and

SYL

Sustaining a spell offers a bundle of penalties all its own. At +2 TN and +2 Drain, casting successive spells and resisting drain becomes much, much harder. When sustaining two spells, a dead-easy task (TN 2) becomes a Difficult one (TN 6); add just a few situational modifiers, and it becomes even worse.

Considering that a mage only gets 30 spell points to begin with, it's going to be difficult for a mage to start with the package you describe, and he certainly won't be able to afford any sustaining foci without some serious corner-cutting elsewhere. Don't forget that you have to bond those sustaining foci with your starting spell points, and they can only be used for one specific spell without further bonding costs.

Edges, Flaws and Spell Design are all *optional* rules. If you choose to implement them, then you're intending for your game to become higher-powered. If you choose to allow them, don't complain when your characters come out more powerful than before.

You mean "assensing", and the way to avoid it is to not get spotted in the first place. It's just like avoiding a metal detector or cyber scanner.

In Shadowrun Missions, one facility had a wall of natural earth, which made astral projection through it highly difficult. Plus which, astral reconnisance is highly limited in what it can accomplish.

And the techie has higher skills, and a task pool. A techie also can carry more tools than his Intelligence, and doesn't have to risk focus addiction.

Actually, combat mages tend to be deficient in intrusion and social skills, intrusion mages tend to be deficient in social skills and combat power, and face mages tend to be weak in both combat and intrusion. Generalist mages aren't weak in any of those areas, but they're not nearly as good as a dedicated specialist.

If you take a generalist mage, with the spell package you described above, he won't be nearly as good as a social adept at social situations; doesn't have the firepower of a maxed-out sammie; and he can't infiltrate as well as a Covert ops specialist. He's got some edges so he's hardly deficient in those areas, but he can't hold a candle to the experts. He's a strong jack-of-all-trades, that's it.

May I argue with Concentration and first some low force sustaining foci and later in the game with high force sustaining foci?

That´s why I wrote "after some karma". I add "after some cash". I am not talking about force 10 foci.

Edges/Flaws may be optional rules, spell design/modification is IIRC not designed as an optional rule. Even when: it is an "official" optional rule which gives the mages "official" possibilities. And then these "optional" rules are not as limited like the weapon construction rules.

But on the other side all rules are optional, aren´t they?

Even with no Edges & Flaws, no spell modification, there are plenty of extreme powerful things avaiable for the mage. And some GMs think, that these things are crippling the game or there possibilities of designing runs who are a challenge for everyone and have more possibilities than "we have a mage with us, right?". And yes, these GMs normally know the rules good enough.

Thanks for the word. I only have the german books.

But IMHO it is not the same like a MAD or scanner. First: normally I can see them (the scanners). I can have the knowledge where to expect them (for example in the door), I can adapt to them (higher grade ware, special weapons etc). As a mundane, I have no idea, if Mr Johnson or his Sidekick is currently assensing me. Or if I am assensed by an astral mage.

And of course: MADs and scanners are massproduced and can be found anywhere. Another disadvantage for mundanes.

Well, I admit, that SOTA high security areas can be very good protected. But for what price?

Has he? Well, the mage can have one, too. Especially after the last errata. Even if not: the tech can´t fly, control people´s mind, have to invesst massive ressources to turn invisible etc. And at least in my experience the ability to fly is much more worth than 2 additional dices.

I never encountered focus addiction because in many cases low force foci are enough.

A jack of all trades being very close behind the specialists in my experience.

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Well I quit and hope the best for SR4 - Street Magic.

SYL

If they only have low-force sustaining foci, they can't have very useful spells in them; also, regardless of Force, a mage can only have (Int) active foci. That means a max of 6 for a standard starting mage.

As for "later in the game"-- a force-6 sustaining focus has a street cost of 180,000 . How much cash are you handing out in your games, that mages are getting a hold of them so easily?

And there's some extremely powerful things availiable to sammies (Move-by-wire, custom guns, etc.), extremely powerful things availiable to deckers (Fairlight Excaliburs, Agents, etc.), and extremely powerful things availiable to riggers (milspec drones, Battletac IVIS, tactical computers, etc.). Compared to what other archetypes can accomplish, I don't see mages as being very overpowered. Powerful in a specialized way, but they don't hold a candle to the true specialists.

Actually, there's rules for hidden MADs, cyberscanners, and chemsniffers. You won't normally be able to see them. You *can* have the knowledge of where to expect them; but then again, you can also have the knowledge of where to expect an assensing mage to be stationed. I mean, mages aren't super-common. They're going to be stationed in only a few areas; and odds are, those areas are going to be equipped with other devices as well. If you can fool all the other devices and guards, you're probably going to fool the mage as well.

Assensing is also highly limited in what it can do. It can't tell you specifically what cyber someone has (only high/moderate/low essence); it can give you a target's general emotional state and general health, but a good perception test can do that as well. It's not like assensing is some sort of omniscience, where every little detail is revealed. You can get more info with a cyberscanner.

A mage can only have a Task Pool at the cost of Magic points. In general, a mundane is going to have higher skills or attributes (or both) than a mage will; the techie doesn't. The techie not only can fly (what do you think choppers are for? ), he can carry more weapons when flying, add Sensor dice and combat pool to attacks, and so on. Oh, and if he's packing Great Dragon ATGM's, he's packing a lot more firepower than any spell the mage could possibly have.

OK, lemme check something here. You're talking about a mage who's got a force-4 Improved Invisibility focus, a force-1 Levitate focus, Force-4 Silence focus, Force-1 Improved Reflexes focus, and a Detect Firearms 4 focus? That's 13 points, good for focus addiction right off the top.

I just ran a mage in Shadowrun Missions today; a generalist shaman. She couldn't hold a candle to any of the team in their specialites. The troll stomped down guards far better than she could; the face out-talked her every time, and the covert-ops specialist out-sneakied her. She was still useful in a lot of ways-- there are some thing magic can accomplish that nothing else can. But then again, there are plenty of things magic cannot accomplish as well as mundane methods.