UpSyndrome
Mar 9 2005, 12:15 AM
I was under the impression that the body bonus from dermal sheathing supersedes that that trolls get naturally, but now that I actually look, I can't find where it says so. If anyone can confirm or deny this (preferably with a reference), I'd appreciate it.
-Joe
toturi
Mar 9 2005, 12:38 AM
There is nothing(yet) that says that the bonus from dermal sheathing suspersedes the troll racial bonus.
UpSyndrome
Mar 9 2005, 01:02 AM
Alright, thanks. The closest thing I could find one way or the other is that the dermal armor SURGE effect from year of the comet says specifically that it stacks with dermal plating and sheathing, so this makes sense I guess.
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-Joe
tisoz
Mar 9 2005, 05:01 AM
What are you saying? That a troll could be at Body 16(17), and if they raise their body to 17 they lose the dermal armor?
I play it that they can raise the Body attribute to 17. The dermal armor bonus makes it 17(18). The dermal armor bonus does not affect the karma they pay to raise the attribute, it is a racial trait like Thermographic vision or +1 Reach.
Saying the Dermal Armor bonus needs added when figuring the Attribute Maximum is like adding the Dwarf racial trait of +2 Body for resisting disease or toxin to Body when determining their Attribute Maximum.
Tarantula
Mar 9 2005, 05:07 AM
I'm fairly certain he wanted to know if they stacked, nothing at all was mentioned about racial attributes.
Necro Tech
Mar 9 2005, 06:33 AM
The only way trolls lose their natural dermal armor is if they go full cyber-replacement or have it removed through gene tech.
Also, if you target cyberlimbs they wouldn't get the bonus for that limb.
The Jopp
Mar 9 2005, 09:00 AM
No bonus to attribute, just one extra die to resist. They DO gain immunity to Fleshette weapons though (read through the rules for flechettes, Dermal armour ignore raised damage code)
Botch
Mar 9 2005, 11:43 AM
Troll's dermal armour is bone growths on the surface, right?
Should/could/would trolls recieve additional BOD modifiers when using bone lacing?
'Cos if they plate ALL their bones when undergoing 'lacing it going to be very similar to dermal plating.
hahnsoo
Mar 9 2005, 01:19 PM
| QUOTE (Botch) |
Troll's dermal armour is bone growths on the surface, right?
Should/could/would trolls recieve additional BOD modifiers when using bone lacing?
'Cos if they plate ALL their bones when undergoing 'lacing it going to be very similar to dermal plating. |
It's calcified deposits, not quite "bone growths". The skeletal structure of a troll is still analogous to that of most humans (just bigger), and that's the part that is reinforced with bone lacing.
Botch
Mar 9 2005, 03:44 PM
Just idle thoughts, really
I don't have the BBB with me, but a quick google brought back the work of...
Corrected Weights & Measures (and Why They're Useful) for Characters in FASA's Shadowrun Game by Patrick Goodman
... he refers to "bony deposits" and "bone desposits" and uses the weight of bone within his calculations.
I might be caught out by SR3 specifics, but I could have sworn that at least at some point troll dermal armour was described as being bone or repeatively refered to as bony.
I suppose it comes down to how the bone lacing is actually installed in a (meta)-human. I can't remember seeing, and if I have I've forgotten, a canon description of how the operation is handled. Depending on how it is down there is a valid arguement that the calcified deposits (same surface compounds as bone) could also be considered plated.
Something for pondering.
hahnsoo
Mar 9 2005, 08:56 PM
| QUOTE (Botch) |
I might be caught out by SR3 specifics, but I could have sworn that at least at some point troll dermal armour was described as being bone or repeatively refered to as bony.
I suppose it comes down to how the bone lacing is actually installed in a (meta)-human. I can't remember seeing, and if I have I've forgotten, a canon description of how the operation is handled. Depending on how it is down there is a valid arguement that the calcified deposits (same surface compounds as bone) could also be considered plated. |
Bony, probably, but I doubt it's actual bone, considering that they are asymmetrical in distribution. Actual bone is continually modeled and remodeled based on the growth and aging of the creature. Bone lacing is done by nanites, which selectively target the bone matrix (probably some of the I-can't-remember-the-name canals between osteoblasts) and reinforce the structure by working woven metal mesh through the bones. A crude form of this is already done today in some reconstructive surgeries. Calcified deposits would be similar to bone, as to allow laypeople to consider them "bony" or "bone", but they wouldn't be actual bone. As it is described in SR, the troll's deposits are bumps and "warts" all over their skin. Adding bone lacing wouldn't significantly increase their protective value, as the bonus from bone lacing comes from an overall structural integrity granted by the metal/ceramic/kevlar/plastic mesh.
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