Dumpshock Forums > Sioux Wildcats

Crimson Jack

Mar 23 2005, 10:04 PM

I'm building an Ex-Sioux Wildcat for a player in the new game I'm writing for my group. Everyone is playing pre-generated characters, so I'm 'rolling' up one now. I've decided that he's going to be an Ork Amerind and specialize in projectile weapons mainly.

The part I'm a little unsure of is what would the stats of a Wildcat be like? Anyone care to toss out a few Attribute and Skills that should be imperative? I'm building all of the characters with 135 BP on the point system, so there are some to work with.

Thanks for the advice in advance.

Nikoli

Mar 23 2005, 10:02 PM

Biotech, maybe spec in First aid, Wilderness Survival, some sort of MOP background skill.

I assume that NAN, CAS and UCAS militaries are built on the bones of former US military training regimen, so those would be skills you'd see in every soldier in varying degrees.

With the wonders of the chipjack, you can have the more esoteric skills, chemistry, botany, para-whatevers, engnieering, etc. on chips that the soldiers slot when needed, if needed, same with languages while in the field. I'd shy away from chipping skills that are in flux like Smuggler Routes, SR haunts, etc. those, imo shouldn't even be available as chips or better yet, have some type of SOTA rule applied to them.

Paul

Mar 23 2005, 10:15 PM

I'd think that your character would need a few essential concepts:

Indian. Not necassarily Sioux, but that'd likely be helpful. Not being Sioux could be a good source of friction, and agreat plot hook; impetus to dwelve into the characterization.
Spec Ops have a commonality: Fit men, who are above average intellectually, and have a common background. Screening, screening, screening. Physical. Psychological. Security. Credit. You name it they are closely scrutinized people. Only the best are supposed to make it.
Patriotism: Most, not all of course, specops people have a greater than average love for their country, or something similar. They are company men. They understand the system, howit operates, and what their place in it is.

As far as number crunching goes, I'd take a look at what you are goign to be, and then specialize as best you can.

DocMortand

Mar 23 2005, 10:15 PM

Also, if your GM is using the Martial Arts rules be aware there is a special "Wildcat" Martial Art that you would have been trained in.

For beginning of stats, find a SWAT member stat in one of the books and use that - a good place to dig that up is in Wake of the Comet, which has several uber-Indians in it that you can look at as a base to start from.

Crimson Jack

Mar 23 2005, 10:28 PM

QUOTE (DocMortand)

Also, if your GM is using the Martial Arts rules be aware there is a special "Wildcat" Martial Art that you would have been trained in.

For beginning of stats, find a SWAT member stat in one of the books and use that - a good place to dig that up is in Wake of the Comet, which has several uber-Indians in it that you can look at as a base to start from.

I am the GM. I'm creating pre-generated characters for the group and I'm the one who needs the advice.

I don't have Wake of the Comet actually. One of the few books not in the collection.

DocMortand

Mar 23 2005, 10:32 PM

Oh. Is he awakened at all? Or a cyber munchie? I can go pull up something if you can give me a few more details.

Crimson Jack

Mar 23 2005, 10:32 PM

Okay, sure. I thought that he would be Sioux, to make things nice and copacetic. If it'd be plausible, I'd like him to be mostly pure Essence-wise (so no cyber). Thought he'd rely on a lot on skills and bioware. He's a mundane. Generalist. That help?

edit: grammar... copacetic. Sheesh.

Vuron

Mar 23 2005, 11:18 PM

Hrmm First I assume that you are using the standard point system rather than the eleite character one from MJLBB

Basic Mundane Orc Hoopkicker

Body: 8
Quickness: 6
Strength: 7
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 3
Willpower: 6
Attribute Totals: 60 Points

Active Skills
Athletics: 5
Stealth: 5
MA: Widcat: 5 with Close Combat and Vicious Blow Manuvers
Edged Weapons (Combat Knife): 3/5
Projectile Weapons (Pull Bows): 5/7
Assault Rifle: 4
Pistols: 2
Submachine Gun: 2
Heavy Weapons: 2
Biotech (First Aid): 2/4
Demolitions: 3
Electronics: 2
Small Unit Tactics: 3
Etiquette (Tribal): 2/4
Intimidation: 2
Car: 3
Bike: 2
Active Skill Points: 60

Or some combination thereof if Survival skills are going to be in then I'd likely lower some skills or replace Small Unit Tactics if that's not a factor.

Augmentations
Cyberware
Boosted Reflexes 3

Bioware
Muscle Augmentation 1
Muscle Toner 2
Suprathyroid Gland
Synthacardium 2
Orthoskin 3

Leaving rough 75,000 in other augments weapons vehicles, lifestyles and contacts.

Final Attribute Totals
Body 9
Quickness 9
Strength 9
Charisma 3
Intelligence 3
Willpower 6
Essence 3.2
Reaction 7(9)
Inititiative +3d6

Sure he's not going to get 3 initiative passes every time but he's pretty buff and pretty hard hitting at range and in close.

Crimson Jack

Mar 24 2005, 01:33 AM

Also, anyone know what standard issue firearms the Wildcats would use? I want to give him a proficiency with some sort of firearm, regardless of the fact that he'll be primarily a bow user.

toturi

Mar 24 2005, 01:40 AM

From what I gather from sourcebooks, Wildcats do not specialise in a single specific firearm but have proficiency in as many firearms as they can. I would think that your Wildcat should have proficiency in Assault Rifles at the very least.

SykoBear

Mar 24 2005, 02:29 AM

Just to jump in, there's some fluff text in Shadows of North America, under the Sioux Nations about the Wildcats. They apparently emphasise a lot on skills training rather than mojo or cyber.

Off the top of my head, you'll need paratrooper training (Parachutes), wilderness survival (Survival), a decent spectrum of firearms, and their in-house martial arts named....Wildcat (available in the nearest Cannon Companion).

Someone with a copy of SONA to refer to please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edward

Mar 24 2005, 03:19 AM

My biggest problem with crating a special forces soldure would be that I would expect him to be good with pistols, SMGs, ARs, shotguns and rifles and competent with heavy weapons and launch weapons. That’s a lot of skill points.

Edward

Fortune

Mar 24 2005, 04:40 AM

It's almost impossible to make an believable experienced Special Forces person, especially from among the elites like Firewatch or Wildcats, with normal (or even close to normal) chargen rules.

Smiley

Mar 24 2005, 06:06 AM

The easiest way to make a character like this is with half karma and half resources from your last character. That way, you'll have a bit more leeway than you would with just a starting character. It's next to impossible to make a believeable starting ex-Wildcat with just chargen rules because any Wildcat is going to be a seasoned veteran.

Just a thought.

[EDIT] And, of course, Fortune beat me to the punch. Bastard.

toturi

Mar 24 2005, 06:00 AM

QUOTE (Fortune)

It's almost impossible to make an believable experienced Special Forces person, especially from among the elites like Firewatch or Wildcats, with normal (or even close to normal) chargen rules.

True. A more believable elite force PC would require something like the high level chargen in MJLBB.

Critias

Mar 24 2005, 06:23 AM

Or 150 or so karma.

Fortune

Mar 24 2005, 06:58 AM

QUOTE (Smiley)

And, of course, Fortune beat me to the punch. Bastard.

By close to an hour and a half!

Smiley

Mar 24 2005, 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Fortune)

QUOTE (Smiley @ Mar 24 2005, 05:06 PM)

And, of course, Fortune beat me to the punch. Bastard.

By close to an hour and a half!

Jeez, rub it in, why don't you?

CanvasBack

Mar 24 2005, 06:21 PM

Does anybody ever play a washout from such a progarm?

It seems like SpecOps groups turn down more applicants than they accept, and those applicants don't come to them with absolutely zero skills. Might even be the source of friction that leads to a character leaving the military and running the shadows.

Apathy

Mar 24 2005, 07:11 PM

Just a suggestion, but I'd swap edged/knife for polearms/fixed bayonet. A special forces guy would be trained in knives, too, but bayonet is one of the first things you learn in basic.

Apathy

Mar 24 2005, 07:17 PM

I put together some generic NPC soldier stats for a campaign I ran once.

[ Spoiler ]

Austere Emancipator

Mar 24 2005, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (CanvasBack)

It seems like SpecOps groups turn down more applicants than they accept, and those applicants don't come to them with absolutely zero skills.

Very true. For example, the 1st SFOD-Delta mostly invites soldiers, sailors and airmen they see as having desirable skills and backgrounds. The people who attend the selection course include some of the best of the Rangers, Special Forces, SEALs, etc., and only ~7% or less are likely to pass.

Apathy: The basic soldiers should probably all be specialized in Assault Rifles to their personal weapon (in this case Ares Alpha). The Cannon for soldiers in armor units should probably be a specialization of Gunnery, not Heavy Weapons.

DrJest

Mar 24 2005, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (CanvasBack)

Does anybody ever play a washout from such a progarm?

It seems like SpecOps groups turn down more applicants than they accept, and those applicants don't come to them with absolutely zero skills. Might even be the source of friction that leads to a character leaving the military and running the shadows.

I played one who washed out for political reasons - it was the sting that sent him into the shadows.

Apathy

Mar 24 2005, 08:03 PM

[edit] deleted.

Paul

Mar 24 2005, 10:31 PM

People wash out all the time. In fact more washout, usually, than make it. Just watch a TLC or Discovery Channel Special on the SEALs or the Rangers or what not.

Crimson Jack

Mar 25 2005, 12:42 AM

QUOTE (Critias)

Or 150 or so karma.

Well, I'm building the character with 135 build points, which I realize is not the same as adding another 150 karma to the character. But, it'll have to do.

Fortune

Mar 25 2005, 12:58 AM

There are definitely quite a number of washouts, but they'd have relatively high skills in numerous areas to begin with, even before washing out. People don't usually washout for lack of skill, but other reasons like temperment, lack of Willpower or Fortitude, etc.

kevyn668

Mar 25 2005, 12:59 AM

QUOTE (DrJest)

QUOTE (CanvasBack @ Mar 24 2005, 06:21 PM)

Does anybody ever play a washout from such a progarm?

It seems like SpecOps groups turn down more applicants than they accept, and those applicants don't come to them with absolutely zero skills. Might even be the source of friction that leads to a character leaving the military and running the shadows.

I played one who washed out for political reasons - it was the sting that sent him into the shadows.

Almost all of the mercs I've made were were spec ops washouts.

FlakJacket

Mar 25 2005, 01:48 AM

Corporate Punishment has the write-up for a Tir Ghost team so as long as you don't subscribe to the elves uber alles school of thought they'd be comparable to a Wildcat team I'd think.

Apathy

Mar 25 2005, 04:15 AM

QUOTE

There are definitely quite a number of washouts, but they'd have relatively high skills in numerous areas to begin with, even before washing out. People don't usually washout for lack of skill, but other reasons like temperment, lack of Willpower or Fortitude, etc.

I'd imagine that the most common reason for washing out would be minor injury. Broken ankles after a bad parachute drop, that sort of thing. So the washout might be just as good as the one that goes the distance, just a little less lucky...

Puck Wildhorse, M.D.

Mar 25 2005, 08:29 PM

I would include skills like navigation, car, first aid, parachuting, diving, at least 3 languages used in the western hemisphere, stealth, demolitions, and athletics.

Possible additional skills include instruction (he could have been a DI), thrown weapon, any martial art or brawling, any melee weapon skill, gunnery, launched weapons, rotor craft or winged vehicle piloting.

He would have at least one of the following skills at the highest rating you can get: Assault Rifle, SMG, Rifle or heavy weapons. And he would have the associated buid/repair skill to go with his weapon choice.

Maimer

Mar 28 2005, 10:07 PM

Don't ask how I managed to keep ahold of this after so many years, but here is the write up that FASA had with SR1.

COMMENTARY:
The Siux Wildcats are considered by most experts to be among the best special forces uni in the world, perhaps the very best. Their identity is known to only a hadful of offices who call the Wildcats for National emergencies (or when the Wildcats need to work off a little steam).
The wildcats rely on skill and native ability, rather than cybernetic enhancement. The few enhancements they do recieve only make them that much better.
Wildcats are trained to live and work alone or in small teams, making them excellent shadowrunners.

Attributes:
Body: 5
Quickness: 6
Strength: 5
Charisma: 2
Intelligence: 6
Willpower: 6
Essence: 5
Reaction: 6 (+1d6)

Skills:
Stealth: 4
Athletics: 5
Armed Combat: 3
Edged Weapons: 5
Unarmed Combat: 4
Firearms: 6
Demolitions: 3
Demolitions (Plastics): 5
Military Theory: 2
Military Theory (Tactics): 4

Dice Pools:
Combat: 9

Cyberware:
Optical Vision Mag 3
Hearing Amplification
Hearing Dampner
Smartlink

Gear:
Ingram SmartGun (5 clips APDS)
Preditor II (concealed holster, silencer, 4 clips APDS)
Ares Monosword
Survival Knife
Plastic Explosives, 8 pounds XII
4 Radio Detinators
4 Timers
Harley Scorpion
Secure Long Coat
Medkit
4 Stim Patches (rating 4)
Earplug Phone

Keep in mind that this is all SR1 rules and gear. Some changes will be necessary to the skills to make it all compliant with SR3 rules.

Fortune

Mar 28 2005, 11:16 PM

That's pretty close to a starting character, and somewhat unbelieveable as a member of the best-of-the-best elite units. Closer than you could get with SR3 though.

Lantzer

Mar 28 2005, 11:08 PM

Good job, Maimer. And thanks, FASA. I'm enjoying the mental image of a 6th world elite military Amerind commando fighting in a trenchcoat, and carrying a sword.

EDIT: Oh yes, and the Hawg. Can't forget the Hawg.

Grinder

Mar 28 2005, 11:26 PM

I expected some more cyber. Like boosted reflexes.

Paul

Mar 29 2005, 12:47 AM

Which is why most of the write ups they have currently reflecting SpecOps people are pretty heavily underpowered, if not worse.

Now you could easily argue that some Speial Operations just don't rate the stuff-after all ArmyRangers (Just to name one possible example) could be considered right on the edger of the Special Operations bubble. How many of them are there? That's a lot of wetware to fork up the cash for.

Now say Delta, or a SEAL team or two-well I think you'd see a metric asston of modifications to make sure that any that weren't magically active were the equivalents of human tanks. I also see them making heavy use of magic, of all types, and drones. A properly equipped drone could add the fire power of armored fighting vehicle at half the cost and size.

Given the state of affairs in the sixth world, I'd also say they'd have some hella casualties and turn over rates over the last few decades. My bet is that list of Medal of Honor recipients has grown and then some.

Maimer

Mar 29 2005, 04:23 AM

When I first heard about the Wildcats in game I would have expected a lot more cyber. Just the way they where described. But then again, that is a good starting point to get to what you want / need in your game.

Everything I have read about them says that they tend to be light on the cyber and rely more on skills. Which is fine; especially under the SR3 combat rules. I would add a few more skills in a more "military" fashion or more survival oriented and leave the cyber as is. If you want him a little faster, then I would go the bio-ware route. Boosed reflexes would be a good option.

Glad I could help out.

Still surprised that I actually found that information.

Grinder

Mar 29 2005, 10:23 AM

The main problem by building a specop-char is the limitation in points. I tried seceral times to build one with 127 or 135 points, but the chras usually lack a lot of skills and/or money to buy enough cyber (and i'm sure specops have a whole bunch of it, mostly beta grade). When building such a char one should take 200 points or give the new char 100 karma. Specops are one of the best opponents out there, experiecend and dangerous.

Critias

Mar 29 2005, 10:24 AM

And, worst of all, they hunt in packs.

Grinder

Mar 29 2005, 07:20 PM

With magical support. And tactic.

Vuron

Mar 29 2005, 07:37 PM

Personally I'm of the opinion that base shadowrun characters represent high end ex military operator types and thier corporate counterparts. Generic ex UCAS military types are going to be close to 90 point characters. Granted I'd likely make truly heavy end operators (6th world counterparts to Delta One, SAS etc) higher that base 125 point characters (using becks I'd say roughly 500 karma types) I'm very hesitant to say that they are automatically 750-100 karma types which I generally reserve for the comparitive freaks of nature.

I'm not saying that Spec Ops shouldn't be really skilled characters (generally with a wide variety of active skills in the 5-6 range) they shouldn't neccesarily be supremely competent in all walks of life. I mean all 6s for attributes is only 72 points (and very very few would rate all 6s in attributes) and 70 active skill points would be a very hefty amount of active skill points. Even if you assume maximum resource selections for cybered characters you can make a totally insane base character for 150-175 points.

Unless your standard grunt is much closer to 125 character points than I generally would assume then I think you can get a not quite 1337 spec ops veteran under the base character creation rules.

Apathy

Mar 29 2005, 11:16 PM

What is this missing?

[ Spoiler ]

Vuron

Mar 29 2005, 11:25 PM

QUOTE (Apathy)

What is this missing?

[ Spoiler ]

Well technically I believe that you'd need to purchase 2 manuvers for MA:wildcat.

I personally don't like defaulting when I use SMGs but that's a personal decision. Other than that I'd say that's definitely workable as a mundane inductee. I'd imagine that they'd likely look towards some sort of augmentation in most concepts and for the character description of the initial poster it's missing projectile weapons

Personally that type of character in a 8 man team with some specialist in the group would likely frighten the hell out of most shadowrunners. Throw in a physad and shaman and things get very bad very fast.

That's not even getting into thier likely having rigger assault helicopter support in some 2060s variant of the pavehawk.

FlakJacket

Mar 29 2005, 11:41 PM

I'd knock polearms/bayonet down to 1/3. Level three is adequately trained in it and they're more likely to have just picked it up in regular basic training before they tried out for special forces. I can't seem them spending any extra time on it.

And yeah, no SMG skill? Any time you need something small and concealable for undercover work you'll be having to work off of quickness and with the opposition you'd be facing you'll be screwed.

I'd consider dropping the motorboat and moving it into car. Since you don't have any other aquatic related skills apart from swimming as part of athletics, just say that there's a seperate section that specialises with water related things.

Apathy

Mar 30 2005, 01:34 AM

QUOTE

I'd knock polearms/bayonet down to 1/3. Level three is adequately trained in it and they're more likely to have just picked it up in regular basic training before they tried out for special forces. I can't seem them spending any extra time on it.

Agreed.

QUOTE

And yeah, no SMG skill? Any time you need something small and concealable for undercover work you'll be having to work off of quickness and with the opposition you'd be facing you'll be screwed.

I was thinking of them more along the lines of Rangers or Force Recon rather than Delta Force, so I wasn't expecting them to be undercover. How often do militaries even use SMGs? In reality, they'd probably have a 3 in it, to denote some cross-training in Uzi's and such, but I wouldn't expect it to come up often. (oh-and I'll just say again that I hate that a guy that can shoot an AR can't shoot either a rifle or an SMG)

QUOTE

I'd consider dropping the motorboat and moving it into car. Since you don't have any other aquatic related skills apart from swimming as part of athletics, just say that there's a seperate section that specialises with water related things.

Just wanted him to be minimally proficient in all basic transportation.

I should also give him Parachuting 4 or 5. And spec ops guys would probably have one or more of the following: Bonus Attribute-Will, Bonus Attribute-Body, High Pain Tolerence, Toughness, Perceptive, Sense of Direction.

Even without the parachuting and the edges, I'm already up to 136 points. Add in the cost of the equipment, etc. and we're looking at about 150 point build.