Without using any magic or spirits, is there a way to make a start out character with all 6 attributes at a 9 or higher? I can manage to get all attributes except for Charisma on my own, but how would you do it and please keep it to the character generation rules.
No house rules.
No starting karma to spend.
No magic/spirits.
Full Version: Did you say Niner?
Why would you want to?
Sounds Munchkinish.
Sounds Munchkinish.
It does, but a few of us wondered what the most a character could max all of them out at?
cha should be pretty easy, i'd think. Tailored Pheremones 2, Extra Attribute Point.
edit: color me stupid. TF has avail 12.
edit: color me stupid. TF has avail 12.
If you have the cash you can get plastic surgery (man and machine)
Coupled with a few edges from Companion....
Just checking 'em now
Coupled with a few edges from Companion....
Just checking 'em now
Exceptional attribute +1
...not much else...
could go a dryad...they get +3 charisma...
lots of stuff to give you a boost in a social situation however.
...not much else...
could go a dryad...they get +3 charisma...
lots of stuff to give you a boost in a social situation however.
Well...here is what I was thinking.
Muscle Aug.
Muscle Toner
Dermal Sheathing
Cerebral Booster
Dwarf character for +1 Willpower
Albino for another +1 Willpower or just go with a Gnome instead for a +2 or both for a +3
Tailored Pheromones have too high of an availability, so I am stuck with a charisma of 7 by going with the bonus attribute Edge.
You could try reversing the scenario by using an elf to boost charisma, but then you are lacking in the willpower category. At least with the dwarf you can get tailored pheromones later.
Muscle Aug.
Muscle Toner
Dermal Sheathing
Cerebral Booster
Dwarf character for +1 Willpower
Albino for another +1 Willpower or just go with a Gnome instead for a +2 or both for a +3
Tailored Pheromones have too high of an availability, so I am stuck with a charisma of 7 by going with the bonus attribute Edge.
You could try reversing the scenario by using an elf to boost charisma, but then you are lacking in the willpower category. At least with the dwarf you can get tailored pheromones later.
But why have stack-o-stats?
Can the character actualy DO anything?
Can they do it WELL?
Can they do it BETTER than someone else in the party?
If not you end up a fith wheel.
Can the character actualy DO anything?
Can they do it WELL?
Can they do it BETTER than someone else in the party?
If not you end up a fith wheel.
Look at my previous answer to that J. It was just to see if it could get there. It is feesible to get 7's accross the board and possibly 8's. We were just wondering if there is a way to get 9's.
I'm not looking for the best character that will NEVER EVER exist. Every character has there own purpose, edges, and flaws.
This is just simply a "Could you do it?" moment.
I'm not looking for the best character that will NEVER EVER exist. Every character has there own purpose, edges, and flaws.
This is just simply a "Could you do it?" moment.
Tailored Pheremones are availabililty 12, so not allowed for starting characters. Are we allowed to exceed that availability... or for that matter can we have cultured bioware?
JaronK
JaronK
| QUOTE (JaronK @ Jan 4 2005, 03:45 AM) |
| Tailored Pheremones are availabililty 12, so not allowed for starting characters. Are we allowed to exceed that availability... or for that matter can we have cultured bioware? JaronK |
Per my initial description, No. Only the rules for character creation stated in the book. And since we are talking about edges and flaws lets assume if you go point based system that you use the standard 120 points as recommended. But, we need to leave some points for skills afterall... I know you can throw all points into attributes....but we are looking more towards cyberware/bioware or other techs. I was assuming 30 Attribute points.
SURGE albino elf. Use the 'dual natured' flaw and maybe a couple others to feed all the points you'll need.
Exceptional Attribute (all)
Bonus Attribute point (all but Charisma, after you've spent the 7 base points for each of 'em)
So there you have an Elf with 8 in Body, Strength, and Intelligence in 9 in Quickness, Charisma, and Willpower. The biomods'll boost the low three, and you can even kill the Bonus Attribute Point for some of 'em if you'd rather.
Edit: Oh, if no cultured bioware, then the cerebral booster is right out. It seems like there was a headware that gave a 'simulated' bonus to Intelligence, or something along those lines.
Edit 2: I don't have Matrix, but I seem to recall reading that otaku get +1 to all mental stats and -1 to all physical. Conveniently enough, physical are the easiest to boost. However, I don't know if this is plausible, since I also seem to recall reading that otaku get 5k
in starting resources, which would seriously put a damper on any street sammie stylings.
Exceptional Attribute (all)
Bonus Attribute point (all but Charisma, after you've spent the 7 base points for each of 'em)
So there you have an Elf with 8 in Body, Strength, and Intelligence in 9 in Quickness, Charisma, and Willpower. The biomods'll boost the low three, and you can even kill the Bonus Attribute Point for some of 'em if you'd rather.
Edit: Oh, if no cultured bioware, then the cerebral booster is right out. It seems like there was a headware that gave a 'simulated' bonus to Intelligence, or something along those lines.
Edit 2: I don't have Matrix, but I seem to recall reading that otaku get +1 to all mental stats and -1 to all physical. Conveniently enough, physical are the easiest to boost. However, I don't know if this is plausible, since I also seem to recall reading that otaku get 5k
in starting resources, which would seriously put a damper on any street sammie stylings.
If I'm allowed cultured bioware and availability 12 at creation, it's easy.
Albino Gnome with exceptional attribute (body) and bonus attribute point (intelligence), with max in stats, superthyroid gland, muscle toner 2, muscle augmentation 1, cerebral booster 2, cultured pheremones 2 (the only part that needed the availability or cultured status), and that's it.
9 in all stats, 10 charisma, and 590,000Y left to spend. With 6 points in flaws he's actually got room for a few skills, plus money for gear, and he's only got a bio index of 3.85, which isn't great but is workable.
Of course, he can't do all that much, and being mundane has little use for Willpower 9, but he's real good in social situations.
JaronK
Albino Gnome with exceptional attribute (body) and bonus attribute point (intelligence), with max in stats, superthyroid gland, muscle toner 2, muscle augmentation 1, cerebral booster 2, cultured pheremones 2 (the only part that needed the availability or cultured status), and that's it.
9 in all stats, 10 charisma, and 590,000Y left to spend. With 6 points in flaws he's actually got room for a few skills, plus money for gear, and he's only got a bio index of 3.85, which isn't great but is workable.
Of course, he can't do all that much, and being mundane has little use for Willpower 9, but he's real good in social situations.
JaronK
"Sure, he's small, looks like bleached undies and (insert effects of flaws here), but damn we love him."
Only cultured bioware that has an availability of 8 or less. The last I recalled cultured was an option as long as it was within availability.
EDIT\
Note: If going point system.
Elf Metavariant + SURGE + Enough money for mods + 30 attributes = 110 points leaving us with 10 skill points.
Not the most skilled but oh well.
EDIT2\ The reason for a 9 Willpower for a non-magical character?!!!! Are you kidding me!!!! That just makes it easier to resist those nasty spells. You might as well said give a 1 Willpower because I don't need it.
EDIT\
Note: If going point system.
Elf Metavariant + SURGE + Enough money for mods + 30 attributes = 110 points leaving us with 10 skill points.
Not the most skilled but oh well.
EDIT2\ The reason for a 9 Willpower for a non-magical character?!!!! Are you kidding me!!!! That just makes it easier to resist those nasty spells. You might as well said give a 1 Willpower because I don't need it.
6 is enough willpower to shrug off almost any willpower targeting spell... 9 is excessive.
JaronK
JaronK
My calc's showing Elf (10) Changeling (5) Albino (text implies no cost, even though it's technically a metavariant) Attributes (84 points- 7 per stat = 42 total attr points x2), Dual Natured (+10), Edges (6x Enhanced Attribute/5x Bonus Attribute Point) (24). So, before Resources and Skills, that's 113 points (although theoretically you could take another 18 points of flaws (hah! loverly!) and net 95 sum points before Resources and Flaws).
Didn't say it'd be easy, or that he actually HAD any skills- but yeah, you *can* do it...
It might be better just to talk the GM into letting you run a Drake.
Pfft, Willpower is seriously neglected. Everybody wants that uber-die combat pool!
Didn't say it'd be easy, or that he actually HAD any skills- but yeah, you *can* do it...
It might be better just to talk the GM into letting you run a Drake.
Pfft, Willpower is seriously neglected. Everybody wants that uber-die combat pool!
I believe you can't take more than one bonus attribute point or one enhanced attribute point, so that won't work.
The hard part is that without going over availability 8, you can't increase charisma without using up bonus or enhanced points, so you need at least +1 charisma (unless SOTA64 has something I'm not aware of... I only saw tailored pheremones). Also, you can only raise intelligence by 2, and I didn't see any way to raise willpower without a pain editor. This means you need stat boosts in intelligence, charisma, and willpower, and I didn't see any options that give all three.
JaronK
The hard part is that without going over availability 8, you can't increase charisma without using up bonus or enhanced points, so you need at least +1 charisma (unless SOTA64 has something I'm not aware of... I only saw tailored pheremones). Also, you can only raise intelligence by 2, and I didn't see any way to raise willpower without a pain editor. This means you need stat boosts in intelligence, charisma, and willpower, and I didn't see any options that give all three.
JaronK
Tailored Pheremones still don't up Charisma, you know.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (JaronK) |
| 6 is enough willpower to shrug off almost any willpower targeting spell... |
I wish.
| QUOTE (JaronK) |
| I believe you can't take more than one bonus attribute point or one enhanced attribute point, so that won't work. The hard part is that without going over availability 8, you can't increase charisma without using up bonus or enhanced points, so you need at least +1 charisma (unless SOTA64 has something I'm not aware of... I only saw tailored pheremones). Also, you can only raise intelligence by 2, and I didn't see any way to raise willpower without a pain editor. This means you need stat boosts in intelligence, charisma, and willpower, and I didn't see any options that give all three. JaronK |
Your missing the point of different races though. That is why we brought in the metavarients. Then you can get the bonuses you need for at least one of those stats. That is why I was reserving the bonus attribute for intelligence and going with a dyad or a gnome for the willpower or charisma.
noneuklid you're violating a couple basic premises for character generation. You can only spend 60 points on attributes, meaning a total of 30 starting attribute points or an average of five in each attribute. Also, according to rules recommendations in the comanion you may only have a maximum of 5 edges and 5 flaws and the difference between the two cannot be more than 6 net points.
The max-30-points is just a suggestion, same with edge/flaw limits.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| The max-30-points is just a suggestion, same with edge/flaw limits. |
Isn't the availability cap also just a suggestion?
Nope, listed as a rule.
~J
~J
Re edges and flaws: The 6-point difference thing is just a suggestion. And where's it say that you can only have 5 of each?
Oh, and you're right- only one Bonus Attribute Point per character. Enhanced Attribute, however, has no such limit. So, the bonus point goes to Willpower. Quickness, Body, Strength, and Intelligence all get boosted by gear. Specifically, I reccomend Muscle Augmentation 2, Muscle Toner 1, Cerebral Booster 2, and alpha titanium bone lacing (or just a pair of cyberlegs, but bone lacing rules!). Total cost for all that'll come up to 325K, which is available at 20 points of resources- so you'll need another 5 points of flaws and you'll just break even with no skills (you can take up to 11 points of flaws and have 6 skill points).
Edit: Oh, alternately you could make the character a bio-enginered freak. Er... moreso than before... by using the 'major phenotypical alteration' genetech. This would be far more expensive; the treatment only increases the Racial Modified Limit, so more attribute points would have to be bought.
Oh, and you're right- only one Bonus Attribute Point per character. Enhanced Attribute, however, has no such limit. So, the bonus point goes to Willpower. Quickness, Body, Strength, and Intelligence all get boosted by gear. Specifically, I reccomend Muscle Augmentation 2, Muscle Toner 1, Cerebral Booster 2, and alpha titanium bone lacing (or just a pair of cyberlegs, but bone lacing rules!). Total cost for all that'll come up to 325K, which is available at 20 points of resources- so you'll need another 5 points of flaws and you'll just break even with no skills (you can take up to 11 points of flaws and have 6 skill points).
Edit: Oh, alternately you could make the character a bio-enginered freak. Er... moreso than before... by using the 'major phenotypical alteration' genetech. This would be far more expensive; the treatment only increases the Racial Modified Limit, so more attribute points would have to be bought.
| QUOTE |
| This would be far more expensive; the treatment only increases the Racial Modified Limit, so more attribute points would have to be bought. |
No good, No starting attribute can have more than 6 points put into it, nor less than one. You cna raise your RML to the sky and back but during chargen you cannot put more than 6 points into it. The same thing goes for the Enhanced Attribute edge. Your cap may be 7, but you can only put in 6 points at chargen.
Also as a note making a "legal starting character" is a bit of a misnomer here if you're going to throw out all the recommended guidelines of making a character. Just IMHO.
Also as a note making a "legal starting character" is a bit of a misnomer here if you're going to throw out all the recommended guidelines of making a character. Just IMHO.
Most of the gene-tech requires a clinic that is too high for starting characters, if memory serves.
Physical stats could all be boosted to 9 easily via bioware, farther if you dont care whether or not the bonus is natural. Mental stats are the hard part; meaning you basically have to choose a dwarf or elf to even come close. Either way, youd be hard pressed to actually get each mental attribute up to even 8, as I dont believe anything actually adds to intelligence; just dice to intelligence related things.
Of course, as soon as you include magic its relativly easy; Albino Fox Shapeshifter plus some foci for the physical stats is pretty easily accompished.
Physical stats could all be boosted to 9 easily via bioware, farther if you dont care whether or not the bonus is natural. Mental stats are the hard part; meaning you basically have to choose a dwarf or elf to even come close. Either way, youd be hard pressed to actually get each mental attribute up to even 8, as I dont believe anything actually adds to intelligence; just dice to intelligence related things.
Of course, as soon as you include magic its relativly easy; Albino Fox Shapeshifter plus some foci for the physical stats is pretty easily accompished.
Cerebral Booster actually adds to INT. It's WIL and CHR that nothing add to permanently.
~J
~J
Ok I shoulda been more specific. Nothing you can obtain at charater generation following the default rules and guidelines adds directly to int, save spells.
Under the rules cultured bioware is available.
~J
~J
Well its not with FAQ/Errata whatever from the FanPro site which is why I said rules and guidelines. Regardless either way its rather pointless and you can get darn close, but I dont think you can get 9 in all 6 without breaking some rules/guidelines or using magic.
The FAQ states ...
| QUOTE |
| Can a character purchase bioware at character creation? What about cultured bioware? Nanoware? Generally, this is the gamemaster's call, based upon how available s/he wants to make such gear in his or her game. We recommend to sticking to the Availability rule (no character can start the game with any gear with an Availability higher than  . If you want an official call, then the answer is that all basic bioware with an Availability of 8 or less is available at character creation. Cultured bioware and nanoware are not, since they require the equivalent of a beta-clinic to implant. |
I go with the first answer, as in my opinion there are some pieces of Culture Bioware that should be available at chargen.
| QUOTE (BitBasher @ Jan 5 2005, 11:25 AM) |
No good, No starting attribute can have more than 6 points put into it, nor less than one. You cna raise your RML to the sky and back but during chargen you cannot put more than 6 points into it. The same thing goes for the Enhanced Attribute edge. Your cap may be 7, but you can only put in 6 points at chargen. |
I was under the impression that Enhanced Attribute over-rode that, but that is purely interpretive, so you are technically correct. Which is the best kind of correct!
I'm also actually obeying all the suggestions, so far as I'm aware- I can't find the bit about a limit of five edges or flaws, and the point values work out about right. If they don't, it's a relatively simple matter to add a couple flaws to taste (maybe paranoia (above and beyond the normal for a shadowrunner to the point of ridiculousness) and something relating to being an over-achiever?). But, yes, if you can only use six points per stat at creation, I'm pretty much stuck. I can't think of any way to get both Intelligence AND Charisma to 9 without my skewed reading of EA.
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