I was just wondering what the general sentiment was about using the Grenade Launcher defaulting to assault rifle skill rule. In particular, if you could default to the specialisation of the assault rifle that the GL was mounted on without further penalties.

Say that a character has Assault Rifles (M22A3) 4(6). He wants to fire the u/b mounted grenade launcher. Would he use the general 'assault rifle' skill, or the specialisation for the specific gun.

Just FYI, I'm leaning towards the specialisation. I was just looking for opinions or clarifications.

by the rules, you can't default to Assault Rifles at all. if you allow defaulting to that skill, however, you are allowed to default to either the base skill or the specialization, whichever the player chooses on a given roll.

Actually, mfb, you can default to the Assault Rifle skill. See SR3 page 86, under Launch Weapons. Post #4

eh? how? Launch Weapons is Int, Assault Rifles is Qui. did i miss a specific rule somewhere, that allows defaulting in the specific case of underbarrel launchers?

edit: apparently so.

Well, it says "that weapons skill" meaning the one the launcher is attached to. Assuming that quote is accurate in the BBB, Id say the specialization would work fine. I would still treat the modifer as if going to a base skill as the rule says however.

That's just ridiculous rules lawyering. No, a specialization should not apply.

May I ask, why not?

white dwarf, it says "base skill". that means that, by the rules, you can only use the base skill, especially since it goes on to mention the specific modifiers that apply. however, in my game, i would allow players to default to a specialization as normal.

I'd say the specialisation applies with no further penalties if the specialisation was appropriate to the actual weapon.

Actual Weapon: M22A3 + GL
Skill: Assault Rifles(M22A3) 4/6 - Specialisation applies
Skill: Assault Rifles(any other assault rifle) 4/6 - Base applies

A specialization represents the ins and outs of using a specific weapon. It's quirks, etc...

That shouldn't apply to a completely different weapon.
I didn't see it listed here, but that default to AR's gets a +2 to the target number. (As if in same group)

Well, like I said, my post assumed the provided quote was accurate. If it says base skill obviously theres no question. The original poster can look it up and decide.
The provided one says to use "that weapons" skill and the modifiers as if going to a base skill. Both parts of the sentence are needed, as the modifer must be defined because the default is abnormal, regardless of which skill value the first part refers to; and personally Im inclined to define "that weapon" as the specific skill value rolled by the character for whatever gun the launcher is on. And that inclination is what the original poster asked for. I dont particularly care whats canon on this he specifically asked for opinon, but tortui seems to say the same thing if Im reading his post right =)

It would be conservative to rule Base Skill and no one will even attempt to fault you, but Specialisations could be allowed because the wording in p86 is sufficiently ambiguious.

I've always ruled that it was the base skill, but upon re-reading the rule (and this thread), I'm now leaning towards the specialization.

Semantics notwithstanding, it does make sense in my mind that the familiarity with handling a specific weapon would make a difference in your ability to aim, and so forth, the grenade launcher. Moreso in the case where the Assault Rifle comes standard with a grenade launcher, although that's neither here nor there.

Really, why would you be able to use the AR skill to be able to fire the grenade launcher? The firing arc of the grenade has nothing to do with the firing arc of the bullet, it has nothing to do with experience with auto-fire. It is all about how the user handles the weapon. In which case, how is the base skill any more relevant than the specialisation?

I think the only reason to use the base skill as opposed to the specialization is that the default is already a bonus to the (non-skilled) user of the GL. Using the specialization would just be a better bonus.

i'd say the wording on page 86 is pretty non-ambiguous. it spells out in no uncertain terms what TN modifiers apply, and how much combat pool you can use.

*ponders* cause Im slighly indecisive. In cases where the gun comes standerd with a GL, suck as the Ak98 ,Ares Alpha, and Colt M23, Id say go with the specilization. But if you just stick a GL on your say, fav T250 combat shotgun, Im gonna go with a no. Im to clarify, Im saying no for any gun that it dosent come standered with.
Also, is the Ares Antioch the only UBGL? Seriously, -3 conc? Then again, its a SA clip fed GL... scary...

Um, there are specific rules for defaulting to specializations.

I would say that this specific rule is an exception.

i thought that you could only default to a specialization of a skill in the same "skillset" as what you are trying to use? such as the example in canon of someone trying to use a gun as a club, but has no club skill, rather edged weapons (swords) defaulting to the sword spec.

that would make this whole discussion moot, but thats just how i am understanding it.

The Launch Weapons skill to other weapon skill for greande launchers is a special case.

Normally , you'd be right Aku. What is being discussed is the specific rule exception listed in regards to underbarrel (only) grenade launchers.

I'd say let 'em use the specialization rating. It says "the weapon's" skill, and all the rest of the sentence does is clarify what they mean by that, comparing it to the other methods of defaulting (making it clear just what rules this is the exception to, basically).

ok, then these are my 2:nuyen:...

Lets so a ganger got his hands on a new, hot Ares assualt rifle.that they put this GL on. ( lets say it's the first ever AR with a launcher on it) He's playing around with it, and blows himself up. Now in sweeps our team, one of which has the skill Assualt Rifle (AR97). He see's this new toy, slightly crispy, but useable. in comes the book....

Er, what its saying is that in this case, the specific rule is that you can go outside the normal 'skillsets' of defaulting and use a non-linked skill. Basically, if you have a gun with a grenade launcher, you can use that guns skill to operate the grenade launcher instead of launch weapons, albiet at some penalty. The question posed was regarding the use of a specialization or not in this special-case default.

There are rules which allow you to roll your Ares Predator specialisation for firing an Ingram Smartgun. So, in that same vane, I'd allow someone to use their specialisation for the grenade launcher.

As far as I'm concerned, the quote basically says "for grenade launchers, treat Launch Weapons as quickness linked and in the same box as Assault Rifle/SMG/Shotgun*" *delete as appropriate

I ain't sure on what the hell SM2 does to 'linked weapons' like a grenade launcher, but since I'd count it as integrated on an Alpha I ain't fussed.