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algcs
QUOTE
Eh, that's horribly inefficient. HRT team runs straight for the pad Pilot starts the plan and leaves while the team inside straps on armor and does weapon checks en-route. Those ospreys (and Citymasters) are easily used as staging areas. The ospray holds all the ready gear.


Yes and no. It does slow the team down but some gear is personally issued to each team member. That is the kind of gear that won't be on the plane. You want the team listening to what the situation is and the attack plan during transit.

QUOTE
The pilot registers no flight plan. The pilot slaps in a sequence and a preregistered flight plan designated for emergency use is sent to Seattle Air Control, becuase KE is a registered security provider, and would definitely have preplanned emergency routes to any locations which it has a security contract.


Maybe maybe not. There is a lot of air traffic in my Seattle. They might have a requested route to the target but there is no guarente they will get it. If they go tearing across town with out a plan they will get shut down quickly.

If Lone Star is responsible for Seattle Air Security then KE is going to be registering every flight. Full paperwork requried and if an i isn't dotted right then it is denied.

QUOTE
This is a paramilitary organization.


Correct. But this is a work facility that isn't out in the middle of no where. If KE lands and does 2 million in damages to the site shooting it out with the runners when the runners were stealing $200k in electronics without killing anyone then KE's contract probably isn't getting renewed. That MG burst the KE guy fired is going somewhere. If it hits a schoolbus full of kids on the nearby interstate then people are going to try to get KE's lethal force licence revoked. Middle management is going to mirco manage everthing. Their necks are the ones on the line. If it is cheaper to let the bad guys go and cover it with insurance vs going in guns blazing then that is what will happen.

This is assuming the facility has paid for fairly good coverage. HRTs aren't cheap. Most sites like this in my game would have a CityMaster team respond to an alarm with drones acting as cover.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (algcs)
If Lone Star is responsible for Seattle Air Security then KE is going to be registering every flight. Full paperwork requried and if an i isn't dotted right then it is denied.

Emergency services. It is the duty of every other pilot to get the hell out of their way.

~J
algcs
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Emergency services. It is the duty of every other pilot to get the hell out of their way.

Only they are a private contractor. Lone Star is the Emergency Services. Maybe Doc Wagon. Seeing there could be multiple teams, Doc wagon, KE, LS, Crash Cart, etc all headed to the same facility someone gets to coordinate it all. That would be Lone Star.

The big 10 could easily get Lone Star cooperation. KE is working on unseating Lone Star from their Seattle contract. They get squat.

KE isn't going to get a stop light to change green for them when responding. If anything the Star is likely going to try to delay the KE team and have their own people catch the runners as they leave company grounds.
BitBasher
QUOTE
Only they are a private contractor. Lone Star is the Emergency Services.
The two are not exclusive. Nearly all ambulance services in the real world are both private contractors and emergency services, adn you get the hell out of their way.
3278
Sounds to me like there's a profound difference in the way this issue is dealt with in your two games, with no solid canon answer to support either point-of-view. As such, I would think it falls more in the realm of "I prefer" than "This is so."

In my game, certainly, KE wouldn't have any problems obtaining a flight plan, since all air traffic would be dealt with by computer, and the same computer that accepted the alert and notified the response team would also file a flight plan, taking into account all relevant airspace considerations, i.e. what areas on the path might cross the cone of property extending above all extraterritorial facilities, what areas were experiencing severe air traffic delays, the fastest route to the target, weather, and so on.

While the GridGuide system certainly becomes overloaded on occasion, similar distributed networks of air traffic control will have a vastly lesser volume to handle. Moreover, because such fast response is a predicate of their operations, KE would certainly have whatever degree of computer resources was necessary to arrange for the expedition of their interests. Since such resources are by no means impossible or even impractical in 206x, it stands to reason that KE would possess them.
grendel
A flight plan is unneccessary unless the weather outside is bad enough that Instrument Flight Rules are in effect. Which isn't inconceivable in Seattle, however, even during the bad weather days there are probably enough ground references available that a pilot could file SVFR and be clear to go. On a clear weather day, though, all that's required is Sea-Tac ATC clearance to enter and operate in their airspace, which is all of a three second radio conversation.

"Seattle Approach, Knight Errant Armed 711, at Depot Pad 4, with information X-ray, ready to takeoff, priority alert."

"Knight Errant 711, Approach, squawk 3414, cleared for takeoff, traffic eleven o'clock is an Airstar at four hundred meters, traffic seven o'clock is a Boeing Heavy on final for Sea-Tac, caution, wake turbulence."

"Knight Errant 711, squawking 3414, cleared for takeoff."
algcs
QUOTE (BitBasher)
The two are not exclusive. Nearly all ambulance services in the real world are both private contractors and emergency services, adn you get the hell out of their way.

If KE had a contract with the city to provide the service then yes people would have to clear out. If not then no.

Now people might think they have to get out of their way but that is a different matter.
algcs
QUOTE (3278)
Sounds to me like there's a profound difference in the way this issue is dealt with in your two games, with no solid canon answer to support either point-of-view. As such, I would think it falls more in the realm of "I prefer" than "This is so."

That is part of the fun of it.

It would be nice to see people post more facilities and their security layouts just to see how they see the world. And to see more run plans against those sites.
cheeze monger
I'm kind of a new GM, and I have a question.

So, what if you create this amazingly complex security system and there's only a few sneaky ways in. Then, your runners (amatures) just sprint in the front doors guns blazing with no plan at all. Theres no way they're going to survive against your security. Do you modify the security or just kill the runners?

Also,
QUOTE
As far as security goes, I wrote up a list of attributes a location's security could have and then defined exactly what those attributes are.

Would you be willing to post that?
James McMurray
I wouldn't change the security at all. Unless it is massively out of the runners' league they should have a little bit of warning that they should flee (after several moderate and serious wounds get passed around during the first two initative passes).

And with the Hand of God rule the PCs at least get to make this mistake once andd survive.
tisoz
QUOTE (cheeze monger)
I'm kind of a new GM, and I have a question.

So, what if you create this amazingly complex security system and there's only a few sneaky ways in. Then, your runners (amatures) just sprint in the front doors guns blazing with no plan at all. Theres no way they're going to survive against your security. Do you modify the security or just kill the runners?

There are other things to do besides kill them. Take them all prisoner and let your imagination explore the possibilities.
BitBasher
QUOTE
So, what if you create this amazingly complex security system and there's only a few sneaky ways in. Then, your runners (amatures) just sprint in the front doors guns blazing with no plan at all. Theres no way they're going to survive against your security. Do you modify the security or just kill the runners?
If they did not homework, or even worse knew the forces and tried it anyway? I wouldn't kill them, but I would allow them to die via the virtue of the dice. That's a difference. I don't kill players, but players die.
Paul
QUOTE (cheeze monger @ Feb 2 2005, 08:52 PM)
I'm kind of a new GM, and I have a question.

So, what if you create this amazingly complex security system and there's only a few sneaky ways in.  Then, your runners (amatures) just sprint in the front doors guns blazing with no plan at all.  Theres no way they're going to survive against your security.  Do you modify the security or just kill the runners?

Believe me when I say I am frustrated in how far away from what I wanted this thread to be. It's not quite what I wanted but for now I'll make do.

As Tisoz stated there are a lot of options here.
  • Kill them. It's the most obvious one right? And the one maybe we might be tempted to resort to, right? After all we're teaching them a lesson right? And maybe, just maybe, that's the right option in your game. But lets look at what else is in our tool box shall we?
  • Harm them. "Boy we barely made it out of that one. We're sure lucky those security goons didn't follow us." Nothing is more embarrassing than having your ass handed to you. They don't have to know why they got away, just be thankful they did right? This can set up a lot of other stuff too-did Corp Sec get good mug shots? Prints? Equipment that can be traced? Maybe the price of living is looking over their shoulders for a long time, waiting for Corp X to come after them.
  • Capture them. Welcome to prison chummer, ever wonder what sodomy is like in the sixth world? Or congratulations you have just volunteered for our new cyber spinal replacement program-we haven't worked out all the kinks yet, but hey practice makes perfect! Or "You all black out as the Corporate goons beat you senseless. When you wake up you're sore all over, and groggy." Can we say mysterious cyberware flaw? Or just paranoia? Maybe the corp has no real reason to kill them, and just lets them go thinking they're been watched and fragged with.
  • Save them. "Wow good thing our contacts saved us! Now we owe them BIG!" This won't always be appropriate of course, but just like any of these, you can use this option at time. They're all tools, just like real life you use the right one for the right job. You wouldn't use a hammer to screw in a screw right? Same concept here.
  • If all else fails pause the damn game, and break out the SR Comp. Page 72 Miraculous Escapes is the section you want. If that just isn't going to work, explain it to them. make a guy burn a point of karma, and rewind. "I spend one point of Karma (Or two, five, whatever) to ask this question at the meet." Think of it like making a movie, you an rewind the scene and start it over. I call this my "...and Cut!" option
How does that answer your question?
TeOdio
QUOTE (cheeze monger)
I'm kind of a new GM, and I have a question.

So, what if you create this amazingly complex security system and there's only a few sneaky ways in. Then, your runners (amatures) just sprint in the front doors guns blazing with no plan at all. Theres no way they're going to survive against your security. Do you modify the security or just kill the runners?

Also,
QUOTE
As far as security goes, I wrote up a list of attributes a location's security could have and then defined exactly what those attributes are.

Would you be willing to post that?

The details parts are pretty much pulled from the various books. I yanked a bunch of stuff from 3rd ed, SOTA 2063, and some other sources that had security system type stuff in it and created a one file for myself. It's not elegant (I only intended it for myself, so it isn't formatted very well. I'll be more than happy to throw up a post about the outlines of it though. Give me a day or to polish it up a bit.
nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif
Paul
Most of this is easily found in Corporate Security, an older book, or in SOTA 2063 to a point. If you're realy interested in a decent break down buy Corp Sec. It's probable one of the most useful tools a new Game Master could ask for.
Kanada Ten
Actually, Corporate Security is about 1/3 as useful. Only the first part about layout is relevant in 3rd Edition and SotA63 does a better job, IMO. Most of the fluff is wasted text and the fiction has blantant flasehoods.
Paul
In my opinion, it's the opposite, but I admit some sentimental attachment. I would like to see it reprinted with all the best sections, and some new stuff that runs along the lijnes of some of what I saw in SSG. I'd buy that in a heart beat.
Kanada Ten
Seriously? Maybe I don't like it becasue I had NAG2RL before it, which laid out a fraggin' 00 Zone, and maybe it's because CCSS was written by a retard, and maybe it's becasue they hadn't worked out FAB, and maybe I'd been GMing long enough not to need it, but the only parts I felt worth paying for were the Johnson's SOP (yummy cheese) and the art (yummy cheese).
cheeze monger
QUOTE
I'll be more than happy to throw up a post about the outlines of it though.

I hate to be annoying, but are you going to post this soon? Not trying to rush you but I would really benefit from it. biggrin.gif
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