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Cable
I've read over the section on drugs and steriods over and over again, and I can't find any fault in them. Everybody, PCs and NPCs should be regular steroid users. What am I missing?
heliocentric
I don't have the rules in front of me at the moment, but as I recall there are some side-effects that need to be role-played out. Yeah steroids will help you from a purely systemic standpoint, but violent mood swings are not good in a game where stealth and discresion are more important than shooting up as many targets as possible.

Anyone remember Jim Carry's female bodybuilder character on In Living Color?
Bigity
Probably the tolerance build up, but not sure off-hand.
Nikoli
You could also use rules similair to the over amped initiative rules for simulation the "roid rage" where the amount of str gained from the drugs decrease your chance to go off in stressful non-combat situations
Modesitt
They still use the normal drug addiction rules, aka "Once you become addicted, your body falls apart". While in the case of steroids this isn't as bad as normal drugs(They lower the cost of raising body), it still sucks.

Sure, the TN for the tests is pretty low, but consider that it says 'heavy doses'. That may mean multiple times per day, depending on your GM. You'd be addicted in no time.
Tanka
QUOTE (M&M @ p. 118)
Continued steroid use may result in adverse effects such as acne, hallucinations, aggressive behavior, hair loss, sterility, impotence, muscle spasms and hypertension--among others.  Gamemasters can stimulate these effects with appropriate Flaws and modifiers, or perhaps even with occasional Stress damage.

Er... No faults?
Lindt
Drugs are bad, mmkay?
Teulisch
can you get acne with dermal armor? (im pretty sure you cant with a cyberskull).

the best way to use this stuff, would be to see a doctor and get some advice, or slot a medical knowsoft. this would justify proper IC knowedge of doseage and risks. A high body would be very helpfull, and some of the problems may be overcome by bioware.

Compared to how muscle replacement or muscle augmentation can frag up your system, steroids are actualy a pretty good alternative. They dont require invasive surgury, you just need to work out for a few weeks. For someone with strength 3, they could get +2 strength for 9 weeks of workout + 9 karma (~2 months), and quit before tolerance became an issue. the bonus stacks with all cyber and bio (though bio does have a maximum), and a bod of 3 will on average see 2 sucesses on the adiction roll.

recognizing and treating addiction quickly would be important (have one of your chummers spot for ya at the gym, and keep an eye on you, callin your street doc if theres a problem)
KarmaInferno
Your package shrinks.

I'd say that would be a pretty good deterrant.

But I'd be wrong, apparantly...


-karma
Bigity
Two Words: Mr. Stud Implant.

Ok, three words.
mmu1
QUOTE (KarmaInferno)
Your package shrinks.

I'd say that would be a pretty good deterrant.

But I'd be wrong, apparantly...


-karma

For normal people? Sure.

For people who don't mind replacing large portions of their bodies with mechanical parts to the point of nearly losing their own humanity, I don't see how it'd really merit very much consideration.
Tanka
QUOTE (mmu1)
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Nov 18 2004, 02:28 PM)
Your package shrinks.

I'd say that would be a pretty good deterrant.

But I'd be wrong, apparantly...


-karma

For normal people? Sure.

For people who don't mind replacing large portions of their bodies with mechanical parts to the point of nearly losing their own humanity, I don't see how it'd really merit very much consideration.

Hey, even cyberfreaks gotta have a love life!
tjn
Like all things, if abused, steroids are dangerous.

What people forget is that we create them naturally. The reason they work so well to promote muscle growth is because our own bodies create them to do just that. However, after the human body gets out of it's teenage years, our production fades.

Or didja think it was just magic that teenagers had pimples and an irritable personality? That's a gross simplification, but the connection is still there.

People, with the proper supervision (doctors), can use steriods to recover from injuries and don't become the spazes associated with steroid abuse. But at most, this is limited to about one month out of a year or more to avoid the more permanent effects.

If the PC has access to the proper knowledge and equipment, a two or three week stint to bulk up a point would not have those adverse long term effects. Only with prolonged abuse and trying to jump several points should a GM start applying those Flaws.
Tanka
Don't forget the upped testosterone, thusly attributing to more body-hair/facial-hair growth (on women as well).
Adarael
QUOTE
Two Words: Mr. Stud Implant.

"All night, every night, and she'll never know. Also available in 'Midnight Lady.' +2 to Seduction rolls."

I love my CP2020 silliness.

Seriously, though, if a character starts using steroids very heavily I'd start applying stress on any bioware or delicate cyberware the character had involved unless they got it serviced very regularly. Why? Despite being biological, it's been pretty well established that bioware is a foreign object and can be damaged by shifts in body chemistry/integrity, which is precisely what steroids change. Furthermore, if the character has Betaware, or god forbid, Deltaware, both of those are tailored for an individual's biological patterns and hormonal mix, so as to not clash. If you start messing with that natural balance, they're going to get messed up, period. That's one of the reasons you have to service 'ware - to adjust them to the minor changes in body makeup/rhythym over time.

Furthermore, just from an RP perspective, who wants to go back to being a teenager? I'd rather get shot in the knees.
Arethusa
QUOTE (tjn)
Like all things, if abused, steroids are dangerous.

What people forget is that we create them naturally. The reason they work so well to promote muscle growth is because our own bodies create them to do just that. However, after the human body gets out of it's teenage years, our production fades.

Or didja think it was just magic that teenagers had pimples and an irritable personality? That's a gross simplification, but the connection is still there.

People, with the proper supervision (doctors), can use steriods to recover from injuries and don't become the spazes associated with steroid abuse. But at most, this is limited to about one month out of a year or more to avoid the more permanent effects.

If the PC has access to the proper knowledge and equipment, a two or three week stint to bulk up a point would not have those adverse long term effects. Only with prolonged abuse and trying to jump several points should a GM start applying those Flaws.

I think the oversimplification is a little dangerous hereó especially the "explanation" of teenage acne and behavior patterns.

Anyway, artificial steroids, even taken under doctor supervision, are really fucking dangerous. Bone decalcification is becoming a serioud problem with the overprescription of steroids, and beware any doctor that is willing to prescirbe them you without trying pretty much anything else first. The complifications from steroid use, mcuh less abuse, are huge.
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Teulisch @ Nov 18 2004, 12:35 PM)
can you get acne with dermal armor? (im pretty sure you cant with a cyberskull).

Uh... it's a cyberskull, not a cyberhead (scalp acne is a bitch).

I imagine DA would keep it from appearing where the armor is, but AFAIK that doesn't include the face.
tjn
QUOTE (Arethusa @ Nov 18 2004, 05:42 PM)
Anyway, artificial steroids, even taken under doctor supervision, are really fucking dangerous.† Bone decalcification is becoming a serioud problem with the overprescription of steroids, and beware any doctor that is willing to prescirbe them you without trying pretty much anything else first.† The complifications from steroid use, mcuh less abuse, are huge.

You're confusing corticosteroids with anabolic steroids. They're different things. The steroids you are thinking of are more for reducing inflamation and have been used for arthritis. Which is where I believe this "decalcification" scare has come from. If a doctor gives something that tends to bleech calcium to someone already at risk for osteoporosis, it shouldn't be that shocking to see that the individual actually develops osteoporosis.

And again, anything is dangerous if abused. You can overdose on water if you drank enough.

Taking anabolic steroids for a single "cycle" is unlikely to have lasting damage. The user will have liver, reproductive, and circulatory side effects on top of a increased aggressive and irritable personality, but these are usually not dramatic enough (IMO) to cause a game effect and they usually fade after the individual stops taking the steroids.

If the player insists to continue, then start applying the Flaws, but assuming that anabolic steroids will automatically turn people in roid freaks is just as ignorant as the gym rats who assume that it's perfectly harmless.
Kagetenshi
Overdose is a incorrect word with regard to water. Not counting mechanical damage from excessive consumption you can dilute and excrete too many necessary minerals, but that's just about it.

~J
tjn
It's exceptionally rare but like anything taken in excess, it can be a problem.

Quick googling.
Kagetenshi
I still disagree with the term overdose, but that's pretty much what I was talking about, sodium dilution.

~J
toturi
I believe the term is drowning?
Wounded Ronin
Wow, you can be Duke Nukem in SR3! Hooray for 'roids!
Voran
Hmm. Though if you can infer that Duke actually gets alot of play with all the women in his storylines.....he's probably not on roids. nyahnyah.gif
Cable
So what we're saying is that the side effects must be roleplayed out. so, depending on the player may never happen. GM must watch carefully.
Wounded Ronin
Dude, it could be your excuse to derail the game by flipping and punching the Stuffer Stack clerk!

"I punch Wanda, putting all my combat pool into it."

"WHAT!?"

"You said that if I wanted to have a roided-up character, I'd need to role play it. In this case, my character is taking out his sexual frustration by randomly punching Wanda."

"NOOO! He used the RP card! We have no chance to survive make our time!"
KarmaInferno
So, shrunken wee-wee, mood swings, pimples, and possible heart conditions.

Any other penalties?


-karma
Cain
Attribute Stress at the GM's discretion. That alone should keep most munchkins in check.
Botch
QUOTE (tjn)
It's exceptionally rare but like anything taken in excess, it can be a problem.

Quick googling.

FYI - During Britain's absolutely uninformed mass panic about Extasy during the mid-late nineties one girl was killed by drinking too much water. When she came home her parents force fed her water because the media had said that E causes dehydration and overheating. 8 hours later the girl was dead from salt depletion and everybody blamed the EVIL DRUG PUSHER AND HIS DRUGS, who turned out to be 17 and had got the pills at her insistance.
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