So I was wondering about critters that are spirits. There are a few of them in Critters, like the corpselight (which got me started thinking about this). Anything with its Essence listed as A is primarily astral and, as defined in the rules, a spirit. So does this mean that a magician can banish it? Could you banish a corpselight or a nomad? Just wondering how people have handled it in their games and/or what they think cannon says about it.

Personally, I'd say yes. If it comes from another plane and has a Force rating, then you can banish it.

Man, doesn't that thing have an essence of like 5-30 or something? You'd be a brave SOB to try to banish that thing.

Not sure if I'd allow this or not. I kind of like having a few things that are outside of the "known and accepted", even in the Sixth World.

I think it can be banished. Imps can, it's just not easy. Then again, neither is a corpselight. I'll look in my stuff, see what I can dig up.

Hmm... corpselights and wriaths both have manafestation, so they are primaraly astral. You very well might be able to banish them. Can you banish minor Horrors? (Given coments Ive seen be a certain -H-, I'm thinking that is what they are.

Isn´t banishing best used when it can be done with the snap of your fingers? If I played a magican, I´d choose astral combat over banishing any time force of the spirit goes beyond half my conjuring skill.

Thanks for the replies so far. While banishing the corpselight might not be the brightest thing a magician ever did (with its Essence of 4D6), banishing could take a lot of the punch out of things like the nomad. It's a hard call. I'm inclined to agree with you guys, Mortax and hahnsoo, that all spirits can be banished. That's basically what the rules say, anyway, as far as I can figure. Maybe treat them like spontaneously manifesting spirits and use their forcex2 as the TN to banish? Though that would more often than not make the point moot, because who's going to banish something with a force of 12 or 24 or even (Spirits forbid) 48 like a well-fed corspelight? I'll have to think on it more.

Any other opinions appreciated.

@ mintcar: Maybe. But with regeneration (for the corpselight, at least), that could get messy quick. Banishing would circumvent the regeneration - no longer on this plane, not necessary to worry about it.

Edit: It just occured to me that these things aren't treated like spirits for the purposes of other rules: like being Free or not. So that at least shows that some of the spirit rules don't apply to them.

The question was "is it possible". Not "is it a good idea". Personally, I'm with you. If I see either of these, I'm either hitting them astrally or running very fast.

hahnsoo: Well. In that situation I would hardly choose astral combat. It just wouldn´t be an option really.

Well I am pretty sure you can't banish wraiths...can't remember where i read that though...

I've only seen wraiths in Paranormal Animals of Europe. In there, it says that so far they have resisted domination. I would just assume this means they can't be conjured, or bound. It says nothing about banishing, though. In most respects they act as free spirits.

They do have magic resistance.
P. 110-111 PAE

wraiths are statted in MitS, in the spirits section (or maybe the threats section? don't recall.)

Don't have that book with me. Oh well.
Anyone got a page number or quote? I'm starting to use more and more 3rd edition magic rules, and if there are changes, I need to know. Any changes to corpselights from 2nd edition? I'm using one in a run very soon.

Hmmm, freind sent me a scan of those two pages specters are on. Either they made major changes or those aren't wraiths.

Wraiths have very different stats, but it does say you can banish them. They are a lot more evil in 2nd edition. Since I'm so evil, I'll prolly stay with what is in PAE.

Body: 10
Quickness:12
Strength : 6
Charisma: 4
Intellegence: 7/7
Wilpower: 10
Essence: 12(A)
Reaction: 7

Powers: Confusion, Fear, Immunity to pathogens and poisons, Influence, Magical Resistance, Magic Sense, Manafestation
Weaknesses: None known
Notes: Wraiths act as freespirits, and so they use spirit energy. The wraiths spirit energy beguins at 0,
then increases by 1 point for every point (box) of stun damage a victum under its influence does to another
living being or inanimate structure. The wraith can have a max spirit energy equal to its essence.

argh, ya beet me to it.

Because I had the stats in frount of me...

Corpselight
Body: 5
Quickness:10
Strength : 0
Charisma: 0
Intellegence: 2
Wilpower: 5
Essence: 2d6(A)
Reaction: 5
Attack: 6M -1 reach

Powers: Essence drain, Immunity to normal weapons, Manafestation, Movemen, Psychokinesis, Regeneration
Weaknesses: Essence Loss
Notes: When a corpselight is encountered, it has an initial Essence Rating of 2d6.
Thus, its normal maximum Essence rating is 12. (However, it can theoretically be as high 24)

Wraiths accidently got cut out of MiTS, but can be found on Steve Kenson's (the author of MiTS) website here

Corpselights now have a Force rating, Mortax, and are treated as spirits.
Body = Force
Quickness = Force + 5
No Strength or Charisma
Intelligence = Force - 3
Willpower = Force
Essence = (2d6, Max 24 due to Essence drain power)A (the text contradicts the written stats).

Ya know, I think that actually makes both of them even harder to deal with.

In an inadvertent bump of this thread, I found out that Wraiths are on p 102 of Survival of the Fittest 2062, much to my surprise.