at a hospital or the like. Basically, this means a hospital that has additional magical support can heal your wounds better and faster than one without. Yes, the same spell might be "repeated", but I consider the Ritual use to be different enough, and makes those magical hospitals very much in demand (and very expensive!).
Cain: I like that! I have a tendancy to sometimes neglect Ritual Sorcery for some reason. 
Glyph: While it's true that First Aid can be applied by Tommy, Joe Bob's low Essense will still make multiple successes with Health Spells difficult. If Joe Bob had received First Aid (bringing him to 1 box), then Treat on his first wound prior to being wounded again (only 1 success needed), it could have made a difference in the end.
Unfortunately, I happened to choose a set of numbers where it wouldn't, in fact make a difference (d'oh!). The newly healed Joe Bob gets wounded for a Serious wound (6 boxes). Tommy applies First Aid (bringing Joe Bob down to 3 boxes - just like the first example), then he still needs 3 successes. There are better examples out there. It was just pue misfortune that led me to pick those particular numbers
Glyph: While it's true that First Aid can be applied by Tommy, Joe Bob's low Essense will still make multiple successes with Health Spells difficult. If Joe Bob had received First Aid (bringing him to 1 box), then Treat on his first wound prior to being wounded again (only 1 success needed), it could have made a difference in the end.
Unfortunately, I happened to choose a set of numbers where it wouldn't, in fact make a difference (d'oh!). The newly healed Joe Bob gets wounded for a Serious wound (6 boxes). Tommy applies First Aid (bringing Joe Bob down to 3 boxes - just like the first example), then he still needs 3 successes. There are better examples out there. It was just pue misfortune that led me to pick those particular numbers
Fortune, of course, has posted the Canon description of the rule. Very interesting spread of answers. Thank you all for taking this Quiz.
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