Hoi, Chummers!

I have a quick question:

My character is an Adept of the Magician's Way, and a follower of the Silent Way as far as his Adept powers are concerned, and I want to avoid any form of cyberware or bioware, if at all possible.

Is there a NON-Smartlink means of determining, either by visual or tactile means, how many cartridges, and their type, remain in a weapon's magazine or clip?

I'm aware of such items as Smartgoggles and Smartscopes, but I'm not certain if they're canonical, strictly speaking, and I was wondering if there were others.

The main reason that I'm asking is because, IRL, my short-term memory is rather poor. It's a long story; in a nutshell, I had some sort of infection just before I turned twelve (I'll be 41 in May)--some form of meningitis or encephalitis, I believe--and as a result, I have difficulty recalling some things. I can remember what I was doing up to an hour ago, or late yesterday, but in-between, I'm kind of hazy.

I know that I could always ask the GM to keep track, but I was wondering

As always, thanks for any input.

P.S.--I hope that you all had an enjoyable Christmas. and will have a happy New Year.

--Foreigner

smartgoggles do that, in canon.

Thanks, mfb.

I thought as much, but I wanted to be absolutely certain before trying anything in a campaign.

--Foreigner

In the SR2 Rulebook, it says:

The 3rd edition reference is on pg 276, right column, second paragaraph, last two sentences.

In RL most clips have a scale on the side-5....10 with a whole next to them. If you see a bullet at the 5 hole and it's blank at the 10, it gives you a rough idea. Revolvers, no, and while it takes a little longer to open it and check the cylinders, I think that's better than looking at the front of the cylinders for slugs, since that means the barrell is aimed between your own eyes to do that.

Also, a lot of new AR magazines are made out of translucent plastic, since the holes (described above) can be kind of hard to see. For any internal magazine there's no simple way of checking the ammunition. Revolvers, the same. Also, and weapon that the magazine is fully enclosed by the grip (i.e. most pistols) will be hard to check. But most assault rifles, shotguns with box magazines, and so one can be checkd at a glance.

You call yourself a runner? You should be able to count the shots!

<SIGH>

ANOTHER fragging comedian....

There's one in every crowd.

Just kidding, Kayne.


--Foreigner

I have another question related to my earlier one:

As I understand it, Smartgoggles normally allow the wearer to see only under normal lighting conditions.

Assuming that it hasn't already been done, would it be possible--and more importantly, legal under the rules-- to modify them to see by other means as well?

That is, Low-Light, Thermographic, and Ultrasound, if not some combination thereof?

--Foreigner

Yes yes and yes. And I presonaly prefer smart shades, but at 7k before modifications, they are bloody expensive.
IIRC, Smart Shades 2, w/ LL & thrmo rull run you 11k. MM pg 32-33.

Thanks, Lindt.

Sorry, but I don't have MAN & MACHINE at present.

By "smart shades", do you mean something a bit less, um, obvious than Smartgoggles?

I have a sudden mental image of a VERY high-tech-appearing set of wrap-around sunglasses (a 2060s version of "Gargoyles", perhaps? )--however, that would fit my character's image pretty well, I think, considering that he's pretty much based upon the quintessential Hollyweird (yes, that misspelling is intentional) international assassin character (think THE DAY OF THE JACKAL and THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR), most of whom wear some form of dark glasses when out in public to avoid recognition.

--Foreigner

Another option would be a digital readout on the gun itself. By using a simple switch triggered whenever a new bullet enters the chamber, one can accurately determine how much is left in the clip and use a simple circut to count the number of bullets used and subtract it from the amount normally found in a clip. Such an addition would only cost a hundred Nuyen or so, and would have nearly no effect at all on concealibilty for larger weapons (SMG's and up), while reducing it by 1 for most handguns. (Anything with a Concealability less than 6 should be exempt from this rulel).

As was mentioned earlier, a digital readout is standard on all (or at least most) firearms in Shadowrun.

I only added the 'most' in case someone brought up things like that.

hmm, most likely the counting sensor would have to be in the clip rather then in the gun, on the edge of the clip would be some small contacts that hook the system up to the display in the gun. clips are feed useing a spring pushin up yes? can one measure how far that sping have traveld? and if so based on the size of each round one can then calculate how many is left?

this way it allso allows for scenarios like when someone pops the clip out and tops it off (may happen in a drawn out siege or similar) or just removes it and reinserts it to check that everything is working ok without zeroing out the count.

hmm, with a small battery, a way to measure how far the spring have traveld and a chip to do the math and send the correct signals of to the display (and this can be a simple diode number display similar to what is used on cheap video recorders to display time) and on is off.

It's probably even simpler than that. When it's manufactured, a clip can hold X rounds maximum, and that's never going to change. Nothing has to be calculated, since at what point the clip holds X, eight, or one round is known at manufacture.

hobgoblin:


Your post reminded me of something I read about 20 years ago.

A company that designed cutting-edge firearms accessories had built a highly modified SIG-Sauer P-229--for those of you who aren't familiar with it, this is an 11-shot (12 with the chamber loaded) 9mm Parabellum ("Luger") double action semiautomatic pistol, built as a joint venture between SIG, a Swiss weapons conglomerate, and J.P. Sauer and Son, a German armsmaker.

The weapons system built around it had what was, essentially, a computerized fire-control system built into a highly modified suppressor attached to the front end of the pistol's slide--the device was so large and heavy that simply attaching it to the end of the barrel wouldn't provide the necessary support.

In addition to being fitted with a laser sight (both visble and infrared) and a miniature flashlight (with the same qualities as the laser unit), the pistol was fitted with a miniature computer system that could automatically keep track of the number and type of cartridges--full metal jacketed, hollow point, or what-have-you--simply by programming the information into the computer, either before or after loading the weapon. (I'm not certain how the counter worked, unless there was a sensor interface between the magazine and the pistol.)

The whole system was controlled via a small panel built into the left-side grip panel, as the prototype weapon was designed for use by a right-handed person.

--Foreigner

first off: in real life you normally dont load a clip or mag to full capacity, it wares the springs in the clip/mag out too fast and when the spring loses its "push" the gun will jam.

second: if youre good, and i know some who are, you can determine whether you are "full" or "empty" just by the weight and balance of a pistol, but not exactly how many rounds are left. in a light pistol that fires heavy rounds like a normal military issue 9mm then its pretty easy to feel, hell, even i can but i spent many watches with a 9mm in the navy and am expert qualified in pistols and rifles. its all about the ratio of weight of rounds to weight of gun.

if you have, id say, 2 ranks in pistol and specialized then you should be able to tell.

in 1911 the revolver was hot stuff, well, still used anyway, and who would underload a revolver?

the more rounds that CAN be loaded into the mag/clip the better chance that underloading is a good idea cause the spring has a greater distance to travel. ie:
i underload an AK47 and fully load a 30 oght 6

oops, you wrote a 1911, not in 1911

in the navy i was told by GM's (gunners mates), people who's jobs it is to work with guns all day long, to only load my 9mm and M16 with 7/8ths of the full capacity of rounds. we all know that the military doesnt get the best equipment so its possible that what they/we use is so bad that you have to follow this rule.

also my stepfather, an ex navy seal, told me the same. and he got some bad mags for one of his european assult rifles that wont load the last couple rounds. but those mags were made in the 50's.

for a new/good mag/clips id say it isnt needed but for older stuff then id rather have a mag/clip with less rounds than a jam.

An older thread about clip sizes and spring degradation. As I said there, I have trouble understanding the whole underloading thing, because we never underloaded anything on purpose in the Finnish DF and never had problems with magazines feeding, with magazines that were often 15-20 years old.

only way a spring can loose its push i think is if its stays in the compressed posision for ages or of its stretched beyond its original relaxed state. other then that you only risk it breaking from the metal getting worn out and even that should be rare (these things are made to flex).

and if i was to go into a comat zone i would worry more about the amount of ammo im carrying then haveing a mag that fail to push the round into the chamber. rounds still in the mag can be removed and transferd to a working one if one just gets the time to do so, when your out of ammo your out of ammo.