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Cynic project
It doesn't work that way. If the UCAS says "you must provide sales records for barrels" then the companies will, or else the barrels are not legal and it's illegal to carry them around on UCAS soil. Also, if you have an unregistered barrel you go to jail anyway. Nothing gets accomplished. As if it worked as noted by bitbasher above.

So, really what is the point of pointing out that the Mega corps are not part of the national jurisdiction? Megas are their own countries. Pure and simple. Would the Sioux have to tell the UCAS all the details about their barrels? If not then, why would say ZIC? It is an AA.
Kagetenshi
Eh?

~J
Cynic project
Why would the AA or AAA have less rights than a forgien power? UCAS should have no more right or legal power over the selling habits of Ares, than it does over the CAS. If I went to an Ares store and bought a gun. Said gun would be legal in Ares controlled land. Even if it is illegal in the UCAS. So if something is legal under the laws set up by Ares I could legally buy it,right?

Take gun ownership in the US and Europe. I can own an AK 47 in the US, but I sure as hell couldn't own one in England. Does that mean that I can't buy one in the US, or that I would be breaking a law if I took it to England? In other word I can legally buy whatever is legal in Nova-tech,and no one is breaking the law, but when I go to the UCAS with items not legal in the UCAS,I am breaking the law in the UCAS. Nova-tech is no breaking the law if it sells me a tank, I am braking the law if I bring it to UCAS... Novatech would only be breaking the law if it helped me to smuggle said item out of their jurisdiction.Am I right or wrong?
Kagetenshi
I believe thatís correct, yes. Why?

Also, keep in mind that X Corp has to get the item into its territory, unless it is fabricated on-site.

~J
Cynic project
Well, I always want to learn more about the finer points of this game. The rules and laws controling Megas are large parts of this game.

By the way, as I recall only parties have used Nuke, and one was Ares.
Kagetenshi
I believe that the only three entities to have confirmedly used nuclear weapons are the former US, Israel, and Ares. North Korea tries and fails, as does SAIM.

~J
Crimsondude 2.0
India and Pakistan did, too, according to SOTA64 (I already bitched about this in another thread).

Extraterritoriality also applies to corporate transports, so you can drive an Ares Arms truck from Spartanburg, South Carolina to a Weapons World retailer in Pittsburgh without breaking any laws because it never leaves Ares jurisdiction.

And the UCAS, for example, can then regulate commercial activity between megacorp property and UCAS jurisdiction because it's analogous to international trade and commerce.
Kanada Ten
What thread was this supposed to link with?
Hasaku
This one: Tips For All Shadowrunners
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
Extraterritoriality also applies to corporate transports, so you can drive an Ares Arms truck from Spartanburg, South Carolina to a Weapons World retailer in Pittsburgh without breaking any laws because it never leaves Ares jurisdiction.

proof.gif

~J
Kanada Ten
Double Exposure, Corporate Download, and others. Do you want a page number? That will take me some time.
Kagetenshi
If you get a chance, a quote would be nice, thanks. I really need to find where my books vanished to dead.gif

~J
Crimsondude 2.0
Corp Download, first chapter. I'll let K10 give you a page number, since good faith apparently no longer exists around here.
Kagetenshi
Nope, I trust him. Again, lost books, and I'm interested in the wording. If I didn't trust him, I'd probably have been less polite. As it stands, I'm asking a favour, not making a challenge.

~J
toturi
That truck needs be clearly marked as Ares or any of its subsidiaries. It is kinda like a Diplomatic Immunity.
DrJest
Just a minor point - corps are extraterritorial; much as they would like to believe otherwise, they are not (with the exception of Aztlan) sovereign nations, and have none of the international status of governments. Although they have the right to behave pretty much as they like within their own compounds, they have much less legal clout when the mess spreads over the line.

Also note that to purchase an unregistered barrel in the manner described, you would have to go to a major Ares compound to get it, since extraterritoriality is limited in its application. Or to put it another way, if you bought it at the Weapons World in your local mall, you and Ares both are breaking UCAS law. If you bought your AK-47 in London from an American government agent (passed over the cash, wrapped it and walked away) you and he would both be in deep doo-doo. You'd go to prison, he'd presumably claim diplomatic immunity (something corps cannot do) and be deported.
toturi
Any compound clearly marked as Ares or as a subsidiary of Ares is extraterritorial. Therefore if the Weapons World was marked "Weapons World, a subsidiary of Ares Macrotechnology", it would be extraterritorial. p10-11 Corp Download.

In other words, Ares can't break UCAS (or any other countries') law on Ares soil. And any place where Ares does official business is Ares soil.
DrJest
I was under the (potentially mistaken) impression that there were limits to that, based on the size of the area and its demarcation from the rest of the world?
Fortune
Nope ... just the 'clearly marked' stipulation. Bear in mind that it has to list the parent Corp entitled to extra-territoriality. Stuffer Shacks are not entitled to claim extra-territoriality because they are not, as far as I know, clearly labelled as an Aztechnology company.
toturi
Unless marked as "Stuffer Shacks, a proud member of the Aztechnology family".
Fortune
Right, but I believe it is stated (or implied) somewhere that isn't the case with Stuffer Shacks.
DrJest
QUOTE
Stuffer Shacks are not entitled to claim extra-territoriality because they are not, as far as I know, clearly labelled as an Aztechnology company.


Wow, and all this time I thought I was avoiding Stuffer Shack for aesthetic reasons, when it really turned out to be my innate Detect Evil ability... wink.gif
Fortune
Dude, Aztchnology is pretty much the main supplier of all kinds of foodstuffs for the middle class and under, at least in North America. They have a pretty good public image to the non-shadow-associated.
DrJest
You know, I played a Werewolf game where a Pentex subsidiary was inserting dormant Bane spirits into their latest chocolate bar; majorly addictive and spiritually poisoning in one fell swoop.

Suddenly I feel the urge to rewrite it for the SR universe... Pentex -> Aztech, Bane Spirits -> Blood Spirits... now I just need to decide why (apart from sheer generalise evilness, which even I admit Aztech are too canny to indulge in) cyber.gif
Shockwave_IIc
QUOTE (Fortune)
Dude, Aztchnology is pretty much the main supplier of all kinds of foodstuffs for the middle class and under, at least in North America. They have a pretty good public image to the non-shadow-associated.

Does it not state somewhere that like 90% or something of all (household) consumer goods are in some way related to Aztechnology?

I found that somewhat scary when i first read it.
Kagetenshi
Aztechnology is Wal-Mart, Johnson and Johnson, Kraft, 7/11, and the company that makes the really cheap ramen all rolled into one, plus a bit.

~J
jezryaldar
Something to consider... While corps can pretty much get away with what they want, there still has to be some rule of law or court system where the majority of the people think or feel they can get justice. This could lead to lots of out of court settlements. Without some kind of government shell in place (providing services as well as being a HUGE consumer themselve *** Your tax dollars at work***) so some kind of token appearance would be given to the corporate system.

Actaully, the makings of a good campaign would be someone (or someones) making the decision that "sacrificing" a large company to give the public the idea that they are empowered could be kind of fun. And if played right, someone could make a killing shorting the stock....
jezryaldar
RL Kraft is currently a wholly owned subsidary of the Altair (SP??) Group. Guess who that is?? If you answerd Phillip Morris you get the gold star. I couldnt tell if Phillip Morris bought Kraft and then changed their name, or what happened there.

Now for the next question, who owns the Altair group. While I couldnt track down the majority, I did find it interesting that a large institutional investment bank owned like 6% of them, 10% of target, 6% of Lowes and the list went on.
Kagetenshi
Mmm, Phillip Morris. Always fun realizing how close to Aztechnology we already are.

~J
Crimsondude 2.0
PM changed their names shortly after paying out a fat wad of cash in the tobacco settlement--an amount that was equal to one year's revenue ($72B). They've owned Kraft for years. And you want RL corp intrigue, read the book (the book!) Barbarians at the Gates about the PM takeover of RJR Nabisco.

RJR Nabisco, btw, just happens to be the corp that I've always analogized with JRJ International, one of the founding members of the Corp Court, a permanent member, integrated later in Fuchi, and then bought by Richard Villiers ourtight and forms the legal basis for Novatech and its seat on the CC.
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