Alright, here's the thing. What do you do if one of the PCs, who's been playing since the beginning of the campaign (100 good karma earned) goes to the fixer (who gets them jobs) and says "I can't work with the new person that you hired for the last run" (who is a new character that was made because the player's previous character became unplayable)?

Basically the new character doesn't work well with the team. Such as, during the first meet she attended, cast (well, tried to cast. It the spell was defeated in astral combat within seconds of casting) Influence on one of the other PCs (who has about 50 good karma)


However, the player is a friend, and claims to want to play, but keeps making characters that don't really do anything. And, btw, the player knows how to play (as he is the one who taught me how to play).

This is the problem. Any suggestions?

sounds like the 'problem' player is bored with playing runners.

Have you tried talking to the offending player?
I had a similar situation recently and I told the player quite bluntly "the path you're choosing will put you in direct conflict with the other PCs, and they'll probably kill you."
That was all it took for him to shape up -- I don't think he was doing it deliberately.

If that doesn't work, let the other PCs kill him (or refuse to work with him, effectively forcing his character to retire). If his next character isn't better-behaved, I'd probably ask him to leave the game.

On the other hand, one of my past GMs took such a "problem character" and turned her into an enemy -- still under PC control. The player would show up every few sessions and try to kill us all while we were busy with a run. Not that I'd recommend this approach -- but oddly enough that was one of the best games I've played in

Let the enmity between the player grow. Hell, nurse it a bit. Then have the player that doesn't work well with others work against them. A little rivalry can be a good thing.

The longest game I played in had a lot of party tension, and that makes sense. Criminals are inherently untrustworthy and know that most people in there profession are such.

It is notable that we had no less than 4 PC deaths at the hands of one or more other party members, none of these caused a problem with the rest of the party. (There where other issues but the deaths of party members as not it).

Now logically if a fixer gets a call saying I cant work with the new guy he will check with the rest of the teem (I am assuming they will agree), if he wants to save the group he will call in the new guy and tell him to act like a professional, criminals may not be trustworthy but you cant afford to betray the limited trust your teem mates give you. If it continues to be a problem (one more chance only and on a unimportant run) get rid of him.

Personally if my character had been the intended target of the influence spell he would have been dead. I can not abide somebody messing with my mind, trying it is almost the quickest way to make my enemies list, doing it when your supposed to be working with me is the only one faster (unless I am playing timothy carter in witch case doing anything inappropriate to his 12 year old daughter is faster).

Edward

Quite. The one time another player tried running an influence spell on one of my PCs, I burned a shitload of karma, jsut to have the satisfaction of saving against the spell and filling his head with lead.

I'm with Edward here.

As a player, if another PC attempted to cast a mind control spell on me without my knowledge and consent (and I can't think offhand of any reason I would ever consent to one), I would do my best to kill them dead at the first decent opportunity. I'd certainly never work with them, except perhaps to set them up for a bullet through the brainpan. If I witnessed them attempting it on another PC, I might not immediately react violently, but I'd certainly never trust them to watch my back, and would be prepared to kill them instantly if it appeared necessary.

As a GM, I'd have no problem at all with the controlled PC, or any of the others, killing the caster. I'd probably consider it bad role-playing if they didn't at least throw the character's ass out of the group so hard that he bounced. Intra-party harmony only goes so far, and expecting PCs to work with someone who attempts to fragging mind control them is waaaay beyond reasonable. And I'd tell him this when he told me that he was going to try casting against another PC. If he insisted, I'd let him do it, but I'd make sure that he knew that I wasn't going to protect him from the consequences.

My solution would probably be something along the lines of telling the problem player that his character's been told to never come back (or just letting the other PCs kill him), and allowing him to make a new character (or recycle the same stats as a different person, if making a new character would be too time-consuming). Then if he pulled shit like that again, he'd be out of the game.

Well, that's good. Just making sure i'm not the only one who thinks that.

In my game, they'd imitate HEAT and get all Neil Cauley on his Waingro ass.

personally if it is causing that much trouble i would, point out that though you can play a one man game its not as much fun. Having a volatile character adds for a bit of fun in the game but if it is ruining it for the outher characters its not on. Tell em to buck there ideas up or have the character meet with a nasty accident.

I have an arsey character but depending on who i am playing with gages how much i can get away with, there is nothing wrong with roleplaying well but there are limits.

your problem sounds like ether a bad roleplayer or a selfish person.


torz x

just keep killing him as players or not working with his characters ,eventually he will come in line or quit.

Its not just PCs, if I am running an NPC and somebody tries to mind control them that NPC will immediately hate you (there being some extraordinary situations that may change that). All mind control magic is illegal without very hard to get permits (imposable in some jurisdictions). This is for the very good reason that NOBODY wants there mind to be messed with by somebody else.

Of cause the response would be purely in character, merely the threat of being mind probed will get some people to babble out al there secrets but they will hate/fear you for it and if they ever find themselves with the power to hurt you they will be that much more likely to use it..

To be honest I like a bit of tension between the party, preferably not so much that characters die repeatedly but it ads something to the reality of the SR world that your not always working with people you trust totally.

Edward

It sounds like you are having problems with the person rather than the game, have you asked if he/she has a problem? is it possible that they resent not being able to play the old character? i would have words because you don't want a real situation on your hands, it could lead to other members of the group not wanting to play anymore and then it had been ruined for everyone.

torz x

Honestly, I've dealt with player conflict before. It's generally rather annoying, but it is the person's character, so they can play them as an arse-hat if they really want.

However, other players can choose to censure said arsehat, especially in a game like Shadowrun, where you have a lot of control over who you decide to work with. Basically, I'd have the offending mind controlling PC get scrapped--can't work with *this* group any more, so is effectively "dead" for playing purposes.

Then I'd take the player aside and talk about playing nice. Else, just keep "killing" off the characters as the group decides they're getting too obnoxious. I'd draw the line though, if said player began to try to do the human bomb thing in an effort to destroy the group.

I'm the GM for that last run, so I'll answere a few of the questions that I can.

The reason the person's former character couldn't play is, ironically, a conflict with another character. His former character was a mage who was trying to stop astral pollution. One of our characters is a walking background count, so it would have caused major issues. (armor spell lock, increase int quickend, all stats quickend, and a lvl 10 specific spell focus. doesn't seem to understand the level of screwidg I can bring down on him. And were playing 2nd edition. And yes, I have a plan. bwawawawaww)

Anywho, I didn't do anything yet because I simply assumed they'd kill him or that the player would play a new character next time.

I guess I do need to have something major happen the next time if the players don't do it. Problem is, I'm gonna have to do that with several people anyway and am not looking forward to it. Oh well, the curse of GMing, neh?

Between-character tension works only if the group is already cohesive, or if the tension actually improves group cohesion. The danger, especially for already shaky groups, is that in-game tensions become out-of-game tensions. From there, it's a short step to the group falling apart.

There's obviously a problem with how the new character is fitting in -- heck, apparently with the way all the characters being created by this new player are fitting in. I too would want to know how the previous character became unplayable. I'd also want to know whether these sentiments have been expressed only by one (player) character, or by others as well, because that will make a difference to how you will end up dealing with it.

Since you mention that the new player does, in your experience, know how to play (well? knows the rules? roleplaying? extensive previous experience in a group? any one of these doesn't necessarily imply the others), it might even be something as basic as game "tone": what is the new player looking for, in this particular game? Is it the same as for the group?

All that being said, most players will react badly to any attempt to mind control ... although Influence is one of the mildest forms of this. "Realistically", most characters shouldn't even realise that an attempt had been made to influence them ... at least, not magically. Yet within "realism", in some contexts, why wouldn't a character reasonably use this particular spell (as opposed to, say, Control Thoughts) to gloss over a point? Once a character has such a spell, the temptation to use it to "shortcut" every difficulty has to be significant. (Must ... resist ... Willow ... reference ...)

Different groups draw different limits as to what is considered acceptable -- and some don't flinch at drawn guns as part of standard in-group "discussion". What makes mind control spells different is the perceived loss of free will -- yet staring down the barrel of a loaded gun tends to inhibit personal freedom of choice as well.

I'll add, finally, that the one time I brought a character into an established group with a personality that demanded this "shortcut" be used whenever possible/"necessary" -- which meant she'd have to use it during the initial encounter, or be a different personality altogether -- I cleared it with the group first, and we in effect metagamed the initial encounter so as to bring her into the group as a long-term asset without compromising anyone's personality. Incidentally, that initial encounter ended with her having a katana across her throat, during which time she learned the in-game rules of the group, understood the in-game rules of the group, and developed great incentive to obey the rules of the group.

The situation was as follows:

They walk into a brunch with a fixer. He looks at one of the non-magically active charicter, and tried to use a "implant thought" spell. Later he stated this spell was to give the comand, protect me. I've no doubt it was in the character of the PC, however, it is something that will generate a lot of tension. If it happens, I may have to do something, but I'd rather it played out in char. I hate doing hand of god unless poeple do something that is outright dumb. Like say, carrying 2 hmg down main street while calling Lofwyr a pansy.

Hi!
So, I created a SN just so that I could respond to this thread.
I'm said player.
**Accepts the flames, doesn't try to dodge, stages damage down to S, casts treat, then moves on**
Yeah....
So, a few notes:
First off, Chibu was right, and the GM was wrong, it was Influence that I was casting, not some self written "implant thought" spell. (although yes, I did have her using one self written spell, I do try to keep relatively canon)

I'm going to try to respond to things on a point by point basis, so bear with me.
And (while most of you don't know me, the two who do should expect this) yeah, I'll prolly play a new charrie next time we play, although I had absolutely ZERO intent of that before reading this post... I kinda liked Raven. (no, that's not her name, it's just what she goes by, yes it seems cliche' but there's reason for it, .... other than the blatantly obvious of she's a raven shaman).

sounds like the 'problem' player is bored with playing runners.
Hmm.... yeah, that's definately one interperetation. Yes, I have played almost everything ever a million times... (or so it seems some days), and yeah, the stereotypical runner I am bored with. I like interesting characters these days, and realistic characters. Characters with families, with motivations, with goals (other than get more money to buy better programs), with backstories. I think that these are realistic (if not good) runners, and I think they're fun to play.

but keeps making characters that don't really do anything.
This could be a granted statement.
No, my raven shaman doesn't do combat. .... she IS a raven shaman.
No, my astral cleaner/researcher didn't do combat. She was a heady character, she had physical science at 6, theory/astral at 5/7, and astral forensics at 6. No, I didn't realize that we were going to germany to fight terrorists. But even so, I had martial arts. Was she the physad of Killing hands doom? NO. was she the cyberpsycho sammy? No. but if we'd been in a mystery situation, she'd've kicked royal ass. No offence intended Chibu, but I think that part of why you found her so useless was the mexican accent. your character wrote her off imediately and so you apparently followed suit. No, I didn't make her have a mexican accent to add dynamic tension to your azzy-hating uber-adept, I did it because she spent at least 5 years studying the fovae. She'd have to know spanish for that, and would've spent fair time in Aztlan.
And yes, I did infact choose to nix her out of defference to Mike (the guy with the 8 quickenings 2 spell locks, and force 10 spell focus). I didn't want to cause undue character strife. I didn't feel like bringing a fight into the group, and the character herself didn't exactly fit into the group dynamic.

My character before that (whom I played for about 6-8 runs before having to miss a run or two, and being uninformed/forgetting about a few later runs) I found fun, interesting, AND useful to the extream.
Something about a face/decker/stealther who can handle combat who I think of as a pretty useful character. Now yes, admittedly I wasted a LOT of points. The 700,000 Y of starting equipment that was neigh useless but help round out her character, yes. not the most useful. Could I have built a 'deck with that money? Obviously! but to me, having that as a character goal seemed a LOT cooler.
To those of you not part of this campaign, that character became unplayable as she began actually attaining some of her character goals (she was becoming famous). She had raked in the cash needed to go independent, and the amount of money that I was earning made the DM (mortax) somewhat uncomfortable (whether he'd admit it or not ) So, I felt that it was time for her to move on, so, I let her (this coupled with my leaving her char sheet at home one night when we played really clenched the deal).

I'm getting kinda tired, so I guess that I won't respond to everything point by point.
But anyway.
No, they have not tried talking to the problem PC (me) and likewise, I didn't realize that it was a problem. I did realize at the time that there was an undue (IMO) amount of tension in the air, but, there always tends to be when the hypermasculine air gets threatened with something unsure. So, I wrote it off as my own paranoia (**takes a note from SRers around the world and starts believing his own paranoia**).

As for the reason for the casting of the spell.
It was an entirely IC reason.
All of the casters were masked.
The character was intimidated and scared.
She felt like the newb in a group of vets.
She needed a security blanket to feel better.
She did what she does in times of insecurity, and tries to get someone else to be a stand in wall. (As a raven shaman, and as the type of character whom she was, she was very non-combative, and prefered protection, stalling, subdual kinds of solutions to problems)
Brian (the target)'s character description best fit the person whom she'd feel most comfortable around.
So!
her goal was to instill in him the feeling of "this gyrl is alright, I should watch her back"
Now, I will grant full well that I as a player knew what would happen. Chibu and the other caster would get angry and either defeat the spell, or kill me.
Yes, I realize this.
But I thought that it was appropriate in character.
Should I have not made the character in the first place? Apparently.... but I thought it'd be interesting.
Also!
I honestly don't know what kind of character to make.
Everyone's characters have a million karma, and have a (relatively) good group dynamic.... (well, honestly you have 2 good group dynamics, reflected in the two different team karma pools, but that shall be left aside) (((and to those of you wondering, yes there is dynamic tension extant in the group, as on the most recent run the one group nearly left the other group inside of a very dangerous compound with no escape route))) Also, their power level and strength of bond aside, it is a very difficult group to find a niche in.
We have combat COVERED. We have Magic even more covered yet. As for transportation... well yes, you have no rigger, but honestly the GM has provided transit to anywhere outside of SeaTac that would've taken any difficulty or prowess anyway. You have a face (in the worst way) that I feel no desire to compete with as firstly, two faces do not a healthy group make, and secondly, that player is one who needs nourished and supported, as dynamic tension might be taken too personally. .....
So, no. I really have no clue what to play.
(I'll comment that at least I AM making runners, if not ones that you see use for.)

No, I"m not "that guy" and I'm not going to design a character out of any idea of vengance who's pissed at the world and wants to kill the running team he gets hired with for no real IC reason. It's not my style. Sorry.

As to the reactions of the other members of the group. The physad, Puma shaman, and the target of the spell where all quite upset by my character's actions (the puma shaman the most, threatening her life in response, and the target the least, simply being unsure of whether he could trust her alone in a room). The face and walking astral beacon both seemed uncaring at best about the situation.
So yes, at least one other player expressed similar concerns Talia.

Also Talia, yeah, I know the game. I know the rules, and I know the world. I've Played SR for many years, and DMed it quite a bit. I've also played and DMed a TON of other games, but, you are onto something none the less. It HAS been a long time since I've played SR consistantly instead of DMing it, and that could well be part of the problem involved here. It has been a while since I have not been in "the power seat" and perhaps subconciously it is affecting my playing (I'll try to watch out for that.... as much as one can)... but I don't think that that is the answer to the 'problem'.

Thanx for the backing tisoz. Yes. I am trying to help. It seems at times that our GM (Mortax) is unhappy with the power level and mindset of our campaign. I OOC am trying distinctly to help. However, when it comes to IC issues, there is little that I can do besides not add to the problems. These 'problems' have been at least partially on my mind while making characters, I've been trying to avoid illegal gear and massive minmaxing or metagaming. Also, I've tried to play characters who help illustrate the fact that not all characters need be monsters at their particular field. However, in a group of characters so established, and so experienced, this does (in fact) turn out to be (as chibu claimed) very close to (or at least in appearance) worthless.

........................
So, yeah.
Anyway, to those of you that I know IRL, please, talk to me about this, .... or don't if you really don't want to. If you just want me to frag off and stop playing, then that works too, and I can respect that wish.

To those of you that I don't know IRL, please share your comments/thoughts, and add any questions you feel like asking. I"ll try to check up on here and respond if I get a chance (which I should )

OH, and one more thing!!!
.... yeah, cause we don't have a character in our group who totes heavy weoponry around in public places (say, the back of her car), or insults empowered beings that they shouldn't ...

I like the way you create characters.

First influence when you have forgotten the name and only have a vague idea of what it did can easily become “implant thought spell”, when I read that I immediately assumed the spell was influence or something very similar.

Why did you use it on a PC. In character what reaction did you expect, OC what reaction did you expect.

I create my characters in a similar way to how you do.

I have an ex cop that got done for planting evidence (he actually did plant evidence but they where guilty of the crime). He is a bit like a samy but the mentality doesn’t mach and he has more investigative skills.

There is an ex aztechnolagy security rigger that extracted himself because they where going to kill his daughter.

And a rich kid shaman with a taste for adventure and a warped sense of rite and wrong. (pacifist that deals drugs).

What they all have in common is that they don’t back stab there friends without a very compelling reason. Every SR PC should have that ether as a moral code or a sense of self preservation (if you survive stabbing them in the back what will it do to your reputation).

Using mind altering spells on a ally counts as backstabbing in most circumstances.
Why did you do it?

Edward

Sorry, I was typing while you posted your second post.

In response to your reasoning. First why you my not have done that in character.

If you where aware of the other magicals in the party you would know in character you would probably get caught. Also you would likely know that the reaction would be somewhere between annoyance and deadly action.

On an OC level I try to avoid taking action that will get me in trouble. If faced with 2 IC acceptable choices I choose the one that will make the group stronger. Yes it is metagaming a bit but I find it makes the game smoother and more fun for all participants.

The blood of PCs that is on my hands is usually cases where the player chose a character they knew would not work well in the group or did something stupid that while in character there where other in character options.

What I would have done is to stand near the person you wanted to protect you, probably slightly to the side and behind. You have his protection to an extent purely by virtue of location and you don’t run the risk of turning the one you want to protect you into an enemy.

Edward

fair.
Perhaps not entirely how I see the char. but still fair.

And yeah man, I love your char. ideas. they make me happy (at least I"m not the only one out there doing dreck like this)

As for why, well, it was explained in the second post, which I guess you read.
But pretty much, because it felt like the right IC (if not prudent) action to take.

Fair play after peeling my eyes form the monitor i think you have explained yourself!

torz x

Prudence is not always the response of a PC in game. However, I think in the future it would be better if everyone, myself included here, tried to make things both more realistic and tried to keep things going on a team note. After all, if the group doesn't get along, the fixer/ johnson isn't going to call. And to the statement about how the other char. play IC, several don't understand the world of shadowrun real well out of char. unfortunatly, this means when the "real world" of shadowrun catches up to them, they are probably going to hate me. Which, in all honesty is the main reason it hasn't happend yet. Also, the PC with heavy weapons in the trunk didn't ever say they were doing that until the last run when they saw the Johnson, then had to board a plane. (shakes head) This will likely come back to haunt him in the next run.

As to the undue player tension, in all honesty I'm not surprised. Nor, in all honesty was it entirely in appropriet. Every member of the crew had worked together before. Raven walks in, and tries infuence (no, I was not saying it was a self written spell, I just didn't have my notes and therefor the name in front of me.) on one of the PCs. Mind control spells are as illegle as combat spells, if not more. Puma's are a bit over protective. So I think the reaction, if anything, was not as sever as it could have been. Also, I never asked but, how did your PC know who was magic? They were all masked, and a higher grades of initiate. Yes, the masking can be pierced, but that requires a roll, and you never said you were trying.

Anyway, as far as it goes, I'm not going to do anything unless the PC do something so blatent I have no choice. If you do want to play Raven again, I have no problem with it. If she keeps trying influence though, the group will prolly refuse to work with her. Which put's me in a bit of a spot. What to do with a PC that everyone refuses to work with. It's happend in game before, those who know me irl know to what I am refereing, and it's always a pain.

And just as a note, the main reason I keep providing NPC transport is because, thus far, it has been scripted. Or, ya know, we don't have a rigger so I don't have much choice. Same with deckers. Also, Lon'Elara, the drone rigger you played before was very useful. The wyverns would have been a lot harder without him/her. (don't remember gender.) And yes, I liked the first char you played too. There have been a few times she would have been quite useful. And our face is less of a face and more of a gunner, so a true face would be useful.

um, so because other people are doing dumb things it makes it okay for everyone? casting a spell on a team mate is a bad plan.

hey, mortax, sounds like you've got issues with PCs. don't be afraid to ream them if they do stupid shit. if they're out of control, it's your fault and you gotta bring em in line. bring forth the lonestar security services!

Lon'Elara, what were the abilities/goals of your otheother why'd they quit?
If the team doesn't have a rigger or decker, why not one of those? not like those archetypes?

that explains your sig

Appreciate, greatly, seeing the other pov. It's rare, here, that we get a chance to see each perspective involved. Much more usually, it's "here's the problem that I'm having with my group/my player/my GM, how would you fix it?" (Or, far more commonly, "How can I tell them they're wrong?")

With the addition of your pov, Lon'Elara (and welcome to Dumpshock btw! hope any further experiences here will be better ones), I'm seeing one other thing now: different people in the group have a radically different primary focus of the game, to the point where quirks of a character brought in by one player (any player? or just one?) are immediately taken personally by other players ... through their characters. At the very least, I'm seeing a "what is your character good for?" being seen very differently by different players, based on what each person thinks is the most important thing about their game ... in other words, what's more important than creating the character you want to make.

But every group does this! Every group decides that there's some things more important to be or not be in a character, than the player's privilege to create whatever character he or she wants. Every established group quickly decides (usually without really realising it) what works and doesn't work within that group. There's different ways of winnowing out the characters that "don't belong", for one reason or another. Frequently, it's something the GM catches in the mutual GM-player character creation vetting. The most extreme is to let a character unvetted for group compatibility into the group, and having the group kill them.

In your group, for example, at least a couple of people in the group seem to be strongly prioritising "valuable" skills. At least one or two others seem to be equally prioritising characterisation. Some have strongly indicated a taboo that is not to be crossed in-group (mind control). And in your situation, the different priorities have created a conflict that immediately threatens the new PC's life expectancy.

Anyway, all that is background, not your immediate problem. And yet ...

You see, what I'm thinking -- and bear in mind I'm stabbing in the dark, here, and take with the appropriate tablespoon of salt -- that it's not just the Influence spell, here, that's the problem. Rather, it's that for whatever reason, the characters being created here aren't compatible with what the influential members of the group deem important. And if this holds any accuracy at all, the only way out of this is to figure out what the major members of a group are really looking for in new characters and playing styles -- and more importantly, what they won't stand for -- and build and play the next character accordingly.

Because the alternative, sometimes, is to realise that the two styles of playing just don't fit ...?

... ya know, that's probably the most helpfull thing said thus far. For all involved. Thank you.

**First thing: I'm not angry about this, and not taking it (overly) personally**
[[Just thought that I'd throw that out there after reading some of the responses]]

Now! On to the point by point analysis

However, I think in the future it would be better if everyone, myself included here, tried to make things both more realistic and tried to keep things going on a team note.
~I"m sorry. I was going for realism. That's why I haven't been making characters with assault weoponry and arm mounted shoulder lasers who enjoy long walks on the beach. That's also why I chose to take an imprudent action instead of on that would benefit group cohesion.

Did I know that they were casters.
NOPE!
I did not.
I made comment that they were masked, kinda to point out that my character wouldn't even know that they'd take it personal and break the spell, if not her face. (although, one could argue that anyone with astral perception knows that chibu's charrie has somethin up with him.... but that's besides the point )
to requote myself "Brian (the target)'s character description best fit the person whom she'd feel most comfortable around." really it wasn't an issue of who's a caster, it was an issue of character description. Angry stoner with spirit en toe ( I don't know if the cat had masking too, so, I'm sorry if that's a metaissue), south american guy with messed up aura and a general feeling of "I'm a badass" the million foot tall, 2 million pound troll who WITH masking still kinda looks like he's got magic going on.... BGcount n all. the Preppy slitch face, and the reserved but strong dark-souled guy. I'm sorry that you didn't hear me, but I said I"m percieving and casting at brian. I voluntarily lowered the spell power so that it was less detectable in the real world (so I didn't jump up on a chair and scream and holler, or whatever shamans do these days ). and... yeah.

I will grant that it was not entirely apparent that our face had heavy weoponry in her trunk at all times until the last run. I mainly ment that comment as a joke, but still. On the note of your (mortax) comment about some of the ppl don't really get SR so let it slide: well, firstly, we talk about it all the time. They should pic up on it.... secondly, we play alot.... they should pick up on it. if they're not, it prolly means that they don't care, they don't pay attention, or they're not getting sent the propper information in order to actually get it. Now, I don't know which, or what combination of these it may be, but, perhaps some OOC DM to Player convo could be helpful here? Just a thought.
If the character is viewed as so unhealthy to the group that they will not be called again, then that is fair. But perhaps the appropriate action would be for the GM to tell the offending player this at the end of a night's run so that they may make another, perhaps more fitting character.
Perhaps the J is looking for someone with particular tallents, perhaps the fixer sees a weakness in the group that he thinks needs filled. If we're "in the interest of realism" then perhaps realistically the J/Fixer should call someone with those skills needed. (btw: I really have no clue what skills are needed. .... I honestly think that 2/3 of the runs that we've been on could have been completed with chibu alone. Likewise, the player of ye astral beacon called me last night and was complaining about "why do Js hire me and -the face/gunner- it seems like we're nigh useless?"... )Just saying that maybe some guidance of what would be realistically hired could work.

To the person who asked "why don't you play a decker" well, this is the honest reason. My first character (whom I love) was working on becoming a decker, and quite frankly, she wasn't bad at it. But, every time that we had a run that "required" a decker (and yes, I fully realize that a decker CAN be very useful in ANY run, but still) the J hired an NPC decker to go along with us. Of course the NPC was far better at decking than I was, having a much nicer deck, and having all of his skills concentrated in the area of decking, not spread around on multiple things like I did. So, having the experience of being a quasi decker and not ever getting to deck, I gotta admit that I"m skeptical about wanting to play one in this campaign, with this Fixer.

I was just pointing out that it was influence instead of a self written spell so that the readers of the forum would know what was being discussed. I wasn't trying to imply that you(Mortax) were dumb, or misunderstood the situation, I was simply trying to avert any "what's that spell do" kinda comments.

I DID forget about the rigger in my posts 12 hours ago. Sorry. Short rundown: drone rigger, lots of blimps, lots of recon, lots of infogathering/spystuff. Up until that point in the campaign, the vast majority had been extraction/stealth based. I figured that this would be an appropriate character that a J would call. The run we got hired for ended up being pure combat, and in the end, an adult dragon came after us. In an attempt to dissuade him from coming back at us, I rammed my heaviest (and unfortunately most expensive) drone into his carcass at top speed. did nice damage! really nice damage. I was happy. The dragon retreated. The next run I went back to playing my original character, as well, quite frankly, I liked her alot better. I tried something new while my character was off doing things for her own character goals (the times just didn't line up for her) and, well, I didn't like him much. Really good character mechanically. I never got into his personality much.

And our face is less of a face and more of a gunner, so a true face would be useful.
Yeah..... hmm...... see... our face is one of the characters that mortax described in the 'not really getting it' category. He's doing a fine job (as it were) as a face, and he'll never learn if I step in and take over the job from him. I'd like to see him grow as a Player, so I don't wanna shove him into the 'utility gunner' slot while I take the face roll.
ALSO: it's REALLY hard to come in as a face in an already established group. ESPECIALLY an already established group that has a strong set working order of things. I could try it. sure. but this screws our face over, and it might turn out as bad or worse than raven.

Kali: I think that I mentioned the abilities of my other chars above, but I'll give a quick rundown of them again.
A): Face/decker/combatable/stealthy chica. She was a BTL producer who ran so that she could get real footage of things worth selling. she had a facility to edit it up and take out the 'vital' details that Js would get pissed off for you leaking, but basically she sold VERY realistic action flicks. she had a penchant for blowing up buildings after striding out of them and turning to watch the explosion (yes, another IMPRUDENT action.... but the star never seemed to care. ... ) She also sold alot of live concerts (we've got a friend, he owns a bar.... he's a greater dragon....) Anyway, I was using the rules in shadowbeat for popularity and such based on each run (and the producing and selling of it) being one "performance" and well, quite frankly, I was good at what I did. I went up to star pretty fast, and then I held off there for a while, and on the run after I went Novastar, I A)was spending a lot of my hours doing things other than running and it would've been a pain for the other characters (I'm sorry, I force realism and don't like to just be "oh, my people will wait while I go on this run") and B) the amount of money that I was raking in outside of the run was making the DM uncomfortable (IMO), so I moved on. As for other skills, she had mad stealth, tons of persuasion, ubercharisma, acting, make-up/disguise, and a monowhip (also, she was far more effective in combat situations where initiative didn't get rolled, [toxin exhaler, oral spur])
B) rigger: the character was flat, but useful, he had dreams of diong somthing that I don't care about.... like owning more drones or something.... I forget, I didn't care, I moved back to char #1
C)Astral cleansing chica. Yes chibu her OOC goals were to learn thread magic, this was not an IC goal. Her IC goals were to figure out what the heck was up with the fovae, to learn more about how background count is generated/formed, and how it can be 'cleaned up', and eventually write a form of magic that can be cast without distorting the astral as much. (I think all fair and believable goals given that cleansing metamagic and the astral static spell both exist). Yes, my only spell was "cleanse astral" which I modeled off of Astral Static. It needed to be maintained for 10 minutes, and the TN was 6. every 2 successes decreased the BGC of the area by 1, and the drain was somewhere in the area of +4D. ... I don't remember the exact drain, but it was as per static, upped to D if it wasn't already and then added "permanancy" as per the grimoire.
Her skills were all scientific/observation based, as she was basically a scientist turned runner. Oh yeah.... and she had a really big issue with people using magic willy nilly and with the extream overuse of permanant-magic effects (spell locks/quickenings/foci).
D) Raven. As has been the topic of much discussion. Raven was/is an androgynous Raven shaman goth gurl (prolly only 17 years old, but she looks much smaller than she should for her age). Her skills are mostly magical, and they involve stealth, and delaying/preventing combat. Things like barrier spells, darkness, the much disputed influence spell, and Raven Form. She is socially maladjusted, shy, and easily intimidated, but she refuses to let that come through on the outside, instead she just puts on a cold and unfeeling mask while she acts like nothing's wrong. Her goals include Becoming a respected musician (although not a famous one.... I don't feel like giving up another character that I like to show biz), getting a few pets (especially hell hounds... she's always wanted one), and perhaps even finding a group of people with whom she can feel comfortable. Also, she has some personal issues with a particular megacorp, but quite frankly, I (I know I"m a bad player, but whatever) haven't figured out which corp yet. (classic cyberpunk backstory: happy family meets unhappy corporate demise, kid grows cold wierd, and pissy, becomes a punk.)
So yeah, there's the short rundown of each of them.

I'm aware the nightshade has backstory, and I"m sorry if I implied that he didn't. I know his BS because my first charrie picked up on quite a bit of it around meeting tables. I'm not sure about anyone else's charries, btu honestly I haven't seen them come out at all, but I also haven't gamed every time with y'all. I was simply saying that I like intricate backstory, not necisarily saying that I was the only person who had one.

Talia, I"ve only been on these boards for, oh 12 or 13 hours now, but I'm starting to respect you greatly already.
I have little to add to your post except that in many ways you are completely right. Any IRL ppl can attest to the fact that It took me forever to decide on a char to play simply because I didn't know what would fit into the group dynamic. I couldn't figure out what the Game Session's goals and ideologies were, and I didn't know what to do to fit with them.... so, I went with something that I thought would be nonobtrusive, yet useful.... however, as the character developed in my head and as gaming began, nonobtrusive turned into fear(in the character, not in me) which became casting a spell, which became combat.

So, yeah. that's kinda what I've got to say...
Anybody got any thoughts? expansions? questions? suggestions fo what to play next??
Anyway
thanx all
Byes!

One other thing!!!

(Said to anouther PC as he ran naked away from a fight.) "Nothing personal, just business." BANG! -Chun

Yeah, we've had player conflict before.
(Chun = mortax, the other PC = guy who used to play with us who moved away. DM at the time = me. Reason for the BANG, another character playing got pissed off at the soon to be dead one and asked Chun to kill him. Reason for the nudity.... yeah, that's a bit of a longer story)

I'm wondering how Mr. Quickened is managing to mask all those quickened spells. Is he trying to say they are not mentioned in the masking rules so they don't need masked or what? How is anyone astrally perceiving not seeing those spells? Either he got them at Force 1 (which I'm kind of betting he did so it cost less karma to quicken and just kept recasting the spell until he hit that 2*Attribute TN and quickened it) or 6 Attribute spells plus the other stuff is going to force him to make some deliberate masking tests at some near impossible TNs.

Since Anchoring is still worthwhile in 2nd ed., I would anchor about a Force 6 Mana Barrier spell triggered by a detect magic spell with a short range. He won't have much chance to see it as the detection spell can be masked and it can be low force. Pop those quickenings and probably ruin a bunch of spell locks. Be really evil and use a bunch of quickened mana barriers to herd him toward the apparently clear trapped path.


See Talia, I told you everyone loves you.

mmmmmm this topic name should be changed to ........ personal slaging match...... or even its not my fault!

come on stop justifying yourself and GET on with life!

Nothing personal but i thoght i moaned!

torz x

Tisoz:
No, he can't mask all of it. Again, the player doesn't see the problem with it. Thanks for the sudjestion though, I'd been thinking about something along those lines.

As far as the rest, I've said I'll I'm going to. Yes, there have been PC conflicts and will likely continue. I could list off a lot of others that have happend. That point it irrelevent. If people do things that are in character and tell me why, I'm not going to stop them. Whatever those actions may be.

I think it is a natural thing when people get together and they all want to get there ideas out, people will say and do things they might not normally ..... especially when under the pressure of a game or situation.

I think this sort of topic will always cause conflict as everyone has a point they want to make, and others do not like or agree with what they are saying!

I think your player made a fair explanation of themselves (but who am i to say it's just my opinion?) and has tried to point out what they were trying to do, I'm sure if we all think back about past runs we have been part of we could all come up with an example of falling out with each other! I know for a fact that I can, Its all part of playing a higly stressed game!


Note: I have my adult head on today.......... I think i will need to go and lie down now as i have just over exerted my brain!

tehehehehe

Torz x

Heh. Starting a thread is like starting "the Wave"... you can easily start it, but you can't easily stop it.

sorry, just get annoyed hwen people who could talk irl, dont
also when people get over agressive, and dont talk rationaly guess i should yell at me too

i have been lurking
is what i do best