So I've been researching vehicle design using the Rigger 3 rules and have a few questions and observations maybe you all can help me with.

When designing a vehicle, you use the Design Points (DP) to calc the Design Cost, but use actualy $$ for Customizations, that much is clear. Also, some items cost less CF or $$ when done at design time vs. customization. What I have noticed is adding a "security" item like Vehicle armor, Turrents or fixed weapons would undoubtedly up the Street Index (SI) to 2+ making it more expensive to buy a more or less "stock" security vehicle.

I know my players will want to make some vehicles (since the R3 offers limited designs and lacks some basic types) and I am anticipating them buying "stock" vehicles and then customizing them to avoid high initial SI of security-class vehicles. The trade off is now they must content with not only SI/Availability, Time and Equipment needed. Is there something else I am missing in the DP vs. Custom approach?

What about custom vehicles at chargen? I am considering using the Availability 8 rules for customizations as long as they have the $$ to do what they want (with GM approval of coarse) since chargen time if rather interperative.

Any other thoughts or experiences with R3 vehicle design?

Thanks.

You aren't missing anything, but keep in mind that a vehicle with 11 points of Armor and no turrets would be quite odd. Make them explain exactly what market segment the vehicle caters to, and if they come up with a good idea, spread it around in the game.

Customization at chargen can make quite a powerful vehicle, but as long as you keep some oversight on the process, everything should be just dandy.

~J

Depends. When you play with the cust. its an options package. But not all the toys are options. *confused at that too* Hmm.

Ok. You make a basic car from the base designs. Now, you can either offer this car as a stripper (a sign of a cheep, shitty car), or have standered options (AC, ABS, floor mats) that drive up the price. Then you have options (leather, bigger engine, Nerps+) that cost even more above the base options.

And if that dosent make sense, ponder what the base model of the modified car would have, use that with the DP system, and then charge ¥¥ for the rest.

Erh..... active conflict avoidance?

I'm fairly certain that concealed vehicle armor is a concealibility of 8. From the inside of the vehicle.

The TN is 9-(Armor Rating/3, rounded down). It's pretty easy to tell, all in all; aforementioned Armor 11 would be at TN 6, which a few passers-by would easily get at least one of. It is also probably rather trivial to tell from inside, unless you're sufficiently distracted as to fail to realize that there is rather a lot less room inside the vehicle than it looks like there should be.

~J

Actually if I was needing to be in a car with 11 points of armor, Id WANT to know it was built like a tank. Once you get to 12, well the car drives like a mule, and its not gonna be all that hard to see what your packing...

Of course if you know the right people just paint it a bright color and cast Armor 12 and quicken it, but then you run into that whole automatic fire still tearing you up problem. Or am ove analyzing this.

Note that armored vehicles are perfectly legal, and that it's impossible to tell how armored a vehicle is just by looking at it (you only know that it's armored or not). There's plenty of standard, everyday family vehicles that have standard (non-concealed) armor such as the Volkswagon Superkombi.

The Concealability aspect is mostly an aesthetic issue and, even just a cursory attempt to conceal it is better than being obvious about it if you want to have a remote shot of driving through a nice part of town without being pulled over and questioned.

Standard armor may be legal, but that doesn't mean you won't be hasseled about it if it looks suspicious.

Well for one the armor on the car is gonna help a LOT more (any weapon with a base power lower the 11 dosent nick the paint). That and the armor spell is blue, and glowy, and much more 'not-legal' then 8" of rolled steel on the inside of your car.

Right, though if someone got a lucky glance I might clue them in as to how much.

Actually an armor of 11 means any normal weapon with a base power lower than 23 and/or not at least moderate wound level cannot hurtr you.

Actually, it covers 23 as well. When you halve the Power, you round down.

~J

Even a Light Pistol with AV ammo will have no problem with it, however, since it reduces the vehicle's armor in half without being affected by the halving/power reduction effect of standard ammunitions.

So very true.

~J

True, but even halved, the light pistol would be taking a -5 from the armor left. Nothing too terrible until you consider the burst SMG with AV.

Unless a rigger is actively in the vehicle, it doesn't really matter. A vehicle all by its lonesome is toast against anyone with a decent Combat Skill. Though if they do, chances are they loaded something more like a Shotgun or Heavy Pistol with the AV ammo rather than a Light Pistol -- it's just that a Light Pistol [/i]can[/i] damage even a heavily armored vehicle without a problem.

I'm not sure about the whole vehicle design thing. I was able to design a pretty badass helo for only 400k. Not to say the rules don't have a use it's just that it is a munchkin magnet.

Again, having something added at design means A) you need to defend its existence in the world and B) it will exist in that form owned by others as well.

Solstice: that helo would have an Avail of 20 before other modifications, and would thus be solidly unavailable at chargen.
~J

200k would still be 10 and unavailable. 160k is the magic number.

Lindt, AV ammo is not staged down, nor does it have its Power reduced.

~J

Even at 200k it would still run an avil of 10. Lets face it, helios arnt exactly cheep nor easy to get.

Barring anything else, I just like playing with the rules, to see what I can get, because after the 27th americar, I really wanna see something else on the side of the road.

160k is only the magic number pre-Rigger 3 Revised, or assuming that it's a basic civilian vehicle. Security and military vehicles get a lump Availability modifier slapped on them now. If I recall the modifiers correctly (I don't own R3R), the magic number is 40k for anything that can be described as a security vehicle, and military vehicles aren't available at chargen at all.

Sadly, this means that my railgun-equipped miniblimp drone can no longer be shoved through that loophole.

This might be a semi-hijack, but has anyone tried to design Battletech Mechs using the Vehicle Design system? I did a search on the keyword thingy, no luck.

I'm trying to build an AgroMech, actually...but there doesn't seem to be any chassis for it - unless you go the drone route and physically expand it from an extra-large walker drone.

Any links will help, or help by itself. This is not for a char at chargen - this is a corp prototype that is itching to be stolen.

Thanks for the help, Kage. The problem is that some of the stats for certain upgrades/modifications don't have stats for drones - kinda hard to mix and match.

Also, I don't want to wrestle with building the damn thing if it has already been done by someone else. *sigh* Yeah, I'm lazy, so sue me.

I've got stats for Patlabors around here somewhere. They're pretty close to a gundum, but more security than military (they do have both though). I only have hardcopies right now, but I found them over at the shadowrun archive, I think.

Good to know there are some out there - if you find the link, PM it to me. I'll browse around myself and see if I can't stumble upon it.