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Weredigo
Sitting at Denny's late one night we were all having "Shadowrun discussion" I blurted out a question. "Is it possible to produce a motorcycle with only one wheel."
GM: "They alreayd have them, those little clown motorcycles."
We: "No, I mean a Street Legal, Mid to high powered Motorcycle?"
GM: "Mid to High power?"
We: "Yeah, would do Speed Limit or over depending on the rider"
GM: <to his wife> "I've been bit by a casaba melon, again," <to me> "how would you keep it balanced?"
We: "A system using a Sphere and a Gyroscope, with Electromagnets, computer signals attractive or repellant charge along whichever point requires it"
GM: "So it's ride by wire, like a Hornet."
We: "Pretty much"
and it just snowballed from there.
(houserule)

The Cherrybomb
Handling 1/2 (for fearless and non carefull riders) 2/4 (for carefull riders
Speed (in MPH) 65/170 ( except for the 3 electro magnetic balancers, engine, and rider there's not much weight to it)
Body 1 ( offers no protection, unless it's parked and yer using it as cover, and if you crash the thing, forget fixing it, it's gone, scrap, buy another one, and granted they can be turned at most 180 degrees on a dollar, they rarely stop on a dime)
Armor 0
Signature 3 ( those electromagnets send out a real easy to detect signal )
Autopilot 0
Seating 1
Fuel 20ounces distilled water. ( we were looking at the fuel requirements this contraption would need and decided it couldn't be done without cold fusion )
Cargo 0
Cost 100 nuyen.gif ( They thought it was a good idea at the time, it hit the market, and caused so many accidents they were about to discontinue due to a severe sales drop, Someone reccomended dropping the price. )

Sometimes I swear they add psychotropic drugs to the kettle wash they call Coffee at Dennys.

What other houserule vehicles are out there?
Tanka
Well, for one, AFAIK, there isn't cold fusion in the canon SR world.

For two, psychotropic drugs in the coffee would make you want to eat at Denny's and Denny's only. Not make you think weird things.
Garland
Cold fusion for 100?

House rule indeed.

I'm also not clear on the handling. The way you have it actually makes psychotic drivers safer than cautious drivers.
Pthgar
Look here

No cold fusion needed, just google-fu.
Lindt
And its done without cold bloody fusion...
Herald of Verjigorm
Since handling is the base TN for any driving test, shouldn't it be higher for the speed freak suicidals than the cautious?
mfb
there should be no way a one-wheeled vehicle has an offroad handling of 2. compared to that, cold fusion is sane.
Austere Emancipator
Those monocycles are totally sweet, dude!

Weredigo: This is exactly the kind of situation where it might be a good idea to give a bit of background about your game first when springing something like cold fusion in a tiny space and insignificant weight for only 100 nuyen.

Cold fusion does exist in the canon SR world, though, since apparently it was first successfully used by the LA Power & Water in 2027. However, in any near-canon world, the Electric Battery and Electric Fuel Cell power plants would be far better suited for this. For further discussion, I suppose we should all simply assume that cold fusion is very common, accessible to everyone and dirt cheap in Weredigo's games.

Herald of Verjigorm: Absolutely correct.
mfb: Agreed, except that I still feel a miniature, very efficient cold fusion reactor for a few nuyen is still slightly more insane.
Pthgar
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
Cold fusion does exist in the canon SR world, though, since apparently it was first successfully used by the LA Power & Water in 2027.

Can we get a reference for that? Not doubting, just curious.
SirKodiak
Hmmm, so this reminds me of a question, do they still have Segway in the future? And, if there is cold fusion, how fast can it go? And do they make versions size-appopriate for Dwarves and Trolls? Because nothing says Troll gunbunny like a motorized scooter.
Kagetenshi
I can't find a reference to cold fusion, but the opening story in SR3 involves a hit on a fusion reactor and the Arc has three in the basement.

~J
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (SirKodiak)
Hmmm, so this reminds me of a question, do they still have Segway in the future? And, if there is cold fusion, how fast can it go? And do they make versions size-appopriate for Dwarves and Trolls? Because nothing says Troll gunbunny like a motorized scooter.

Not sure what purpose these would serve in SR aside from aesthetics.
John Campbell
Fusion plants exist in Shadowrun, and it's possible to put them in vehicles, using the Rigger 3 rules.

The only vehicles capable of taking them, however, are ships with Hull Ratings instead of Body... and only the larger types of those. We're talking aircraft carriers, attack subs and boomers, cruisers, and large-to-OMFG freighters. Nothing with a Hull Rating lower than 5, and not even the Hull-5 destroyers.

The cheapest of those plants costs 100,000 design points, which, given the basic multiplier on that hull, works out to 20,000,000. (And that doesn't actually include the hull. Just the power plant.)

Fusion power in Shadowrun is neither compact nor cheap.
SirKodiak
QUOTE
Not sure what purpose these would serve in SR aside from aesthetics.


It's an interface for a vehicle so simple even a troll can use it.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (Pthgar)
Can we get a reference for that? Not doubting, just curious.

I found it in Uncle Ancient's Guide to Nuclear Mojo. Where AH took it from, I have no idea.
Weredigo
Don't forget this bike is completely houserule.
QUOTE
I'm also not clear on the handling. The way you have it actually makes psychotic drivers safer than cautious drivers.

Have an easier time with the motorcycle yes, be safer, no. Just because they want to pull off that nifty stunt doesn't mean they should. Don't forget they don't exactly stop on a dime.
QUOTE
there should be no way a one-wheeled vehicle has an offroad handling of 2. compared to that, cold fusion is sane.

Good point. Those were the numbers he came up with. Where would you put it?

A Troll on a scooter, the only problem I can see with that would be that the engine on that poor scooter would burn out quick. That's a lot of load to put on such a small and low power machine. If there could be some way of getting around that it might be fun. It's not like Trolls really need to be behind buttloads of armor anyways IMHO.
Arethusa
You talk about electromagnets to keep it balanced... how the hell could that possibly work?
Pthgar
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
QUOTE (Pthgar)
Can we get a reference for that? Not doubting, just curious.

I found it in Uncle Ancient's Guide to Nuclear Mojo. Where AH took it from, I have no idea.

Also in the 6th World Wiki. I finally found it in on page 16 of SR 1st edition. I did not find it in SR3. It may be in SR2 but I don't have that anymore.
John Campbell
QUOTE (Weredigo)
Don't forget this bike is completely houserule.

To the point of being completely useless to anyone but you. You cannot put a fusion plant in something as small as a scooter without totally redefining the world's tech level, which has much farther-reaching effects than allowing powered unicycles.

And Shadowrun provides vehicle-design rules, anyway, which can be pretty easily adapted to build something like this. Here's one I whipped off in five minutes:

Handling: 2/5
Speed: 99
Accel.: 6
Body: 2
Armor: 0
Sig.: 5
Auto.: 0
Pilot: 0
Sensor: 0
Cargo: 0 CF
Load: 0 kg
Seating: 1m
Entry: -
Fuel: Electric Battery (125PF)
Econ.: 0.5km/PF
Chassis: Scooter
SI: 1
Avail.: 2/24hrs
Cost: 9,550
Features: GridLink Power, Drive-By-Wire 1, Gyrostabilization

It does not, you might note, require cold fusion. It doesn't even use fancy-dancy stuff like electric fuel cells. Just a plain old battery. The range isn't all that hot, but it can tap the grid for power in cities, and I really wouldn't want to do long-haul driving with something like this, anyway. It could be improved easily enough, too, but that'd jack the price or the size significantly.
hahnsoo
I'll just take my shoebox-sized Cold Fusion reactor, attach a handheld particle accelerator to it, and then run around capturing spirits with it into another shoebox-sized containment unit. Then I'll get some musician to write a theme song for me and totally ruin his career. I'll call it "Spirit Crackers" or "Spectre Getters"...
Weredigo
Hey Cool... don't know about the 99 speed and the price though. They're supposed to be rather cheap and expendable. After a crash a GOOD technician could probly pick it for maybe 25 from the player or from police auction and get it working again. Afterwards sell it for retail value.

As far as the speed goes. I wouldn't want any player taking this thing up to 200mph or over. The chances of getting into an accident get higher the faster you go, and the chances of surviving a crash on one of these things get's real slim. 99 MPH I can go with.


QUOTE

You talk about electromagnets to keep it balanced... how the hell could that possibly work?

Kinda like how electromagnets move a fan, but in an omnidirectional x/y/z axis, instead of just two different directions on one axis. the electromagnets are mounted inside the sphere, and two are mounted on the one of the Rings of they gyroscope, the rings on the gyroscope would be energized by motion and static, on the sphere, depending on if a tweak in balance is needed would be energized by computer.
Arethusa
Erm, 99 speed, I believe, translates into 99 m / 3 sec, or 118k/h. Not exactly 99miles/h. But still unreasonably high for a vehicle you're going to be trying damn hard just to hold onto at that speed. 99 miles per hour would be completely ludicrous.

Your description of using electromagnets for stability makes no sense at all.
hahnsoo
He's talking about a gyroscope in which the rotation is powered using magnets.
Weredigo
not exactly, the gyroscopes movement is supplied by the bikes engine, some brushes on some of the inner rings create static electricity that energizes the two EM's on the outer rings, which move in close proximity to a Field of EM's that are secured to the inside of a sphere. you send a signal to one of the Field EM's either to attract or repel, and it's going to create a little bit of motive force at that one single location.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Weredigo @ Feb 25 2005, 03:04 AM)
not exactly, the gyroscope moves on it's own, some brushes on some of the inner rings create static electricity that energizes the two EM's on the outer rings, which move in close proximity to a Field of EM's that are secured to the inside of a sphere.  you send a signal to one of the Field EM's either to attract or repel, and it's going to create a little bit of motive force at that one single location.

*sighs*

You're talking about a gyroscope in which the rotation is powered using magnets. A similar concept is called an electromagnetic generator, and is commonly used to convert motive power into electrical power.
Weredigo
incorrect, I've seen the guts of electromagnetic generators, I know how to check them and see if they're slavagable or scrap. I'm talking about taking a ball, and using gyroscope and electromagnets on the inside to apply force on either it's bottom, top, front, back, left side, right side, or anyother points in between.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Weredigo @ Feb 25 2005, 03:16 AM)
incorrect, I've seen the guts of electromagnetic generators, I know how to check them and see if they're slavagable or scrap.  I'm talking about taking a ball, and using gyroscope and electromagnets on the inside to apply force on either it's bottom, top, front, back, left side, right side, or anyother points in between.

The technology you are describing is obviously reproducible using even 1960's tech, so I'd like for you to provide some sources for your claims. Or, you can create the world's first perpetual motion machine.
Weredigo
nah, wouldn't be PPM. The static generated only powers 2 EM's. While you have at least 6, or many many more on the side of the sphere. Still have to provide electricity to those and then provide motion to the gyroscope.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Weredigo)
nah, wouldn't be PPM. The static generated only powers 2 EM's. While you have at least 6, or many many more on the side of the sphere. Still have to provide electricity to those and then provide motion to the gyroscope.

Well, you already have man-portable Cold Fusion. A perpetual motion machine shouldn't be too far behnd.
Sandoval Smith
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (Weredigo @ Feb 25 2005, 03:16 AM)
incorrect, I've seen the guts of electromagnetic generators, I know how to check them and see if they're slavagable or scrap.  I'm talking about taking a ball, and using gyroscope and electromagnets on the inside to apply force on either it's bottom, top, front, back, left side, right side, or anyother points in between.

The technology you are describing is obviously reproducible using even 1960's tech, so I'd like for you to provide some sources for your claims. Or, you can create the world's first perpetual motion machine.

Well, if I understand it right, it wouldn't quite be a perpetual motion machine, since you'd be burning electricity to alternate the active magnets and eventually drain the battery. It'd be a very odd vehicle. Personally, I'm having much more fun imagining the go-gang that motors around on Segways.
Weredigo
Japanese Teens are known to gather in scooter groups. Nothing like a hardcore criminal gang. Said Go-gang would probably be a group of Yaks in training or possibly triad.
Sandoval Smith
You're mistake is that you are taking it seriously. Segways are those ridiculous, two wheeled, upright, remind me a lot of a push powered lanwnmower things. The thought of a bunch of scruffy metahumans (at least one troll) cruising...slowly...down...the...
street, looking tough and ready to rumble, on their shiny, new upright scooters is a highly amusing one. For me anyway.

And I saw one of the local 'bazoku' gangs the other night at a friend's apartment. One guy with an actual honda of some sort, three dirt bikes, one guy on a scooter, and one guy, I kid you not, on a one speed bicycle. I'm surprised the Japanese police are brave enough to leave the police station.
Cray74
QUOTE (Pthgar)
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator @ Feb 24 2005, 05:17 PM)
Cold fusion does exist in the canon SR world, though, since apparently it was first successfully used by the LA Power & Water in 2027.


Can we get a reference for that? Not doubting, just curious.

Cold fusion pollutes the pages of the CalFreeState Sourcebook.
Tarantula
Weredigo, theres this thing, in R3R, called a Gyrostabalization Unit. It lets riggers drive motorcycles without having anyone on them to balance them. Use that, it already exists, and you don't have to argue with anyone about the possibility of it, or about how it works.

Also, TBH, I'd give this thing for a rider, handling of 3-4 offroad 6+.
Pthgar
QUOTE (Weredigo @ Feb 25 2005, 04:04 AM)
not exactly, the gyroscopes movement is supplied by the bikes engine, some brushes on some of the inner rings create static electricity that energizes the two EM's on the outer rings, which move in close proximity to a Field of EM's that are secured to the inside of a sphere.  you send a signal to one of the Field EM's either to attract or repel, and it's going to create a little bit of motive force at that one single location.

That is so needlesly complex it borders on German engineering.
Nikoli
The problem with that design is that magnetic fields are notoriously unstable, even EM fields which are arguably the most predictable of the magnetics cannot be 100% predicted to function the same way at any given moment.

Centrifical force is still and likely will remain the most effiecient and predictable method for gyrostabilization. If you are worried about counter rotating, mount a second stabilizer in the oposite direction, still stable and none of that annoying turning.
John Campbell
QUOTE (Weredigo)
Hey Cool...  don't know about the 99 speed and the price though.  They're supposed to be rather cheap and expendable.  After a crash a GOOD technician could probly pick it for maybe 25 from the player or from police auction and get it working again.  Afterwards sell it for retail value.

The price is largely due to the Drive-by-Wire and the Gyrostabilization, which are pretty useless game-mechanically, but necessary to make it fit your description. Dropping those would cut the price about in half with only minor effects on its performance. But without at least the Gyrostabilization, the one-wheeled design you describe would simply fall over.

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with the price, either, despite it not meeting your expectations... there's no reason that what you describe should be cheap. Like the Segway, it's a complex and expensive computerized solution to a problem that can be fixed cheaply and easily just by adding another wheel, and much of the price comes directly from the necessity for that solution. The rest of it is straight-up performance enhancement, increasing the base speed, accel, and range of the scooter chassis.

QUOTE
As far as the speed goes.  I wouldn't want any player taking this thing up to 200mph or over.  The chances of getting into an accident get higher the faster you go, and the chances of surviving a crash on one of these things get's real slim.  99 MPH I can go with. 

The speed isn't 99 MPH, it's 99m/turn, which works out to 118km/h, or about 74 MPH. That's a bit higher than what you quoted as maximum safe speed, largely because the DBW provides a 10% speed bonus that I'd forgotten about when I set its base speed, and I didn't feel like going back and reworking it with a reduced base speed.
Weredigo
QUOTE
Weredigo, theres this thing, in R3R, called a Gyrostabalization Unit. It lets riggers drive motorcycles without having anyone on them to balance them. Use that, it already exists, and you don't have to argue with anyone about the possibility of it, or about how it works.

Also, TBH, I'd give this thing for a rider, handling of 3-4 offroad 6+.


Thanks, That'd work.
QUOTE
DBW provides a 10% speed bonus that I'd forgotten about when I set its base speed, and I didn't feel like going back and reworking it with a reduced base speed.

I can do that in my head. brings it up to 81mph
Austere Emancipator
That's not what he meant. I assume you are not at all familiar with the R3 vehicle design rules?

Just because I'm bored, I'll do up a cheapo version of this in a few minutes.
Austere Emancipator
Aztech Segway Mk XVII

Handling: 3/6
Speed: 60
Accel.: 3
Body: 2
Armor: 0
Sig.: 5
Auto.: 1
Sensor: 0
Cargo: 0 CF
Load: 10 kg
Seating: 1m
Entry: -
Fuel: Electric Battery (100PF)
Econ.: 0.5km/PF
Chassis: Scooter
SI: 1
Avail.: 2/24hrs
Cost: 1,045
Features: GridLink Power, Gyrostabilization
Complex Chassis (+2 TN on all B/R Tests)

Note: Handling and Speed simply do not get worse than that for an Electric Battery Scooter in canon. If you wish, you can of course drop the Speed and up the Handling (I'd use 4/10 or so). I figured Autonav-1 would make sense since this is probably supposed to be used by people without any skills for its operation -- and it only costs 50 for this vehicle anyway.

You could add Cargo Space to it, for 10 per 0.2CF up to 2 CF, some kind of box under the seat or tacked on to the vehicle somewhere. Reasonably, 0.4 - 0.6 CF should be the cap. If you wish, you can also add more Load to it at 10 per 10kg, up to a maximum total of 40kg.
Weredigo
You are correct. Have null books on Rigger3. Have Rigger Black book from first edition. in fact everything I have is first edition. Picked everything up at used books stores like HalfPrice, and Bookmans.
Pthgar
QUOTE (Weredigo)
You are correct. Have null books on Rigger3. Have Rigger Black book from first edition. in fact everything I have is first edition. Picked everything up at used books stores like HalfPrice, and Bookmans.

This goes into the "Information useful to have beforehand" catagory.
Kenshi
On a side note, there IS something to be said about the connection between the brown swill that Denny's passes off as coffee and bizarre Shadowrun conversations. Me and my friends have experienced this freakish side-effect many times... dead.gif
The Grifter
Gotta agree on that one, chummer. Totally.
Weredigo
QUOTE
This goes into the "Information useful to have beforehand" catagory.


covered previously in other posts
John Campbell
QUOTE (Weredigo)
QUOTE
DBW provides a 10% speed bonus that I'd forgotten about when I set its base speed, and I didn't feel like going back and reworking it with a reduced base speed.

I can do that in my head. brings it up to 81mph

No, the other way around. The 10% bonus is already figured into the numbers I gave. The original base speed was 90, or about 67 MPH... a little higher than the 65 you gave, but it's a nice round number. It got bumped up to 99 when I added in the 10% bonus from the DBW. (The bonus can actually be split up between Load, Speed, and Accel, but Speed seemed like the only useful place to put it in this case.)

90 is also, incidentally, maximum base speed for a scooter, which is another part of the reason the thing is relatively expensive. AE's version probably makes more sense, but adheres less closely to the description you gave.
Weredigo
Oops, sorry my bad. What I'll prolly end up doing is just take the two different description's and meld them together. When in doubt, guestimate.

Like from the movie Armageddon
QUOTE
It's about the size of Texas Mr President
Nikoli
Just a nit pick on the seqway you posted, i don't think it could move an average mass human (75 kilos or so). load applies to passengers as well as cargo IIRC
Herald of Verjigorm
No, passenger load is accounted for by any "seating" the vehicle has. So "Seating: 1" means it can hold one character (probably only up to ork size) and their standard outfitting before dipping into the load.

This has the odd effect than an ork can ride without trouble, but two gnomes may overload the vehicle, but it is the rule in the book.
Austere Emancipator
What HoV said. The seating covers the weight of the passengers and any gear the passengers have on themselves. Incidentally, there's no entry for motorcycle seating (which is what "1m" refers to) on r3.154-155, so R3 doesn't actually say anywhere what the load limit of a motorcycle seat is.

A basic bucket seat can fit a single 150kg passenger, that's probably a good baseline. Unfortunately you cannot have a made-for-trolls Segway, since you'd need a 150kg Load Rating at min. Although, hmm, you could pull that off with a Gasoline Scooter with Drive-By-Wire 3...
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