I was seeking opinions on how you think safecracking should be treated in SR. In this age of red systems, secure PLTGs and electronic nuyen, is there even a use for safes anymore? For what? Combination electronics and mechanical locks? Skills needed to open? Sophisticated advances from now to 2064?

If this is covered in some book I don't own I'm sorry for belaboring the topic.

I don't see why not. There's lots more things to put in safes besides cash - coin collections, jewelry, important documents, rare/unique items, etc. In Ocean's 12, for example, they break into a Dutch man's safe to get the first stock certificate ever printed.

I don't know of any specific rules, though, safe the standard stuff about maglocks.

lockpicking and safecracking skills were in SOTA2063 - each with specializations for the type of lock system (tumbler, etc)...

safes definitely have a place - where else are you going to store diamonds, gold bars, data chips, prototypes, or other secret data and physical commodities??

is it covered in 2064 also ( i just ordered it) or only 2063?

Even in 2064, I imagine a fair number of technophobic Persons of Power will still use good old fashioned strongboxes. Even if a data chip has the most glacial scramble IC on it, and lives in the most secure corporate compound, I'd still feel safer if it was also in a big metal box behind a painting.

I'd look out for more "trapped" safes in the 2060s. Just as maglocks have tamper-detection systems on them, I'd imagine a mechano-electric safe system having enough smarts to tell when it is being cracked, releasing either neurostun to disable the crackers, or detonating an internal plastique charge to prevent data/objects from falling into the wrong hands.

or just blowing the unlocking mechanisms, so that you can't get the goodies inside without physically cutting through the safe. i'm sure Cray74 can come up with some materials that are just about cut-proof by any means short of those found in a facility somewhere.

"And the religious news item today is that Archbishop O'Connor won't be attending Christmas service as he's undergoing intensive facial reconstruction after a security device protecting the curch safe malfunctioned and melted it off. Back to you Diane."

Before you start lining your safe with thermit you need to ask yourself. Are you trying to keep the contents for yourself or prevent somebody from getting it?

EG the deniable assets division of any corporation will have a safe that contains certified cred sticks in various denominations for paying deniable assets. This safe will be difficult to gain entry to but will not self destruct, it doesn’t cost anymore if somebody takes the cred than if you destroy it and they may well set of the tamper switch when they would never have actually been able to get into the safe. And even if they get in there is a chance you will be able to recover the contents

What most safes probably have is an effect similar to modern safes. Once you trip the tamper the bolts that secure the door are permanently lodged in position. Even with the correct identifiers (keys, pass-codes, retinal scans) you can not get in, the manufacturer will have big cutting tools that will be able to get in but it will take a long time, a thief would take hours at least to cut open the safe, possibly days.

Most safes will be secured with a multiple bolt mag lock witch will be destroyed (holding in the locked position) when the incorrect code is entered to many times.

Edward

These are, of course, good safes. Many 'regular' ones can be opened with 10 minutes and a good drill.

Once you remove the need for stealth, opening a safe can be done somewhat quickly (matter of hours). That is however provided you can move the safe. With an air hammer, an oxy-acediline torch, and prehaps a good re-cip saw, most safes can be cracked off site.

probably for good reason...

If I was trying to break into a safe I would be wary of using an oxy cutter burning bars or any such convenient method out of fear that the heat would damage the contents, when you present badly singed bearer bonds to the bank they will ask a lot more questions.

Edward

hmm, heat sensitive fire alarms anyone?

Any door can be circumvented, given enough tools, skill, and time. But getting all three of those in one place at one time is the trick.

And of course there are still safes, as has been said. Certified sticks, gems, precious metals (including uranium), explosives, firearms, drugs, enchanting materials...the weight to value ratio of orichalcum, for example, is huge.

The main reason I'd think safes would be around in Shadowrun is that just about every street punk looking to break into the local Stuffer Shack has the Electronics skill, but damn near nobody has Safecracking.

Hrmm I was going to ask a very obvious question. Thankfully, I looked at the NSRCG skills section before making (a bigger) fool of myself.

Yep, similar 'improvisations' have occured in the Philippines, apparently up to blowing an entire wall off the bank building, and then making off with the cash.

The assumptions in these cases are that if you use raw brute force to get to the safe, it'll attract a lot of attention. But sometime the sheer shock value of the brute force approach outweighs the disadvantages of the attention. Besides, if you have a sufficiently strong troll you can steal the safe and crack it at your leisure.

Psychologically speaking, the safe sliding along the road and throwing sparks 50 meters behind the armored car is more interesting than the armored car.

Sounds an awful lot like a front-end loader.

Big hydraulic shovel on the front, smaller hydraulic scoop on the back?

Safecracking can present a fun challenge for players.

I find it terribly amusing seeing players boggle their way around hardened case steel and titanium box that is all that stands between them and success.

What about using magic to crack a safe?

hmm, power 20 open lock spell?

For smaller safes, you can probably power bolt them until they fall apart...

That is the butifull thing about magical attacks, the single target ones r quite discriminating, I would expect a power bolt to destroy the save without damaging its contents.

Well, according to some of the stuff I've seen in the threads and that have come out of the "Offical Answers to questions" email on the main site, you could throw almost any physical spell, so long as it doesn't last long enough to still be going when you finally gain LOS to the contents and not even harm them. Just watch those elemental manipulations, they don't require LOS, which means they'd risk damaging the contents.

for the uninformed (myself included), i believe this is what they're referring to as JCB.

Honestly, I would find it phenominally unlikely this would open it. I've seen criminals do STUPID things to open an ATM, and it's not easy.

It depends on how good the ATM construction is and most importantly just how deep the quarry is. This was, oh crap I've just remembered how old I am, 8 years ago.

A twist I remember from an episode of The Six Million Dollar Man (God, am I the only one old enough to remember watching that as a kid ?): a safe with a secret drop chute / pneumatic tube to move the contents to an even more secure location in case of a nuclear attack, gas explosion, etc.. Stalwart Steve Austin defeated the system by busting through the wall next to the safe, shunting the tube into the office and then simulating the heat of the explosion on the safe itself.

IMO any safe not structurally built into a building, i.e. somewhat portable, would incorporate satellite location technology and inertial alarms. The latter would also seal the safe or destroy the contents in the event of an earthquake or building collapse, to delay looters.

For those items you can't trust other people with, why not a large automated "smart safe" with dedicated expert security system, sensors & communications, long-term power supply and linked drones to care for the contents and defend against crackers ?

As for magic, I would use urban renewal (safe) on it.