So I admittedly haven't researched this alot and want to know specifically how this works:

Mage has a Elemental Manipulation spell (Lightning Touch) that requires Touch to work. In order to land this on a target it's my understanding he'd need to get one success on the Melee attack to touch then the spell goes off.

Does that mean he gets to take 2 complex actions (one for the Melee Attack and one for casting the spell) in one Combat Phase? Or does he cast the spell (Phase 1), then touch his target (Phase 2). Or vice versa? Or am I overlooking something about touch-spells?

Thanks.

The melee "attack" and the act of casting the spell are considered to be in one complex action => Melee test at reduced TN (-1). If you succeed to touch the target you instantly resolve the spellcasting test with all necessary steps ...

These make good spells for magician adepts who also have improved combat ability: unarmed combat Rolling scads of dice to hit and being able to shock, burn, freeze, blind, etc. due to elemental effects can make a fun character. Just go back to DnD and look at all those low level touch based spells and remake them: Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, Burning Hands, etc.

Thanks for the clarity, that's how we've been resolving it.

Yeah the mage is question is using a sword (also a wepaon focus) as a Fetish with his line of Elemental Spells, so it gives them some dramatic flare as well.

Here's the kicker. The spells have lowerd drain (for the touch and fetish requirement), the weapon foci add their rating in dice to your skill test and the damn thing has a +1 reach! Semi-muchkin, yeah since the only real drawback seems to be without the sword they're worthless.

Hmm, good points. I'll have to have a closer look at how "touch" is defined.

I thought the shock gloves only required a touch? I mean you've only got to lay a palm on them, don't you? Or is it triggered by a sharp blow? In which case kiss your smartlinked assault rifle goodbye next time you fire on full auto wearing one of those gloves.

Actually, Shock Gloves have a wire mesh covering (BBB), so any part of them can be used to deliver the shock. BBB does say it is triggered by impact, so a mere touch won't be enough.

Shock Hand - the cybernetic version is superior - 12 charges, higher damage and cybernetically turned on/off. It however, is limited to either knuckles or palm.

I want that for the wrist.

Just try and slap the cuffs on fragger.

Can't an active focus be used to target ritual sorcery? If that's the case it seems pretty clear that a bound focus is considered to be a part of the mage for purposes of spells. Using it to deliver a touch spell seems a logical extension of this.

From a game-balance perspective, I don't see any problem with using a really expensive item that you had to pay a bunch of karma to use in the first place to deliver a touch spell.

I would not allow a weapon focus to be used but as it is also the fetish linked to the spells it would make sense the fetish is not just linked to the mage it is part of the spell. I dislike granting the reach but at least you’re not a troll with a pole arm.

Edward

BBB pg 178 "Some spells, particularly health spells, require the caster to touch the intended target in order for the spell to work. To touch an unwilling target, the caster must make a normal unarmed attack as part of the Complex Action of Spell casting (see Melee Combat, p. 120). The target number for the unarmed attack has a -1 modifier, since the caster only needs to touch the target."

Unarmed = no weapon focus.

Edit: K....no weapon foci with reach. :Edit

Hardliner weapon focus uses the unarmed skill (or martial art).

*damn* ... Necro now you took away my fun ... I wanted to wait just one more posting before making that point ...

Btw. Herald ... Guess why I said that I wounldn't prohibit the use of gloves when fulfilling the "touch"-requirement ... *g*

Ahhh I can see it now... Headbanging Rapunzel Rocker kills 20 with Touch spell!

What would be the effects of a mage quickening cripple limb to his hard liner or shock gloves (hell, even just normal gloves)? I'm making the assumption that s/he won't be affected by their own spell, here. Would you simply keep a list of the successes and compare them to any targets you strike as appropriate, or would you rule that the gloves would only affect the person the spell was originally cast on? And if the latter would that imply that you couldn't quicken it in the first place without someone to beat on while you're doing it? If you allowed it, what would be the duration of the effect on a target struck? Would they simply remain crippled until the quickened spell on the gloves was dispelled?

I'm just thinking - gloves with cripple limb quickened, and then using a touch range damaging manip spell as well would be really horrible. If the target remained crippled unless the glove was dispelled I think it would be more of a liability than anything else unless you had time to cleanse everyone you fight, but I'm curious as to what people think.

Quickening wouldn't work there ... You have to explicitly cast the spell at its target before quickening it ... Cripple Limb is a spell against living targets and your glove is neither a living being nor could you cripple any of its limbs

[edit]Nor could you transfer the spell effect from the glove to anything that touches the glove, even if you could cast it against the glove ... Otherwise anyone who touches a person under the effect of "cripple limb" would instantly also be under that effect of the spell ...[/edit]

If you get the old anchoring rules (or get them past the GM), you could make a cripple limb to trigger every time your glove smacks into something. You may even be able to limit it to combat and not affect yourself.

No, I meant quickening, I was just curious to see what people would say. I personally would have gone with Cochise's interpretation had a player come to me with it.

I think I will continue to allow him to use his surrent combination, but will just need to enforce all the extras that make weilding a magical sword in public illegal. Lone Mages doing drive-by's, good luck getting a longsword into a night-club, etc.

The focus & reach + touch-spell combination is nasty, but I think I can keep this runner on his toes.

Thanks again for all the feedback.