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GlassJaw
The Ares Alpha (CC pg. 22) has 2 points of recoil comp due to a "special chamber design." It also says that it can accomodate barrel-mounted accessories.

Does this mean that additional recoil compensation mods can be added?
Tziluthi
Yes it does. Which means that you can get a total of 8 points worth of recoil mods on the thing.
FrostyNSO
yes.
GlassJaw
That's what I love about this boards - virtually instantaneous answers. It's almost as if everyone was jacked in...scary. cyber.gif
FrostyNSO
QUOTE (GlassJaw)
It's almost as if everyone was jacked in...scary. cyber.gif

You're not?
JaronK
Fraggin' Tortises.

JaronK
hahnsoo
Still just using trodes, sorry. smile.gif
Arethusa
Fast? Baby, those responses traveled 6 minutes back in time to bite you in the ass. You don't know fast.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Arethusa @ Mar 3 2005, 08:36 PM)
Fast?  Baby, those responses traveled 6 minutes back in time to bite you in the ass.  You don't know fast.

Yeah, we've mastered Time Travel, at least in increments of less than 10 minutes in an online setting.
Arethusa
It's a start.
Arethusa
See that, baby? 5 minutes before I posted, I responded to you responding to me 2 minutes later.
GlassJaw
QUOTE
those responses traveled 6 minutes back in time


Whoa, I just noticed those time stamps. What's up with that?? eek.gif
hahnsoo
QUOTE (GlassJaw)
QUOTE
those responses traveled 6 minutes back in time


Whoa, I just noticed those time stamps. What's up with that?? eek.gif

It's amazing what you can do with a Flux Capacitor and 1.21 Gigawatts of electricity...
Raygun
QUOTE (GlassJaw)
The Ares Alpha (CC pg. 22) has 2 points of recoil comp due to a "special chamber design."

I've always wondered what exactly was meant by that.
Cynic project
QUOTE (Raygun)
QUOTE (GlassJaw @ Mar 4 2005, 01:16 AM)
The Ares Alpha (CC pg. 22) has 2 points of recoil comp due to a "special chamber design."

I've always wondered what exactly was meant by that.

Well, I think it is the fact that Ares is the best.So you suckers can all die?
Raygun
Not quite the level of exactness I was looking for.
hahnsoo
I always thought that it was the 2 points of recoil reduction that you can add to a gun's design under the Cannon Companion's firearms design rules. The Ares Alpha is simply a gun that is the example of that design option.
Cynic project
As i recall the Ares Alpha was out before the gun making rules. I think it is like from a long time ago.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Cynic project)
As i recall the Ares Alpha was out before the gun making rules. I think it is like from a long time ago.

Yup, you're right. "Fields of Fire", in fact. However, the Cannon Companion gun design rules do incorporate that integral RC reduction without taking a barrel mount. Are there any other guns that are similar in this regard?
Raygun
Yeah. Fields of Fire. 1994.
Sandoval Smith
It means that the chamber is designed in a way to minimize the kick back of the gas expansion, to the point where you get 2 points of recoil comp.
Capt. Dave
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith)
It means that the chamber is designed in a way to minimize the kick back of the gas expansion, to the point where you get 2 points of recoil comp.

Yeah...or it's magic!
Maybe a quickened Force 2 Reduce Recoil Spell...
HMHVV Hunter
QUOTE (Tziluthi)
Yes it does. Which means that you can get a total of 8 points worth of recoil mods on the thing.

8? I count 6 at best (2 integral + Gas Vent IV). Is there something I'm missing?
Arethusa
Yeah, I think he understands that. That is unfortunately about as good an explanation as "dikoting is sharp so it increases damage."
Arethusa
QUOTE (HMHVV Hunter)
QUOTE (Tziluthi @ Mar 3 2005, 09:10 PM)
Yes it does. Which means that you can get a total of 8 points worth of recoil mods on the thing.

8? I count 6 at best (2 integral + Gas Vent IV). Is there something I'm missing?

Foregrip/underbarrel weight, shockpads.
Kanada Ten
Built-In (2)
Personalized Handgrip (1)
Gas Vent IV (4)
Shock Pads (1)
Foregrip (1)

Gryoscopic Cyberarm (4)
Strength 10 (2)

Reaper madness.
Sandoval Smith
QUOTE (Arethusa)
Yeah, I think he understands that. That is unfortunately about as good an explanation as "dikoting is sharp so it increases damage."

Well at this point, CC has rules that allow you to include reduction in the base design, so it comes from really whatever 'fluff' you want to attribute it to.

As for Dikote, I say it maintains a particularly sharp, frictionless edge, for your cutting convience.
Arethusa
And Raygun's point what whatever fluff you throw at it won't make it any less silly.

Same with dikote.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Built-In (2)
Personalized Handgrip (1)
Gas Vent IV (4)
Shock Pads (1)
Foregrip (1)

Gryoscopic Cyberarm (4)
Strength 10 (2)

Reaper madness.

Do you ever need more than 10 though? Can a gun fire more than 10 rounds in a pass, or is RC accrued over the entire Combat Turn?
Arethusa
No, you never need more than 10 if you play canon. Practically, it's easy to get 9 and that's all you really need.
Kanada Ten
Isn't the Ares Alpha an HV gun, meaning it can fire 15 per pass?
GlassJaw
QUOTE
Foregrip (1)


Well since the Alpha has a grande launcher, it doesn't have an underbarrel mount (even though the pic right next to it looks like it has a foregrip).
GlassJaw
QUOTE
Isn't the Ares Alpha an HV gun, meaning it can fire 15 per pass?


No, that's the Ares HVAR. The Alpha is a normal assault rifle.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Isn't the Ares Alpha an HV gun, meaning it can fire 15 per pass?

Nope, it's a standard assault rifle, albeit the most uber standard one in Cannon Companion.
Kanada Ten
Ah. Oh well. Don't need the silly foregrip anyway.
Endgame50
I'm pretty sure it isn't. Maybe you're thinking of the Ares HVAR? (Which fires a whopping 18 rounds per phase.)

[Edit: Too slow, yet at the same time]
HMHVV Hunter
Edit: someone beat me to it
Arethusa
If you don't have crazy strength or a ridiculously stupid extra arm, there's no reason not to get the foregrip to get up to 9 points. The grenade launcher's integral, so it really doesn't matter and there's nothing saying you can't mount it.
GlassJaw
QUOTE
The grenade launcher's integral, so it really doesn't matter and there's nothing saying you can't mount it.


"The grenade launcher prevents the mounting of underbarrel accessories."
CanvasBack
QUOTE (Arethusa)
And Raygun's point what whatever fluff you throw at it won't make it any less silly.

Same with dikote.

Well, we are talking about a campaign system with not one but TWO Elven Nations, THOR shots, magic, and a secret cabal of Dragons... right? rotfl.gif
Modesitt
QUOTE (Arethusa)
The grenade launcher's integral, so it really doesn't matter and there's nothing saying you can't mount it.

QUOTE (280 SR3 @ right column, first paragraph)

Only one accessory can be attached to a particular mount.  Integral accessories take up mount locations
Cynic project
QUOTE (CanvasBack)
QUOTE (Arethusa @ Mar 3 2005, 10:22 PM)
And Raygun's point what whatever fluff you throw at it won't make it any less silly.

Same with dikote.

Well, we are talking about a campaign system with not one but TWO Elven Nations, THOR shots, magic, and a secret cabal of Dragons... right? rotfl.gif

There are at least four elven nations..It so happens that two of them are really bigger than the rest and start with Tir...
Arethusa
QUOTE (CanvasBack)
QUOTE (Arethusa @ Mar 3 2005, 10:22 PM)
And Raygun's point what whatever fluff you throw at it won't make it any less silly.

Same with dikote.

Well, we are talking about a campaign system with not one but TWO Elven Nations, THOR shots, magic, and a secret cabal of Dragons... right? rotfl.gif

Bullshit. I know you think you're clever because mentioning fantasy gives you carte blanche to make up anything without any repercussions, but that is still the most asinine argument for sloppy design still doggedly hanging around Dumpshock, and no amount of repetition will save it.

It's silly. It doesn't make sense. It should, but it doesn't, and elves and dragons don't make a damn bit of difference.
Fortune
Even without the foregrip/underbarrel weight, a Strength of 5 (or is it 6? I always forget this part) plus the other mods gives you 9 RC.
Arethusa
It's 6. Personally, I find that excessive and would start it at 5, but the values were pretty clearly put together not to favor standard humans.
Fortune
Ah, thanks.

So Strength 6, Gas Vent IV, Personalized Grip, Internal RC, and Shock Pads gives you 9 RC.
Edward
Fields of fire made the Aries Alfa look like a bulpup weapon.

Bulpup configuration grants 2 points of integral recoil compensation and +2 conceal ability. An integral grenade launcher reduces conceal ability by 2. the Aries Alfa has the base conceal ability for assault rifles. Adds up nicely where I am siting.

The fields of fire entry was pointed out to me when I complained to my GM that there where no standard weapons with the bullpup configuration.

As to non bulpup explanations (eg the Aries HVAR has 3 points of integral and the design modification) an uncommonly well balanced weapon that has the force directed more in line with the bracing of the weapon works for me (taking more man hours to design and thus costing more money to buy). I was under the impression that not all weapons in the same class with the same ammunition had the exact same recoil characteristics.

Edward
Arethusa
And yet they all fire the same stuff.

Please, can we not go down this route? It's pretty much universally acknowledged that the firearm design rules are insane crap, and there's no sense in trying to hack together silly justifications for them.
Critias
Don't forget Custom Grips and/or just a decent Strength score. You can get way higher.
Raygun
QUOTE (Edward)
Fields of fire made the Aries Alfa look like a bulpup weapon.

Bulpup configuration grants 2 points of integral recoil compensation and +2 conceal ability. An integral grenade launcher reduces conceal ability by 2. the Aries Alfa has the base conceal ability for assault rifles. Adds up nicely where I am siting.

Going to a bullpup configuration automatically gives recoil compensation? Wow. That's pretty rediculous. Regardless, it doesn't have much to do with "special chamber design" which is what I'm interested in. What, specifically related to the chamber, would absorb or displace recoil energy? I can think of a couple of rifles that would include something we could call internal recoil compensation (G11, AN94), but neither relate directly to the rifle's chamber.

QUOTE
The fields of fire entry was pointed out to me when I complained to my GM that there where no standard weapons with the bullpup configuration.

The Steyr AUG-CSL (originally from the Street Samurai Catalog) is a bullpup, as is the Ares Crusader (IIRC), and maybe a couple of others (Ruger 100?). I guess that may not be what you mean by "standard", though.
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