Now, I just read worlds without end,and I have to say, that goddamned if that is canon.

I mean, look at the way these immoral elves act. Really look. Are these the greatest minds of our history? Are they the minds that form plots that have changed the world? WIthout these great people, would humans still be living in wooden huts? I mean, good goddess, these people act like they were still in high school, and the agnest that runs off of them makes Buffy seem like a level headed drama.

So, really what great things did immoral elves do?And what great things did humans do?

Did the Elves make Rome?
Was Jesus an Elf?
Did the elves make the printing press?
Was JFK an elf?
Did an elf kill JFK?
Was the internet made by an elf?
Did elves make role playing games?
Was shadowrun made by elves?

No. All of those were Lofwyr in disguise

All but the last were the result of IEs bragging about "the good old days" and ticking off some nearby humans who then set out to one-up the "floofy pointy-eared jerks."

Shh! If you discuss this too openly the IEs will come and take you away...

I tend to ignore IE plotlines myself. I prefer machievellian corps.

I think this goes to one of those, who cares if it's cannon, I'm the GM and that's not how it happend.

I'd tend to think that at least some of the elves were involved in history, they may be highschoolers but with the level of knowledge and power they have, they could still pull some stuff off.

Playing devils advocot since 2052,
Mortax

I'm not particularly opposed to IE's, but, really, they're hardly immortal. Sure, they don't age, sure, they're all 70th level Initiates, but you put a bullet through their brain and they're still as dead as anyone else would be. I'm absolutely positive that the IE's that have survived to this point are some of the greatest cowards on earth. Sure they're hot stuff now, but during the downcycle? They'd be unaging cannon fodder, easy prey for the countless religious persecutions that sweep through practically everywhere every now and then, and pretty much F**kin screwed if they got caught in the wrong war at the wrong time. I'm guessing maybe 10% of all IE's from the 4th world could have survived to the 6th if they were really as active as they like to claim. Therefore, they were probably in the most remote regions of the globe for most of the 5th world, scavenging what they could and hiding from anybody who so much as looked like they'd think pointy ears meant 'kill me please!' I can see them emerging in the 19th-20th centuries, when the realized the mana cycle would start up soon, and the political climate had eased enough so that they could explain away their 'deformities' and conceivably accumulate a power base.

And, hey, if you were hiding in a cave for the past 5000 years, wouldn't you want to claim that you invented the cuisinart, built rome, and wrote Shakespeare's plays for him? Who's gonna prove you wrong? And hey, why not act like a big sulky teenager while you're at it! It sure impresses the ladies.

Like that Urdli chap.

Al Gore invented the Internet.

But Al Gore is also an immortal elf!

If you want to know the truth about IE's, look at David Bowie on the cover of The Realities Tour DVD.

Magic existed durning the 5th world.

Your logic is inescapable...

I made no comment as to whether [Immortal Elves] made sense or not, simply that canon states that magic existed during the downcycle. It was simply far more difficult to manipulate and in less supply. Your logic skill are all too powerful for me.

If you're asking why they didn't age even a little bit, I might suggest blood magic. They killed and drank the blood of dragons, sacrificed followers, drained the ancient power sites, devoured the hearts of other immortals, and generally acted like the leeches they are to survive.

This is true. But with less magic, they should have all been like...sickly and frail, or something.

See my edit.

Okay, so magic existed during the 5th world, it just took a crapload of effort to do and probably hurt like a bitch when the drain hit (I know nothing of ED spellcasting, so I'm working off of the SR3 system here). I wonder if the mana level drops like it rises, so at the peak of the downcycle even grade 70+ initiates can do jack all with the lightest magic in their arsenal? I still doubt that outside of a few errant mana spikes the IE's could do more than strain themselves to breaking lighting a candle with magic. In a spike they could show off a bit, sure, maybe turn on that mask so they don't look so damned weird to the normies, but when they wandered off into a low-mana region the poor mana-starved spell would just puff away.

Even if not, I find it hard to beleive that the IE's could have survived so long by meddling in the affairs of Man. Sooner or later they'd piss off someone with the means to do something about it, and there wouldn't be a convenient manaspike around to save their asses. And Harley didn't strike me as the cowardly type from what I've read of him, no, but I'm also pretty sure he'd be staying out of the way in the 5th world, otherwise he'd be dead. Maybe kept his ear to the ground, financed a bunch of contacts around the known world so he could troubleshoot if the need arose, but mostly kept to himself and out of the way of a history that would grind him to tiny IE bits. There's probably a bunch of horror stories of IE's who thought they could stay arrogant little bastards in the 5th world who got squished spectacularly. Not that the remaining IE's will tell them, they've got to keep up the mystique.

They may well have used Loci, mana batteries, to store more than enough mana to fuel spells such as mask and heal. Things like the Holy Grail, for a top-of-the-head example, may actually be Loci. They simply refuel the mana cell with a few sacrifices or such and continue on. There might have even been periods in which they hibernated like dragons.

From the sound of it, some IE's may have developed a metamagical technique to store or hoard away a certain amount of mana...sort of like an Absorbtion Pool without a time limit, mainly. Maybe.

Unless I am very much mistaken all the IEs have resources other than magic to draw upon in a pinch.

Notably high stats, athletics stealth and weapon skills. That should save them when chatting doesn’t. If all else fails they are probably the fastest runners on earth.

Wether there longevity is mystical or biological I can not say. Canon says there longevity was not damaged by the down cycle in magic so it was ether biological or the mana level never hit 0 or they stored some.

Edward

I'm telling you: David Bowie is an IE.

Don't forget the fringe benefits of being immortal. They could get ALL the munchkinny, rule-breaking items and abilities from THREE different incarnations of the SR rule system AND all the über things from Earthdawn as well

Turn to Goooooooo!
Petrify!!!!!!
Lvl 30! bwahahaha!

Ancient History, once again, you are awsome.
(refferencing you're first post on this thread)

Be damned, someone actually read it.

In the first edition core book there was a quote from Big D along the lines of:

Who knows what fate controlls the world, maybe it's all just a roll of the dice.


I love Big D.