I've been kicking around an idea for reducing obscenely high TN#'s (like those for hacking credsticks in SSG). One option is, as the GM, lower the number itself, but I want to do something that reflects "experience" that characters gather throughout their careers. One option I'm considering is a "temporary burning" of appropriate pool dice for lowering the numbers. It works by removing two dice for every -1 to the TN. These dice would then refresh as normal and be usable for the next one. What does everybody think of this: crazy? good? too few dice? too many?

Crazy and no, money should be hard to forge, that's its point.

Is there a limit on how low the pool dice can lower the TN? Without a minimum, I might be inclined to burn dice on getting low TNs all the time.

It's called "karma pool". Repeat with me "kaaaaarma.... pooooool...."

I am undecided about the concept, but make it use up actuial skill dice, and similarly reduce the amout of pool dice that can be applied.

There were some earlier discussions about being able to trade karma pool in for permanently lowered difficulties in the previous 'too much karma pool thread' that you might want to look at.

Allowing combat pool to lower TNs is not advisable. (Imagine 12 dice throwing, smartlinked, pistol adept, with a combot pool of 12)

The problem with your house rule that I see isnt so much one of balance (though that might be an issue), but, rather, that it does *nothing* for those skills that lack dice pools.

A house rule I am experimenting with, which is extrapolated from the "taking aim" action, is to provide a -1 TN mod for doubling the base time for an action. This can be applied multiple times. So, for example, normally, rewiring a maglock keypad has a target number equal to the maglock rating, and takes a base time of 60 seconds to accomplish. This base time remains the same regardless of the rating. If, however, you had some spare time, by spending 120 seconds you could get a -1 TN mod. Spending 240 seconds (looking over the wiring cautiously and doublechecking yourself) would provide a -2 TN mod. And so on. The total TN reduction can not exceed 1/2 the appropriate skill rating (round down), or 1/4 the skill rating (round down) if you are defaulting.

You could try a system where spending extra time lowers the Target Number. I would say if they are willing to spend four times the allotted time the TN is half, but never below 10. This makes it a little more realistic as when you are not rushed you can notice your mistakes and take time to plan.

My two suggestions:

First, I personally don't like the idea, especially when the only other even vaguely similar thing in SR suffers much more (can only be done at base TNs above 12, can only reduce to 8, and permanently burns karma pool).

Second, a more descriptive thread title would be nice. Something mentioning what exactly the house rule pertains to, or something of that nature. Just to keep in mind in the future.

~J

I don't mind the 'doubling the time taken' idea.

i'd require each further reduction double the current time taken. if the base time is 30 minutes, you could spend an hour and get -1 TN, 2 hours for -2, 4 hours for -3, and so on.

I don't think that incredibly high TNs should be reduced. Incredibly high rolls sometimes happen, and high TNs should be hard.

You can get miracles just fine with vanilla shadowrun, so I don't think the house rule is necessary.

pah! i have no time to read your filthy words, i am important.

I'm pretty sure there was an edit in there, as I distinctly remember the first reading to be take double the time to halve the TN, which would be broken.

~J

In response to the original post, personally, I wouldn't allow that house rule. As others have stated, money should be hard to hack/forge. If it weren't, every decker or rigger should start out as a forger. The hell with Street Index, just make as much money as needed.

18 dice, TN 20: 0.069444 expected successes.

6 dice, TN 14: 0.13888 expected successes.

Your chances just doubled.

~J

Kage, you are correct.

I really screwed that post because I was comparing his rule to the H-N rule in my mind.

In the H-N rule, if I had 12 KP, and 12 SP, I would have a TN20 beat down to a TN8 and have 18 dice to roll against it.

personally though.
I don't like either rule.

Neat idea, but I don't see where the TN system is broke really if the reasoning is based in experience.

[edit]wait...a small voice in my head is telling me it remembers the H-N rule saying that you can't use other pools to aid in the roll if you use the H-N KP burning....hm....damn not having books around.[/edit]

That's inaccurate. I don't mind Hooper-Nelson because you are permanently burning part of the debt the universe owes your character on doing something really cool. It isn't something you can really factor into your planning, because it will only be a good idea in exceptional circumstances.

~J

exactly.

I wasn't even hitting on the one or multiple uses yet.

That issue alone makes the rule more dangerous.
It re-generates every combat round.

I guess the way I see it.
If your direct problem is high TN's and their relation to characters you think should be represented as more experienced and skilled characters at the task and thus able to accomplish higher TN's, then I would step back and look at other ideas that are simpler.

For one. Try modifying the maximum Skill level allowed.
For a human, perhaps the highest level allowed could be 10.

If memory serves me right (been a while since I've bothered to worry about a skill over 6) there is a rule to go over racial maximums by a cost of double or something to the maximum level of half again the racial maximum.
But I could be mistaken on that...again...don't have my books right now.