Few years ago I used to paly a bit of Shadowrun 2nd ed. Now I'm starting again with 3rd edition. There is a problem I have: is it true that if all dices from teh pools fail, the test is failed even is teh normal dices are all ok? Probably it is a stupid thing taht I remmebr from 2nd ediion or probably it was not even there but it is simply a "bug" in my mind.

Your question doesn't make much sense. Do you mean:

When using skill and pool dice (I.E pistols and combat pool), if all the pool dice fail, does the test fail, even if the skill dice do not?

The answer is no. It's simply a bug in your mind.

I think the rule you got mixed up is this:

When you make a check where pool dice are eligble(sp?), you announce how many dice from the pool you allocate BEFORE you make the check. If the normal non-pool dices fail to generate any successes, the pool dice don't count (and aren't returned before the pool refreshes either). The logic being that dice pools can improve results, but it can't turn failures into successes. (You can, of course, use karma to reroll your skill check. If this generates successes, you can use your allocated pool dice as normal).

Got a page reference and/or quote for that little tidbit, Aes?

I don't have my book at hand, but i would go with Aes. At least we play it that way in our group - it may be a house rule, but i don't think so.

I'll look it up when I get home from univ. Pretty sure it was on one of the rools describing firing rules in SR3. I guess I'll know in 5 hours.

I just re-read the section on Dice Pools in SR3 and cannot find any reference to that rule. Maybe I missed it yet again, but I don't think so, which is why I asked for a page reference.

I think that there used to be a similar rule about using the Karma Pool, in that there must be at least one success in order to purchase additional successes.

There is also a rule about using Centering dice, wherein there must be at least one success on the original test for Centering to have any effect.

Well, confusing is the SR rules in a nutshell at times. I'm 110% certain it mentions in the combat phase section that combat pool dice should be a different color than the skill dice. I can't really see why the distinction is important, unless the skill roll success is a prerequisite for the combat pool die. Not to mention it fits the logic of a skill roll needing at least one success before you can buy successes with karma.

Perhaps there is no rule telling otherwise because that's how they wanted it to work?

The logic for having different colored dice for combat pool is quite simple.

Whan you spend karma to re-roll you can't roll the dice from the combat pool you just used up. That way, a player trying to soak heavy damage cannot get out of drek every time by re-rolling all dices he can from his pool to help him (he can use a number of dices from combat pool up to his body rating in that case).

So combat pool dice are very precious cause when you roll them you really want to have success cause there's no way there coming back on the same roll. So you can spend karma to re-roll your attribute or skill rating(only the dice that ended up with no success) but you won't be allowed to re-roll your combat pool dice.

That way if you have 8 C.pool dices, you look at those colored dice and you know you get to roll those dice only once in the round. That's why you keep them apart and when you use them, you just push them away.

¸With that rule on, your character with only 3 in body that add poll dices to soak get to really wish the combat pool dices spawn some success on the roll to absorb damage. (but i really encourage my player to dodge with the pool instead of soak because of the automatic success the polol dices involved later on the soak roll)

MY QUESTION: can anyone show me where EXACTLY (which page??) in the rulebook. 3rd ed., it is stated the importance of keeping separated the dices from the pool and the normal ones???

SR3.43 AND SR3.104

Dammit,

I've played with a pretty harsh house rule for many years. It's my error. I've just check the base rulebook and frankly, i'me wrong. That just mean the game will be far more lethal, i mean if from now on my PC and NPC can re-roll ALL those dice with there karma pool, it's gonna be and incredible freakin bloody mess!

But hey, i gotta try it that way!(since player character have more pool and karma points than npc, my players are gonna be very happy with this!)

Thanks for the comment.

Spider, your players should occasionally run into someone with higher skill, higher Combat Pool, and/or higher Karma Pool. Otherwise they'll think they can solve every problem with combat, and that shouldn't be true.

...i've always solved those problems with more combat.

I didn't see the original question answered so here goes. The rule for missing with pool dice is from 2nd ed. in the combat section. There was no dodging and pools refreshed every action. It was a way to limit pool use. The rule stated that if you had more successes with pool than skill dice, you missed. This was also true with karma. You couldn't use it for a re-roll unless you actually generated a success on the skill test.

Woops, It was answered.

Maybe it's because I'm dumb or it's sim'ply due to teh fact taht english is not my motehr tongues but, from all your posts, I still do not understand the REAL reason why in 3rd ed. one must keep clear in mind what successes come from normal skill and what from dice pools. There isno real sense, to me, in keepinng any difference.

No real reason, other than convenience and memory aid. It may be grandfathered in from 2nd edition, when pool dice on damage resistance tests counted as a dodge test (i.e. Dodge tests were not rolled separately).

It actually seems there is no reason at all to use different collors for pool dice. Not in 3:d ed anyway. As I recall there were plenty of reasons in 2:d ed. Just look at it the same way as you look at rpg´s telling you you should use miniatures.