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Bachelor of Arts in Biology. Gogo liberal arts schools, people still wonder about the BA (vs BS) thing. smile.gif Graduated '99 and have been working in some flavor of biological research since.

And my Nerd Score is 41.
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Slamm-O)
After all there are those in life who cannot afford to go to college, or those who start their 'careers' before entering college.

Maybe it's just me and the fact that before I was in high school there were plans to find or make a way for me to get into college, but I refuse to believe that there is any college one cannot afford to attend if they have the will to do it.
Slamm-O
there was no way my parents could have ever afforded for any of their children to go school. Not only did they not have money to pay for college but we were under enormous pressure to get full time jobs as soon as we could (i left school after landing a decent one).

while i did earn some money from our state (something our governor had just introduced, money for college for high test scores), it wasnt enough. Also looking back i now know that i could have taken on loans (or even worked my way through as so many have), but my family needed the extra money i could bring in.

thank god neither me nor my parents had drug/alcohol/gambling problems, or else i would have a first hand experience in what seems to be pretty standard practice for many low income people (sadly): failure.

QUOTE
A college/university is pretty much just a meal ticket to higher economic status in most cases. It makes me think about the Wizard of Oz sometimes.

Still, there are billions of things you can learn in college and university that you cannot learn anywhere else. My significant other is learning how to manipulate genes using computerized simulations and the latest biotech lab toys. That's something you can't pick up from "life experiences" or even a technical school.


meal ticket statement is true, but if you can get by fine and raise a family on very little (my father make 25-30k, depending on when in my life were talking about, while raising a family of 7 in san jose, ca [pretty expensive]) i see any extra income as gravy, and selfish in many cases.

also what would keep a person from learning gene manipulation using books, the internet, and a computer to simulate the lab work?

Not that i dont see a use for uni though, i believe that its a tried and true way of aquiring skills our society needs, and greater material gain for those who seek it, But i took exception to what i saw as a bit of a backhanded blow in the post i quoted before, it seems to state that only fools would choose not to go through college, i just want to make it clear to solstice (and others thinking like him) that despite the perqs of college, it is not necessary for a good/happy life.

No reason to assume that folks who dropped out of college or never went are dumber or not as wise as you, thats all i mean to say. And i would think at least 90% of the people here or anywhere else would agree.

(for the record i voted never ged, i tested out using somehting we have in california that allows you to get your diploma early if you feel you are done with high school. said diploma is not a ged, it is for almost all states (not one, cant remember which) to be treated exactly like a diploma, and make a point of telling folks its not a ged all the time smile.gif. like it matters)

nerd score 46% less nerdy than i
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Slamm-O)
also what would keep a person from learning gene manipulation using books, the internet, and a computer to simulate the lab work?

Just some background, my sig other has been doing a lot of work in non-molecular biology for a while, and her current program is her first foray into molecular biology and genetics. She says that there are a lot of things that you simply cannot learn in that field without the supervision, mentorship, and input of professors, researchers, and academic scholars, none of which you can have access to on the Internet, computers, or books... you can learn some of the older stuff, but 5-10 years (the approximate age of the information in textbooks) is a long time in molecular biology research. While you can find gene research on the internet, you would have to have the background knowledge to make any sense or use of it, which is the fruit that is borne of being in a research/academic setting. Not to mention that cost of the computer simulations and the labwork is prohibitively expensive for an independent, non-funded biology student. Finally, if you intend to learn how to actually do most of this stuff and get paid for it, you will need the contacts, letters of recommendation, and opportunities provided by a good biotech program. Sure, it's a meal ticket... but in some professions, the only way to do the hard science that some people crave (like my sig other) is to enter through the doors of academia, and that means University/College.

This isn't to devalue the effort and fruit of a well-balanced education outside of an academic environment. But it's a bit naive to say you can learn anything just by having the Internet, a computer simulation, and some books.

The opposite example would be something like learning how to become a writer. Almost anyone can be a writer if they cultivate the talent, formal education notwithstanding. There are folks who go to University to get formal training, and still end up as unpublished writers. There are folks who haven't had a formal education beyond 8th grade that go on to become world renown writers and poets. There are many independently educated writers... I'd challenge you to come up with more than a few independently educated molecular biologists/geneticists.
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (Nikoli)
http://www.wxplotter.com/ft_nq.php?im


scored a 94% wink.gif

Damn, 97%...

/looks around for his missing pocket-protector
DrJest
Hmm, I went with "some college" since there wasn't an option for "diploma in flute from classical music college, dropped out, retrained in computer operations, retrained again in computer hardware installation (on the job), joined a folk music band, did okay, moved to Wales".

Understandably, I feel rotfl.gif
Solstice
I agree. I think it's highly unlikely for you to "pick up" knowledge of the sort that is taught in universities. Hence, why employers value degrees. Masters and Phd level instruction can only be found there 99% of the time. Oh there are all kinds of things that generally aren't taught in universities but the most important thing that comes from a university education is logic, problem solving and seeing things from every conceivable angle. This what uneducated people sometimes refer to as a "lack of common sense". Generally problem solving skills of that nature aren't something you can pickup without going to college. I'm sure any standarized test of non-college students vs. graduates can support that. Just me .02.
Sokei
being a history major i feel i could learn out of books just as easy without the tuition but being trained in mandarin chinese and japanese is not something you can pick up from a book or tape (without sounding like a tourist). so college is essential to high lvl language study , beyond that what ever floats your individual boats spin.gif
Nikoli
QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll)
QUOTE (Nikoli @ Feb 22 2005, 01:16 PM)
http://www.wxplotter.com/ft_nq.php?im


scored a 94% wink.gif

Damn, 97%...

/looks around for his missing pocket-protector

notworthy.gif
mintcar
Im just a wannabe according to that test. Im not sure about that though... Even though I really respect the extreme, expert knowledge of supreme nerds, I just lack that level of ambition. I guess Im a slacker more than a nerd. And Im happy with that.
Fortune
What actual score though? I want to know if I'm still the least nerdy one to have posted a result. biggrin.gif
mintcar
Well, you are still the least nerdy. Im the second least nerdy (I think) with a score of 28%. Thought it would be higher to be honest.
mintcar
Wonder how low your score needs to be for you to be concidered hip? (A pitty you cant expect to ever get the answer to that question if youre the one who asked it ) smile.gif
Fortune
I used to be hip, but then I got older and had to get it replaced. nyahnyah.gif
Kagetenshi
I'm so hip I have trouble seeing over my pelvis.

~J
FrostyNSO
9 here.

"Despises Nerds"

"...except on days when there's a Shadowrun game" rotfl.gif
FrostyNSO
QUOTE (Bigity)
College and schooling is nice, but it is far from the only source of education.

Some things can't be taught, and have to be learned.

That being said, having a degree or some kind does nothing but open doors in the workplace, even if people tend to put too much value into a piece of paper.

Do academies count as higher education, or on the job training? What about military technical schools?
kevyn668
QUOTE (FrostyNSO @ Feb 25 2005, 08:17 PM)
QUOTE (Bigity @ Feb 24 2005, 11:58 AM)
College and schooling is nice, but it is far from the only source of education.

Some things can't be taught, and have to be learned.

That being said, having a degree or some kind does nothing but open doors in the workplace, even if people tend to put too much value into a piece of paper.

Do academies count as higher education, or on the job training? What about military technical schools?

I'd say they count as higher education. The req's for getting into West Point (or any of the others) are pretty "high."
FrostyNSO
Well those of course. I was thinking more along the lines of police academies and whatnot.
kevyn668
Police Academies? Sure. I'd even go so far as to say other civilian tech schools count. A grad still gets some sort of certification. If you want to split hairs over it, schools like ITT Tech and the lot could be given a sperate catagory in the next poll like this that shows up. smile.gif
tisoz
There is an awful lot that can be learned if you have the desire to do so. Cutting edge technology, maybe not.

I attended one of the top engineering schools in the world and got passing grades without help from any faculty. The reason was the professors did not teach a class, their teaching assistants did. All the TAs for my math and science classes spoke a language other than english as their primary language. I do not think they could even converse in english, much less explain a damn thing. For reasons other than academic, I transferred after a year.

I graduated from what was/is supposed to be one of the top 10 business schools in the US. I paid my own way after the first year, so every course I took was one that was supposed to be meaningful in some way. No bowling, billiards, or basket weaving classes. My blow off classes were business courses, law courses, and creative writing courses. I dual majored and could have triple majored with one more semester in another business course.

My first semester at this school, I went into a final exam in a required math course and could have failed the exam with a high "F" and still had the highest point total of anyone enrolled in the course that semester. This was without really opening the book and blowing off a lot of the lectures about midway through the semester.

So the next semester after seeing a textbook that cost about twice what any of my other texts were running (co-authored by one of the professors of the Psychology course, another required course), I decided to do my own experiment and not bother reading the text. I did attend several boring lectures until the first exam, aced it, and only showed up for tests for the duration. Wound up with a C+.

The course I had an interest in, I read every book I could find in the library pertaining to them. Many were in a format much easier to understand than a textbook. Many contained the same principles.

I guess the point is, someone with some common sense and general knowledge can pass classes covering general knowledge. People could learn the same things I learned much less expensively by reading from the same publicly available library I read from. What you do get, as someone else mentioned, is the recommendations and introductions to a job market. Well, you get them if you did well in the class or sucked up to the professor. You get an endorsement from an institution saying I made it through their BS. It does not mean you learned anything.

I have made way more money and had way more fun working at a job I wish I had started at instead of wasting time and money going to school. I say working because it is a lot like being on vacation. Especially if you have crappy vacations every now and then. wink.gif I see guys I worked with for years and try to get them to quit. When I have a bad day now, I say at least I don't work at ****ing *****, and it truly raises my spirits. Learn the secret of money, and you will always find it.

Sorry for boring everyone.
Endgame50
QUOTE (Slamm-O)

(for the record i voted never ged, i tested out using somehting we have in california that allows you to get your diploma early if you feel you are done with high school. said diploma is not a ged, it is for almost all states (not one, cant remember which) to be treated exactly like a diploma, and make a point of telling folks its not a ged all the time smile.gif. like it matters)

nerd score 46% less nerdy than i

Oh I'm so jealous. High school was four years of my life wasted, honestly.

For the record, I'm nerdier than 74% of the world.
Solstice
92%??!! eek.gif
Corporate Raider
I have a Bachelors of Science in Mathematics and Bachelor of Arts in Economics. I agree with an earlier reply that the best skills learned in college are logic, critical thinking, and problem solving, not necessarily the subject matter of your degree.
FrostyNSO
You want problem solving?

How do you arrest a 7 foot, 350 lb ex marine on PCP who is standing in a parking lot putting his fist through windshields and talking to god?
Crimsondude 2.0
Carefully.
hahnsoo
Lay out a bunch of twinkies filled with sedatives, and wait? *grin*
Sokei
start filling in for the part of god in his conversation and get him to eat said sedative twinkies.


"you want the twinkie"

"no god i dont want twinkies, i want to smash windows"

"listen bitch , eat the twinkie! dont make me smite you!"
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
You want problem solving?

How do you arrest a 7 foot, 350 lb ex marine on PCP who is standing in a parking lot putting his fist through windshields and talking to god?

Any problem can be solved through judicious application of sufficient violence.

~J
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