Toa
Mar 16 2005, 04:31 PM
Ok, new edition, big changes. The topic of the ED crossover has been briefly mentioned. Let's get dirty...
What about the future of the crossover? Will Immortal Elves be suppressed in SR4, or will they continue to prosper? Will Dragons still battle over ancient schemes, or will they turn to more current politics?
Or will the ED crossover be even more obvious? We haven't seen anything of Windlings and Obsidimen in the current information but... who knows?
Pthgar
Mar 16 2005, 04:35 PM
Having no real info at all, I'm going to go on record as saying that there will be at least the same level of Crossover info if not less. I suspect the trend is to make SR more accessable to new players, all the ED/SR stuff (as much as I personally love it) doesn't help that.
That being said, I think that the metaplot of the GDs and IEs hiding a coming apocalypse will be kept. It's just too good for conspiracy theories.
Sandoval Smith
Mar 16 2005, 05:09 PM
I recall reading somewhere that no Obsidimen survived the fifth age, and that likely no T'skrang did either. I think that the direct references to ED will be played down (the GDs and IEs will still be around of course, but I think there will be less emphasis on the coming Horrors. The Sixth World is still quite early in the mana cycle).
I rather hope that they don't do anything too radical that might mess up the year 7864 campaign I'm running.
Smed
Mar 16 2005, 05:03 PM
I like the Earthdawn Crossover info in Shadowrun, but I like it used very sparingly in the background, and very vague.
Jrayjoker
Mar 16 2005, 06:11 PM
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith) |
I recall reading somewhere that no Obsidimen survived the fifth age, and that likely no T'skrang did either. I think that the direct references to ED will be played down (the GDs and IEs will still be around of course, but I think there will be less emphasis on the coming Horrors. The Sixth World is still quite early in the mana cycle).
I rather hope that they don't do anything too radical that might mess up the year 7864 campaign I'm running. |
Is that when it is?????
Bandwidthoracle
Mar 16 2005, 06:34 PM
I really hope they drop the whole Earthdawn crossover. It is neat now but when I was a new GM it was the most frusterating thing in the whole world.
Sandoval Smith
Mar 16 2005, 08:22 PM
QUOTE (Jrayjoker) |
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith @ Mar 16 2005, 11:09 AM) | I recall reading somewhere that no Obsidimen survived the fifth age, and that likely no T'skrang did either. I think that the direct references to ED will be played down (the GDs and IEs will still be around of course, but I think there will be less emphasis on the coming Horrors. The Sixth World is still quite early in the mana cycle).
I rather hope that they don't do anything too radical that might mess up the year 7864 campaign I'm running. |
Is that when it is?????
|
Yep. Welcome to the far side of the mana cycle.
Enkeli
Mar 16 2005, 09:00 PM
These are just my two "monetary units" or do you prefer
?
If they`re gonna take on more ED elements in SR, i would like to see more and more adepts entering the picture since all of the characters in ED we`re Adepts(in a way) or Mages.
This would offcourse make SR more than different, but it would kinda fit.
Paul
Mar 16 2005, 08:58 PM
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith) |
I recall reading somewhere that no Obsidimen survived the fifth age, and that likely no T'skrang did either. |
Yet....so far....
hahnsoo
Mar 17 2005, 07:50 AM
QUOTE (Paul) |
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith @ Mar 16 2005, 01:09 PM) | I recall reading somewhere that no Obsidimen survived the fifth age, and that likely no T'skrang did either. |
Yet....so far....
|
They could all be in a liferock at the bottom of Antarctica. There's a buried city on that continent, according to Target: Wastelands.
Bandwidthoracle
Mar 17 2005, 07:59 AM
QUOTE (Enkeli) |
If they`re gonna take on more ED elements in SR, i would like to see more and more adepts entering the picture since all of the characters in ED we`re Adepts(in a way) or Mages. This would offcourse make SR more than different, but it would kinda fit. |
Wouldn't it kinda kill the cyberpunkish feel if magic wasn't scary and rare?
Making everyone mages (or pushing twards being just fantasy with guns) is pretty much the only thing FanPro could do to make me sad enough to quit.
Enkeli
Mar 17 2005, 08:06 AM
QUOTE (Bandwidthoracle) |
QUOTE (Enkeli) | If they`re gonna take on more ED elements in SR, i would like to see more and more adepts entering the picture since all of the characters in ED we`re Adepts(in a way) or Mages. This would offcourse make SR more than different, but it would kinda fit. |
Wouldn't it kinda kill the cyberpunkish feel if magic wasn't scary and rare? Making everyone mages (or pushing twards being just fantasy with guns) is pretty much the only thing FanPro could do to make me sad enough to quit.
|
Indeed it would, but that was just an "idea".
If the mana cycle thing is true(and it is)and we`re going up, then there are gonna be heck of lot more mages and adepts around.
hahnsoo
Mar 17 2005, 07:58 AM
Although I believe even in ED, adepts (magically actives, all PCs were adepts) only made up 1 percent of the population, just like in SR.
fistandantilus4.0
Mar 17 2005, 08:56 AM
I think that it was slightly higher siince it was jsut past the highpoint of the cycle. But I don't have a reference for that, so I could be wrong. But I don't think it was anymore than 2%. It's just that all PC's were adepts.
Jrayjoker
Mar 17 2005, 03:04 PM
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
I think that it was slightly higher siince it was jsut past the highpoint of the cycle. But I don't have a reference for that, so I could be wrong. But I don't think it was anymore than 2%. It's just that all PC's were adepts. |
Everybody has to have an edge...
Because we play PCs with high skills and big mojo we tend to think that the whole city is populated with similarly skilled and mojoed people. This is not the case. Most of them are just lambs being led to the slaughter when compared to the runners.
Garland
Mar 17 2005, 03:59 PM
I don't think 5 years should have much effect on even this apparently highly-accelerated mana cycle. Unless there's some magical wackiness going on in the 5 years we don't know about yet. The last run-up to the Scourge was like a thousand years.
Smed
Mar 17 2005, 04:31 PM
The mana cycle covers such a long period of time that 5 years is negligable, assuming that the increase in mana is gradual and unifornm and does not have sudden jumps.
ThreeGee
Mar 17 2005, 04:38 PM
QUOTE |
assuming that the increase in mana is gradual and unifornm and does not have sudden jumps. |
Which we know from both Shadowrun and Earthdawn is not the case.
Toa
Mar 17 2005, 05:21 PM
QUOTE (hahnsoo) |
Although I believe even in ED, adepts (magically actives, all PCs were adepts) only made up 1 percent of the population, just like in SR. |
IIRC it was 10%. And that's just for general population. I remember an orc war band that consisted of 50% adepts.
Garland
Mar 17 2005, 06:00 PM
QUOTE (ThreeGee) |
QUOTE | assuming that the increase in mana is gradual and unifornm and does not have sudden jumps. |
Which we know from both Shadowrun and Earthdawn is not the case.
|
Well, from Earthdawn we know that there can be sudden stops.
ThreeGee
Mar 17 2005, 06:06 PM
And we know from Shadowrun that there can be sudden jumps, there have been two in the last 50 years.
CanvasBack
Mar 17 2005, 08:01 PM
I kind of hope that when the Matrix suddenly goes down, that the IEs experience something akin to Krystal Nacht. Not regular elves, just the IEs. I think the dragons should be concentrating on the moment they're in, the present and work their machinations from that point into the future. The past is the past and honestly, I like the obsidimen as much as I do Immortal Elves, which is to say, not at all. Earthdawn is part of a separate company now, I don't think Fan Pro wants the additional complication of negotiating over copyrights to mar SR4s release. Just my 2
.
Garland
Mar 17 2005, 08:32 PM
Sorry. I like both the IEs and the GDs. Let 'em keep on keepin' on, I say.
I think the amount of crossover is just about at the right level right now.
hermit
Mar 17 2005, 09:08 PM
I agree with Garland. I dion't really like all they have done with IEs, but I don't like some things about other areas of the game either. But without IEs adn GDs, SR would miss somehing. They should not increase it too much, but ... well, they should not simply write them out either.
CanvasBack
Mar 17 2005, 09:16 PM
QUOTE (Garland) |
Sorry. I like both the IEs and the GDs. Let 'em keep on keepin' on, I say.
I think the amount of crossover is just about at the right level right now. |
Ok ok...
But I'm making it my personal mission for a character of mine to invent a cost effective sonic weapon that can shatter glass if obsidimen start popping up.
Grinder
Mar 17 2005, 09:11 PM
I never like the whole Immortal Nazi Elf thing, but dragons are kinda cool. They add a real big fantasy feeling to the cyberpunk-world of SR, so they should be kept in.
hermit
Mar 17 2005, 09:12 PM
QUOTE |
But I'm making it my personal mission for a character of mine to invent a cost effective sonic weapon that can shatter glass if obsidimen start popping up. |
HAHAHAHAHA!
Honestly, your character should start searching out old, forgotten US military bases then. For all I know, there are already prototypes in 2005 ...
That'd surely make for some fun runs, if your group pulls along. You don't have to tell them what your character is looking for, even ... just invoke some idea of a great treasure they can sell for heap of Japanese currency units.
Garland
Mar 17 2005, 09:14 PM
QUOTE (CanvasBack) |
QUOTE (Garland @ Mar 17 2005, 03:32 PM) | Sorry. I like both the IEs and the GDs. Let 'em keep on keepin' on, I say.
I think the amount of crossover is just about at the right level right now. |
Ok ok...
But I'm making it my personal mission for a character of mine to invent a cost effective sonic weapon that can shatter glass if obsidimen start popping up.
|
And, to show we're all chummers here, I'll say that even as an ED GM, I'm not real fond of the obsidimen and don't miss them particularly in SR. Too weird and alien. Now t'skrang, on the other hand...
ThreeGee
Mar 17 2005, 09:28 PM
Sprite Rites Now!
Crimsondude 2.0
Mar 17 2005, 09:33 PM
Or the sonic gun from SOTA64...
brightlight
Mar 18 2005, 05:18 AM
I really think that the separation between ED and SR is good right now, and they should not be brought back together. When ED was first released everyone was smacked around the head with very broad "go buy Earthdawn to find out more about the magical history of the world" hints.
I read that FanPro (or Wizkids) now own ED again, but that LRGames still write the story etc. I noticed a reference to spell matrices in SOTA: 2064, but it was very light and seemed to be in there for the old school fans of both systems.
Sandoval Smith
Mar 18 2005, 05:15 AM
Since the mana cycle is supposed to take several thousand years, and the Sixth World is still pretty early on in it, I think it would be ill advised to get too heavy into ED metaplots. I'm hoping that the threat of Horror Shenanigans will be one of the things that kind of gets wrapped up in the intervening five years. Maybe Dunkelzahn gives them a good slap upside the head, and they all stay put in their home plane until another few centuries into the mana cycle.
Kagetenshi
Mar 18 2005, 05:25 AM
I do hope that the crossover continues to evolve and strengthen without becoming overt.
~J
mfb
Mar 18 2005, 05:24 AM
i don't mind hints of it. i don't mind it showing up once in a while in the novels. but SR doesn't need another friggin' Harlequinn's Back.
Kagetenshi
Mar 18 2005, 05:48 AM
Sorta agreed. I love Harlequin's Back, but it should be at least another half-decade before anything else like it happens.
~J
mfb
Mar 18 2005, 05:51 AM
eh. i read through it, and i honestly don't see what's so great. a few interesting themes, but poorly-planned and muchly railroaded. it should have been a novel.
Sandoval Smith
Mar 18 2005, 06:23 AM
If you have a good GM running it, and when they run it, you don't know that it's 'Harlequinn's Back,' it's a blast. When I got my hands on a copy and read through it, I was a bit disapointed.
Kanada Ten
Mar 18 2005, 06:36 AM
Same with Harlequin [the first] though... actually same with most of the adventures.
mfb
Mar 18 2005, 06:38 AM
s'why i like the adventure tracks. so much easier to adapt. and, added bonus? fewer NPC stats to be mangled.
Kanada Ten
Mar 18 2005, 06:57 AM
Tracked can be good, agreed, better than modules for the most part. But at some point I'd rather have YotC style books... Hey, I just realized YotC is a location book (sure, temporal location, but still...).
mfb
Mar 18 2005, 07:02 AM
i'm very pleased with the SotA books, and hope they become the backbone of the SR release schedule with SR4. i mean, nine times out of ten, there's something in there for everybody.
Kagetenshi
Mar 18 2005, 07:23 AM
*Hiss* SotA book (singular) is just fine. SotA books (plural) is one of the worst things I can imagine for the system. Instant power creep, just add water.
~J
mfb
Mar 18 2005, 07:35 AM
possibly. however, if you expand the concept to include things like politics, gangs, locations, etcetera, it becomes less scary.
Kagetenshi
Mar 18 2005, 07:35 AM
Admittedly two data points is one too few to start building trends from, but neither SotA:2063 nor SotA:2064 are the kinds of things that I would want repeated, much as I liked them (well, '63 at least. I haven't read most of '64 yet.).
~J
Critias
Mar 18 2005, 07:41 AM
Weird. They're two of my favorite books. A chapter for everyone, a chapter for no one in particular, at least as much world-view info and background as rules, all sorts of mini plot hooks and potentials for games, plenty of shadowtalk...what's not to love?
Kagetenshi
Mar 18 2005, 07:56 AM
Power creep. Newer, more powerful gear and magic. All well and good in a single book, but in a recurring sourcebook, especially a yearly one?
~J
Critias
Mar 18 2005, 07:51 AM
You call it power creep, I call it the name of the book -- SotA. It's always been a part of Shadowrun, the scramble to keep up with the tech curve. The books just enforce that, in their way; if you want to have the latest toys, you want to have the latest toys. It takes something that's difficult to create IC and creates it OOC, for us. I kinda dig that, actually, as long as there's something for everyone (and I think there has been).
Garland
Mar 18 2005, 03:11 PM
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith) |
I'm hoping that the threat of Horror Shenanigans will be one of the things that kind of gets wrapped up in the intervening five years. Maybe Dunkelzahn gives them a good slap upside the head, and they all stay put in their home plane until another few centuries into the mana cycle. |
I find it hard to believe that anyone wants plots ended once and for all. Myself, I would like to see plots renewed; changed up a bit, rather than just being tied off and abandoned.
mfb
Mar 18 2005, 04:00 PM
nope. i want the horror thing pretty much ended, all the way. tired of 'em.
Garland
Mar 18 2005, 03:58 PM
Sorry, I like a little nihilistic, otherworldly evil from time to time. It appears we must agree to disagree.
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