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Moon-Hawk
2 questions:
1) What exactly constitutes a voluntary target? MitS pg 56 tells us that anyone who is aware of the spell and does not resist is voluntary, also anyone unconscious is considered voluntary. What about someone under a Control Thoughts spell (SR3 pg. 196) to make someone volunteer? Does that work?

also

2) What happens when a voluntary target changes their mind or wakes up or for any reason decides they are no longer voluntary? Does the spell automatically fail, or is it too late?

Thanks.
Tarantula
#1 brings up some interesting points, of which I don't know.

#2 is too late. I'm sorry, the time for resisting is when the spell is cast, you can't resist after the fact simply because you were knocked out.
Bigity
I would say you can't use magic to make someone a voluntary target. You can lie to them, and convince them they are about to get a Glamor spell or something, but I wouldn't allow magical alterations of it.
Jrayjoker
Treachery and tricketry are OK, but magic is not able to compel someone to accept a spell IMO.
U_Fester
So you could get someone to voluntere to have a fireball cast on him if by using a mind spell on them first?
Edward
Control thoughts might be enough to do it. After all if you cast it on a mage (getting past his will) you can implant a thought to make him cast a spell.

Also I donít see a balance problem as once you have somebody under a control thoughts spell you have already defeated them and can make them give you any information you want. It is only even useful in the strangest of circumstances (saving somebody that would rather die)

I would probably allow it.

Edward
Tarantula
Well, in theory, if you cast armor on someone who didn't want it, they'd get to try to resist. Or heal, or any other beneficial spell. So, as Edward said, if you already control their thoughts at best you can make them live longer. I suppose the worst use of it I can think of is to control a meaty troll ganger, toss armor and such on him, and use him as your bullet shield/decoy man while the rest of the team does the real work.
Charon
Well, I'd argue that you can no more be the willing target of a fireball than the willling target of a bullet. You still make a body resistance test in both case even if some wizworm puppetmaster is making you hold still at the moment.

BTW I'd argue that someone who is under a control thought has not become willing for anything you force him to do. He just can't resist doing it. He's probably screaming inside his head for the duration. And he'll get a chance to break enchantment when you try to get him to hold still for a fireball if he sees it coming. That would fall under 'Commands that the target is deeply opposed to' IMO.
U_Fester
QUOTE (Charon)
He's probably screaming inside his head for the duration.

When you say it that way, it makes it sound so poetic love.gif
BitBasher
QUOTE
also anyone unconscious is considered voluntary.
That's not right, in the canon rules an unconscious target automatically is NOT a voluntary target for any spell except beneficial health spells. They automatically resist all magic.

I would rule that no, control thoughts cannot make someone voluntary. That's a sunconcious action, not conscious thought, which explains why while sleeping target automatically resists all spells.

Moon-Hawk
That's not quite right either, BitBasher. (although neither was I)

MitS pg. 56
QUOTE
Unconscious targets are considered voluntary targets for health spells.  For all other spells, voluntary targets must be aware the spell is being case.


It never says beneficial health spells.
Thanks for catching that, I had misread that section.
BitBasher
Aaaah, okay, I was close enough wink.gif
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