You missed his point. Attunement becomes the best option for getting the lowest TN in the game at all ranges using that combo. A smartlink is 2/3/3/5. A laser sight with magnification 3 is 3/3/3/3. Attunement with a laser sight and magnification 3 (a 0.25 point power) is 2/2/2/2 for everything up to a shotgun (or an SMG with an extended range laser sight).

Unless I'm mistaking, it also works with Ambidexterity. Thus with Ambidexterity 4, two SMGs and Improved Sense (Vision Magnification) your base TN is always going to be 3/3 for every shot at all ranges.

No, I didn't miss his point. You missed mine.

I just typed up, and then deleted, a five-paragraph explanation of my point. It was all about how people are knee-jerk overreacting to new Adept abilities, how they're knee-jerk overreacting about "the best" new combos, about how they're carrying on like the game is ruined now and the name should be changed to MojoRun. I explained that any overspecialized character is inherently weak, explained that there's always someone or something better, and went into detail about the sort of karma costs required to make the "best" twin-smg ambidextrous submachinegun ninja, who is still a very weak character when expected to do anything but shoot people.

And then I remembered no one would read it except for the people who already get it, so it was wasted effort.

Go on thinking a few new Adept gimmicks break the game, go on thinking Mundanes are heading down the path of the dinosaur, go on thinking the game is ruined now. The rest of us will just keep having fun.

Overspecialization carries weakness. Game-breaking occurs when one does not have to overspecialize to get a massive bonus.

~J

But they're high tech military-ie *silent* SMGs.

Like in Rainbow Six, the powerhouse of realism in the video game world!

Clackity clack clack!

Finally had a chance to get on.

[edited] to figure Kage's correction.

Good character Funk, not as min-maxed as a couple I've been sent and well rounded enough to make most teams (yeah Ozzie, I know you're reading this, and I know he doesn't have Athletics but get over it nto everybody on a team needs it), plus he's quite close to the "Chessman" fixer I made myself (minus the combat cyber put plus headware). Nice of you not to have added the tailored pheremones.

You’ve come up with close to standard Speakers Way adept I’ve seen people make for playtesting. You’ve also used Edges/Flaws to enhance the modifiers, which is cool, though less common than you would think. The Good Lookin and Knows It and the Good Reputation complement each other well.

The former works well during a run, since you won’t be using it on regular contacts (it only works on “initial contacts” and your list of contacts are all people you’ve met before) giving you that –2/-1 (depending on sex) modifier. If you’re doing a strict reading of the book, Good Reputation gives you a -2 in all Social situations (personally I rule that it only applies when people actually know your reputation). This means you’ll be getting a -5 modifier (including the Kinesics modifier) to contact-related Social Tests and that -6 (or -7, by the book,) when encountering new individuals during a run (depending on sex). I’ve checked the characters that came my way and only one actually had more than one Social Edge.

Personally, (as in my game) I don’t have a problem with the former, since in Negotiations it’ll be offset by social modifiers (asking more than a Johnson is willing to pay qualifies as Annoying at least) which still places the target number for a standard Johnson (per SR3 or MrJLBB) at 2 / 3 as opposed to a standard face’s (using the same Edges/Flaws) 5 / 6. However in legwork the modifiers actually do make an impact especially when combined with the extra Etiquette dice (although Mundane faces can still get at least -2, possibly -3, to the same tests)

On the other hand, the extra 4 dice you roll does make quite an impact in all tests given the modified target numbers, which is why I advocated a significantly higher pp cost. Considering the possible number of dice applicable to mundane faces tops out at 8 or 9 (assuming same base skill and no specialization, the adept could up both too) the lowered target number makes a 3-4 difference in total successes on average. And that's considering that you didn't make the mistake some people I've seen have, of pumping simply Negotiation or simply Etiquette.

One of the reasons I wanted to try this exercise was to see if your take on an "average" Speaker would bend things beyond what I already thought. It does. Mainly because I (and the playtest characters I've seen) hadn't stacked those Edges exactly in the same way (used one but not both, although some had Friendly Face rather than Good Lookin).

As I said above I will be asking Rob to increase the cost of IA: Social Skills in future errata to my proposed 0.75 or 1 pp) or dropping them entirely.

And FYI, just so you won't make assumptions next time, by "crippling gaesa" I meant the "works only at night" sort, stuff that would hamper the character significantly in his line of work.

That's the second level of Good Rep. It gives him -2 to all Social TNs.

~J

Thanks, Kage. Mistook it for level 1, edited the relevant figures above.

Means a min-maxed mundane Face can actually build up to a -5 modifier if certain Edges come into play in a given situation (Good Lookin, Friendly Face and Good Reputation 2) - though I've honestly still to see a character go that way. Given the 6-7 gap in SR mechanics I still think the Speaker adept's additional Kinesics modifier isn't the deal breaker here.

What does cause problems is the additional dice from IA and the way those affect average successes.

In a nutshell my problem comes from the adept gaining universal target modifiers and universal bonus dice. If their powers granted more situational abilities (like Commanding Voice), I'd have likely backed them up completely. But as written, Kinesics and Improved Ability completely overwhelm every other option in the game without being a serious hamper to a specialist character.

While I agree with you regarding the "universal bonus dice" (which is why IA: Social Skills was a late addition), I don't think Kinesics is a major problem even if someone purposefully goes after all the Social Modifiers (like I said a normal Face could get a -3 to -5 modifier anyway without any powers).

There's a point where the negative modifiers tap out and it becomes an issue of the number of potential successes, which in turn is where IA: Social Skills at the current price unbalances the equation.